I don't know if it will help or not, but I found this discussion clarifying: http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/62387/best-knives

Much depends on personal preference, how you hold the knife, chopping styles, etc. And better knives, if kept sharp, may let you cut in new ways. I grew up with big, heavy knives that you kinda whacked into things. The Japanese ones are light, slice effortlessly, work well with a pinch grip.

Here is a link that might be useful: cheftalk thread

...my DH's fishing fillet knives

Light, strong, fit my hands perfectly, and razor sharp......

I have ONE good knife and love it. It is the Shun Classic and cuts like a dream. Never understood why anyone would spend big money on knives until I bought this one as a trial. I liked Shun better than Wusthof after handling them at the store, just felt better, and fit my cutting style better. DH is a southpaw and loves using the Shun too.

Now, reading through the comments I will definitely be looking into the Victorinox thanks to the price difference, and after growing up in Switzerland using Victorinox army folding knives, I feel confident in their quality and intrigued by their kitchen knife line.

But will I splurge on another Shun as well? Oh, yeeeaaaahhhh.

colin... very informative thread... thank you. Now I realize that I know nothing about what I thought I knew something about. Literally, as I read through that entire cheftalk thread, I felt like some of it was a foreign language.

'' jessicaml - the Spanish made knives are Henckel's budget line, have been for years. The TOL ones are still made in Germany in the same area that Wusthof is. The Asian made stuff is their disposable line and called " Henckels International". ''

I guess I should have specified that my 6" Henckels chef
knife was $30 at Target, definitely not top of the line,
but not a bad knife as an entry level for someone just
beginner to explore nicer cutlery. At the time I thought
it was a splurge & my mom thought I was a crazy knife
snob. ;) My main point was that different grades are often
made in different countries, and someone just learning
might hear that Henckels are good and fall for the
International line.

Especially for your small hands, I have to vote for Shun Classic. I love mine.

Wusthof knives always feel right to me and the 8" Grand Prix (original, not the "II") is my go to knife. I also have a Messermeister santoku that I don't use anymore because the handle is too small and narrow for my grip; since you mention you have small hands that brand might be worth checking out. I bought it some years ago online (and) from Sur La Table but not sure if they still carry 'em.

FYI remodel - yes I buy the car from the dealer I test drove it at if I buy THAT model. Now , of course I don't buy every car I test - but that's entirely different than handling the gear at SLT and then going to buy exactly the same thing from eBay or Amazon. If you were to handle them at the store and decide none of them work for you and buy a brand type they don't have access to - then I'd see no problem with that.

Besides , car dealers aren't exactly the poster child for good buying experiences - even 5 star J.D.P gold std. luxury brands. Anyway, I'm not picking on you per se - but what if everyone had your attitude and fondled the stuff only to buy on the net???

jessicaml- the Henckel Intl. are still pretty good value considering the prices. They are just not same quality (or price) of the forged ones from Germany - and they are not trying to be either.

beekeepers wife - care to elaborate on this:
"I won't buy henckles"

seems you are saying their blades are stamped+ not full tang and that's the reason - but I'm sure that's not what you are trying to say because your favorite Wusthof has stamped blades too. Then there is their Emeril line which was total crap.

Surprised no one has mentioned ceramic blade knives. Kyocera even has one that has the wavy Damascus Steel look of that 1000 dollar slicer.

Wusthof is my favorite chef's knife too. I nearly always hand sharpen mine before using. (Nothing is worse than a dull knife, except maybe the combination of a dull knife and a glass cutting board!)

I'd love to hear more about people's sharpening systems in addition to their chef's knifes.

Here is an interesting review. You may or may not take it as gospel, but it may give you an idea of what to look for as you try out knives at SLT

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/129/Chefs-Knives-Rated

Also, do you have access to Cooks Illustrated magazine online? They test and rate chef's knives fairly often.

I found this sharpener at TJMaxx. $29.99
I have since seen them on Macys and Amazon cheaper.
~boxer

8 in chef's knife from Wustof or Henkels. We have the Henkels' 10 inch, and while I like it, it's a bit too long for me for every day use. So my kitchen warming present to myself is going to be an 8 in.

We have older series Henkels that have more curved handles, and they are definitely more comfortable than the classic style.

boxerpups, is that one of the 2 stage Wusthof sharpener?

