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kandt_gw

varnish: pre cat vs. cat. conversion?

17 years ago

I am having my cabinets painted and I get the choice of pre-cat vs. cat. conversion (cc) varnish. The painter says the cc varnish is much thicker and is best used for furniture. He says the pre-cat is easier to touch up, works just as well.

I have heard that cc is "state of the art" but now I don't know.

I live in Calif--I know that makes a difference.

What would/did you do and why?

Comments (6)

  • 17 years ago

    I used the Satin Impervo finish from BM for my laundry room cabients. I am unsure of the CAT abbreviation. what is it?

  • 17 years ago

    Pre-cat (pre-catalyzed conversion varnish) comes ready to go out of the can and is not as good as catalyzed conversion varnish which you add a catalyst (hardener) to before you use it. The latter has a pot life of about six hours which means after six hours it jells and is unusable and can harden it your equipment if not cleaned well. I don't think pre-cat is any easier to repair, neither melts into the previous coat like nitro lacquer does so if you pass a certain widow it has to be scuff sanded before you re-coat. I would say the opposite is true re: furniture vs. kitchens. CCV is more commonly used on kitchens because of the higher level of abuse a kitchen gets. As far a the California thing, I'm in LA and spray CV all the time. I've written about this many times lately on this forum. To answer your question more specifically I would need to know what finish you're trying to get and what you're spraying over.

  • 17 years ago

    HI jdesign:

    I was hoping you'd reply! They are new paint grade cabinets. They are going to spray paint with BM paint and then glaze then varnish. I'm trying to get the most durable and easiest to touch up. Is CCV the best for both instances?

    Thanks!

  • 17 years ago

    Hi-Kandt, glad to be of help if I can. The touch up thing has me a little confused as to what you're expecting to be able to do in that regards. Basically you are going to have a pigmented paint covered by a clear finish and to complicate things a glaze layer (which should be separated from the paint by a clear sealer which could be CV or vinyl sealer which is also compatible). What I'm saying is you have this multi-layered finish and if you chip it down to bare wood you can't just expect to touch up one small spot without it being noticeable. Maybe on the edge of a door with a small artist brush you could get away with it somewhat. So when the painter says one is easier to repair than the other I'm not sure what he's talking about. A sprayed finish of any kind is always going to show a repair because the texture is different. CCV also referred to sometimes as post-cat. is a harder finish than pre. and to me the touch up would be the same. The BM paint I'm assuming is water-based which is fine but not as hard as a pigmented CV as your color coat. I'm doing several different finishes on sample doors right now and one of them is a water-based Farrow & Ball paint with a clear CV top coat. I can't tell you how durable this is because I'm actually trying to get it to chip so there is something under it to cause that. It's a Chalon finish and really difficult to pull off and have it look naturally aged. For the glazed door I'm doing what I described above which is color CV, rub-through, clear CV, glaze and clear CV top coat. Glazing is a whole other subject and can look great if done well or not. Hard maple will be best for a smooth finish and is less susceptible to dings and dents. Are they being painted on site or in a shop? Are you in LA also?
    John

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks jdesign!

    If I was in LA, I'd probably be hiring you : ) ! I'm in nor Cal--

    I guess that I'm looking for touching up just in case of dings. I've had a couple friends who have had their cabs painted and now, there are dings. It must be to the bare wood cuz the color differences are noticeable. I guess I'll resign myself to the fact. Was going to hand paint originally just for touch up reasons.

    The painters spray in their shop and so if the touch up is the same, then I'm going with CCV! THanks ever so much for your help: that's another decision made! Just 1000 more to go!

  • 17 years ago

    Okay, good luck with it. I was going to add I am hand painting some sample doors also. Christopher Peacock kitchens are hand painted on site. Not an easy feat to pull off either, but can be touched up. I'm doing it with really expensive oil-based paint from Europe and a really good Italian brush same as the CP kitchens. Check out your glazing sample well, this can really make a difference.
    John