Another brand to look for are Mac knives (Japanese I believe). My mom had a set, which unfortunately sister gave away when my mom died. They were amazing knives, razor sharp, and I rarely see them mentioned.

Oh look - you got me researching more, and found a Wiki on Sabatier. Oops! Although mine were bought from a very reputable London store, it seems mine may not be 'genuine', even though made in France.

Well, they've served me well for 25 years so far, so I'm not complaining. . .

Interesting though - thanks for getting me to read further.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wiki on Sabatier

Boy what an active topic. Lots of great suggestions regarding knives. My favorite knife won't help the OP as it is one I brought back to California from Ohio many years ago. It does require frequent sharpening, but it is the knife both my DH and I use constantly. It is especially great for slicing tomatoes. It is shown below (I can no longer read the name on the blade through its many years of use), along with another "antique" knife that I also brought from Ohio (on the plane--imagine doing that now) that I don't dare try using as I would be sure to cut myself. Both of the knives my grandfather (who has been dead for about 30 years) got out of the old general store next to his place of business when the general store went out of business.

vitamins, they look and sound like Chicago Cutlery.

I think so.....

I had a set of Sabatier Kitchen knives given to me by my college on my first day of Culinary School... 35 years ago... It was a set of 6 plus a sharpening tool. The last several years (Like Modefella) I have been using junk to cut and chop with.... until last year I received a gift of Henckel chef knives from my employer for 10 years of service. I really dont care much about the brand, they were free and they are sharp and come in a variety of sizes...:) I am all set!!! I didn't even know the brand until just now when I went to check...lol.

Knives are fun. Next we can discuss oyster knives. Turns out a rusty screwdriver really isn't the best tool.

As a kitchenwarming gift, I received 2 beautiful, comfortable Cutco knives, one a chef's. Used for the first time today. Wow, sharpest knife that I own. I have some Chicago Cutlery from the 80's and Sabatier. I had most of my old knives professionally sharpened a couple of weeks ago.

Henckels Twin Forestar II 7" -- love it! I'm petite, and it's the perfect size and weight. I thought it was too light when I got it has a gift for Christmas, but it quickly became my most-used knife. The blade is nice and thin and can be used for everything. It's perfect.

My fav is serrated Ginsu set with built in sharpener caddy (AS SEEN ON TV)... best knives ever.

JK.

Shun Classic, four star henckel and various others...hoping to get some single sided japenese sooner one can dream of Kramer knives.

I'm married to a professional chef, and years ago, I bought him a set of Global knives as a Christmas present. I thought he would faint. At the time, they were really hard to find in the US.

It's 20 years later, and whenever I can, I use his Globals. He also gave me a Global Chef's Knife, a small prep knife, and a bread knife when we remodeled the kitchen. I guard them carefully against nicks, and they far outshine any other knife in my collection.

But BE CAREFUL cuz they are SHARP SHARP SHARP.

I guess I should have mentioned what I like about it other than the sharpness - it balances nicely in the hand - i.e. the weight distribution just feels "right" - and it is all one piece construction. The handle is integrated with the knife itself. Unlike other knives, I don't have to worry about the blade coming loose from the handle.

Definitely go to a knife store or distributor and test them out. Feel the heft in your hand whatever you are looking to purchase. Ultimately, you are the one who has to use it.

I have a large collection of the Wusthof original Grand Prix. I love the balance and feel of them. My go to in the set is my 10 inch chefs with a wide blade. It's weighty and balanced. I got it because I felt my 8 inch chefs was too small. I don't think it's large, but for some reason, my guests often comment about how large it is. I think it's the same size (different brand) that Sarah Moulton uses and she's tiny. So I guess it depends on the person.

In my set I also have a Santuko, which I also use a lot. It's very light yet still balanced. This is the knife my wife prefers and she's tiny at 5 ft. She also likes to use the sandwich knife for slicing. She lusts for the Kyocera ceramic knife, but cringes at the price. She's not the main cook in the family so it's not a big deal.

Another knife I use a lot is the Chinese cleaver. I have a few of those, like a Dexter stainless and a Chan Chi Kee carbon steel I got in Hong Kong. They're both light and sharp. The best part about using a cleaver is you can chop/slice and then scoop and transfer very efficiently.

Now if you asked me if I could only have one chefs knife what would it be? I'd pick a Chinese cleaver, because it can do so much. This is despite the fact that I use my Wusthof at least 75% of the time.

I've tried all the other brands you listed and they're all fine knives. I don't think you can go wrong. Just pick what feels good to you.

"I've tried all the other brands you listed and they're all fine knives. I don't think you can go wrong. Just pick what feels good to you."

I take that back. The only brand you listed that I didn't like is the Cutco. I thought they felt cheap. I also don't like those infomercial knives with the serrated blades. I have a relative who bought a set. I hate the way they cut, so when I go to their house to cook Thanksgiving dinner, I bring my Wusthof chefs and carving knives.

Well, I'm barely 5' and from what I've seen; like the notion of a one piece knife. I'm tracking a Global G2 knife on ebay right now and found a LST (if I use initials, I can't screw up the spelling) local to the remodeled house. I'm amazed at teh traffic this thread drew. I never ever even realized there was a whole world of knives out there! Thanks so much everyone.

LST (if I use initials, I can't screw up the spelling)

Think again. Initials would be "SLT" ;-)

I have the German-made Henckels, Wusthof, and a noname (paring knife) that I picked up at a street market in Lyon or Bordeaux in France about a dozen years ago. Turns out that little knife is easily the most favored knife by both DH and me. Sorry I can't intelligently refer it as there is neither now nor was there then a brand marking anywhere on it. Best knife.

Of the others viz. the chef's knives that you asked about - DH and I mustn't be very discriminating because we're hard pressed to see the difference between our Henckels and our Wusthofs and often don't even know which brand we're using until we look at the logo. They look and feel just the same to us - Solingen signature we figured.

Finally, we got rid of our old dodgy knives that hailed to our student days so we don't have loads at all - a couple of the chefs (6 and 8" or else 8 & 10", to suit my much taller DH and me), a tomato, a bread, and the paring knife mentioned earlier. Ah yes - and then there's the mandoline - great thing to have. But not what you asked about.

Geez... I can't believe I "messed" the initials up! I am interested in getting a mandoline but I'll start with the chefs knife and then add a paring knife. Somehow, good tools makes cooking more fun and has (at least what I've added in terms of appliances in my new kitchen) enabled me to be way more creative in my cooking.

One cautionary note about the Globals: while they do cut well, some complain that the steel handles are slippery if you handle them with wet hands. We have several on the boat (they do well in a marine environment) and I do sometimes find this to be a problem, although I do find that they retain a sharp edge well. You are in a humid environment as well, I believe.

Mindstorm,
Does that little French knife have a circular ferrule?

A note too on sharpening and honing..

Apparently my DH thinks I should not be allowed to sharpen my own knives -- LOL. Whenever he sees me with the knife steel he gets this very distressed expression and takes it away from me to do it himself. Apparently (not just for a global but for any knife) there is a certain skill to it. I'm a little skeptical that I can't master sharpening a knife, but I relent and let him do it. haha (or am I just being crafty? hmmmmm).

I should also mention I have small hands (or at least short stubby fingers), so the knife does fit my hand well.

There is one other knife in my collection that I like and that's the Santoku. I don't recall the brand, but I picked it up at Home Goods very cheap. Great for chopping.

Here's another "essential" item to go with your knives -- a nice little cutting board.

I found some great little cutting boards at Home Goods for $4. They are in various colors by Oneida and are 7.5" x 11". They fit great in one of my junk drawers. They make grabbing a cutting board for veggie chopping quick and easy to clean up.

Your DH and mine must be cut from the same thread cindyandmocha. He insists he already has the best sharpening tools and can sharpen anything to perfection... maybe he can, he's pretty handy. I have a GORGEOUS cutting board he made me about 3 years ago for my birthday. It's out of teak, walnut, cherry, and there might be some maple in there. I forget. It sits right out on my counter so I'm set in that direction.

Cindy,

A knife steele wont sharpen a knife infact it may dull a knife... the purpose of a steele is to remove bent/damaged edge material.

To sharpen you should be using whetstone and later hone it with paper/cardboard or leather.

If you are not comfortable get a knife professionally sharpened atleast once a year.

I have a GORGEOUS cutting board he made me about 3 years ago for my birthday. It's out of teak, walnut, cherry, and there might be some maple in there.

ohh... can we see it? :)

great thread, very interesting.

Whenever he sees me with the knife steel he gets this very distressed expression and takes it away from me to do it himself.

too funny... i was just thinking that i wouldn't trust myself to sharpen my own knife!

ask and ye' shall receive...
New:

I've posted this before, so feel free to skip. On the subject of steeling.

When you use a knife, it gets dull in two ways. First, the edge bends over and gets crooked (misaligned) instead of being a straight edge. Second, the edge gets round (dull) instead of sharp.

A traditional steel is a round, smooth metal rod. It helps with the first part. It pushes the crooked part of the edge back in line. It will not make a rounded edge sharp.

Most steels today are grooved, not smooth. If you use this hard enough on an edge, the edge will appear to ''sharpen.'' But it doesn't. What actually happens is, all that pressure concentrated on one tiny section of a thin piece of metal, plus the rough grooves, actually tears the edge into tiny jagged, smeared bits. You can see this under a microscope. You can also run your finger down the edge (very lightly) and feel the roughness.

Thus jaggedy, the edge is like a micro serrated saw blade, and will slice very effectively. For a short time. Soon the jagged bits break off and leave the edge, as round as before.

That's why the old time butcher steels his knife so hard that it makes a singing noise, and does it before every cutting session - because he has to - the dull edge needs to get rough and jagged to cut, it only cuts well for a short time, and anyway he's just cutting up a cow into hunks.

Blade users who need really sharp, lasting edges do not steel their edges. Hairdressers don't steel their shears, sushi chefs don't steel their $500 yanagibas, barbers don't steel their straight razors.

I use the smooth part of a steel, sometimes, to straighten an edge. But for real sharpening, you need to use a stone, a grinding device, something like that. If you use a chefs knife heavily every day, it will need to be sharpened every couple of months, depending on how picky you are. There is simply no such thing as a knife that stays sharp for year(s). Not even a ceramic knife.

How can you tell if your knife is sharp, especially if you are used to dull knives? I don't know if this is the best way, but take a really ripe, soft tomato that has an firmly intact skin (not a hard grocery store item in midwinter, not a falling apart rotten one either). Place the knife blade on the tomato, pinch the very end of the handle loosely between thumb and finger, and draw the knife over the tomato - slowly - with only the blade's own weight pressing down. The knife should cleanly cut the tomato through with no crushing. Then place the halves, cut side down, on the board, and cut them into 1/8'' thick slices. There should be no crushing. Even thinner slices are better. That knife is as sharp as it needs to be for the kitchen.

(Another test - which takes more commitment - when you cut off the corner of your finger, it should be painless and bloodless and almost unnoticed - until you realize what's happened.)

remodelfla... wow that IS gorgeous. what a really special gift. thanks for sharing. :)

johnliu... that's a really good point about hairdressers/shears, etc. so does that mean it's best to take the knife somewhere to be professionally sharpened? (obviously i'm not a sushi chef.)

Remodelfa, I am so impressed! What a lovely cutting board. I can't believe your DH is so wonderfully handy!

Boxerpups, when you posted your photo of the knife sharpener, I realized I DID have one. I just had forgotten about it since moving back into the kitchen nearly a year ago. Thanks for reminding me. I have found it again:)

Johnliu, thanks for the great explanation. I have once again increased my knowledge base due to GW!

Remodelfla, just a tip for your online knife shopping . . . check out Zappos.com (yes, the shoe people!). I had no idea they even sold knives until I was ordering a bunch of Wusthofs for my husband, brothers, and nephew for Christmas presents last year. I had found the knife I wanted (yes, I *gasp* handled it in a store first!) and then did an online search for it (antss, if it makes you feel better, the store only had one, and I needed six). Several places had it, but Zappos had it for $10 cheaper AND with free shipping. Most amazing of all, I ordered it late one afternoon and it arrived the next day! Zappos only had five of the one I needed, so I ordered the last one from Cooking.com. It cost $10 more, I paid another $10 shipping, and it arrived a week later.

By the way, in answer to your question, I love all my Wusthof Classics, but my new favorite is the wavy santoku (the one I ordered from Zappos). It's probably just because it's currently the sharpest one I have.

wow... amazing resource holligator! and as a heads up on anyone interested in the Wusthof knives, Zappos has a bunch of them on sale for approx. 40% off.

Here is a link that might be useful: wusthof knives at zappos

An easy way to sharpen knives is a Chefs Choice electric sharpening machine. Cooks Illustrated rated this device well. I was given one, tried it out and was impressed. I did give it away, but only because the particular model I got sharpens to a 20-25 degree angle and I prefer 15 degrees. So I gave it to my friend (she of the Lot of Living Kitchen) who has 40+ knives, all dull (but no longer). I think they cost $150+ but am not sure. Basically they have three rotating abrasive wheels, from coarse to fine, and you draw the knife through slots that position the blade at a fixed angle relative to the wheels.

Whetstones cost maybe $50+ for a minimal set of oilstones, but do take some learning and time. It is kind of fun, and is the ''best'' way - removes the least metal and you can control the angle, toothiness, etc. I know quite a few here on KF use stones.

There are various other sharpening gadgets. I can't really say which are good. Some of the V-rod systems are probably meant for shorter knives.

Or you can have a service sharpen your knives. I don't know the cost. Seems like a reasonable route if they do a good job and don't take off too much metal. I would not have any old service sharpen a really good knife (like, >$300?) or an Asian type edge (more acute angle, single-bevel, etc).

johnliu, Great writeup! Now *that* is a writeup that ought to be archived!

Kitchendetective, when you say "circular ferrule" do you mean its cross-section? If so, I'd say it probably is - almost circular, that is. I do believe that it is integral with the blade but can't be sure about it as I'm going by what is apparent only. I have long thought that it looked just like my Wusthof and Henckels but when you asked about the ferrule I realized that indeed that is sharply different to either of those two.

Do you have one of these nonames too :-)

Yes, cross section. After I pressed "enter," I thought I should have clarified that. Some of my thirty-six-year-old Sabatiers with no further i.d. have that and look like sh** (um, patina), but they are the fought over parers, even by the DSes (who somehow got your sleek kitchen preferences instead of their mum's highly non-minimalist ones).

Here is a source for pre-war Sabatiers. I mean, pre WW2. The blanks were forged before Hitler invaded Poland, then hidden - whether heroically from the Nazi's or sensibly from the taxman, hard to say, until an old brick wall was torn down one day and there they were.

Anyway, pointing out that the blanks were ground and handled in the ''old'' style, called ''Nogent'' - which is that round ferrule you gals are talking about.

(I have no connection to this seller and have not bought anything from them. I've heard you should make sure they send you a straight blade.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Nogent Sabatier

Silly DSes. Honestly! Sometimes you can show them taste, elegance and sophistication and still they go over to the dark side.

:-)

Gosh, I wonder if that's what my step-child of a fought-over knife is. I always thought I was much too much of a plebian to have something so cool but who knows ... maybe I've been too cool all along ;-)
Unlike the official Sabatier knives I see online though, mine have no markings whatsoever. Still, its a wonderful knife.

JohnLiu, Wow! That's a cool story. Yah, no logos on mine and besides you can see the rivets on the handles on mine - so I sadly mine may not have the eminent provenance of the Thiers-Issards you've got there. Cool party favour to have though, huh?

John, you are a treasure trove of useless information! Are you in Boston parts perchance? I want you to come over and be my best friend. Honestly. We'd get along famously - I can bore you with the minutiae of atmospheric drag of a lifting body at various altitudes, mach number variations, lift characteristics of diff profiles, controllability parameters, LPVs and LMIs (my new widget) and you ... well you can wax eloquent on lost knives and how to restore their sharp edges for various time constants. And of course all the other pointless but riveting stuff you recount so well. What say you?

Mine has no logos whatsoever. The rivets are a tarnished gold color. The blade, as with all my Sabatiers, sharpens to a very sharp edge, but it doesn't hold that edge very long.

LOL about the DSes.

Mindstorm, I don't get to Boston much, but am happy to bore you when I do. You can tell me how an aerodynamicist would calculate vent hood capture. I expect to hear that you modeled yours in your fancy new software.

This handle looks like it might be a good one for my aching hands. I'm curious as to whether any of you has held/tried this knife from Sur La Table yet. Any reactions? I'll link as I don't think it will allow copying.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kramer 8