Here is my proposed layout. The brown ovals represent support columns that (I think) will have to be put in if the load-bearing wall is removed (pending review by the structural engineer next week.)

I feel that you are jamming all the important elements together to get this island (desk height?) ...Plus, putting in kind of a dicey situation with the range (no more wall ovens?) open so close to the dining area, without much room to either side.

But maybe it's your drawing, and you intend to attach the range with more countertop to the run of cabinets that hold the sink? Maybe try redrawing the plan to accurate scale using graph paper, then take a digital photo or scan it, rather than this other method that's more difficult to fully understand.

Rhome410,
Sigh - I shouldn't have done that at bedtime! I posted the wrong file, AND I didn't do the post properly - I wondered why it looked out of proportion. Let's try this again:
Here is the current floor plan:

The biggest problem I have is with the desk height cabinets in the breakfast area - it is very snug in there. I think they were added on somewhere along the line.

Here is a photo of the loadbearing wall in the current kitchen:

And here is the potential revision. I redrew this to leave out the columns as my contractor told me that he thinks he can put a long enough beam in the attic that I won't need support columns! Just waiting now to find out the engineer's opinion, and the cost.

My biggest problem with this layout is that I lose all but one of my upper cabinets.

Thank you for any and all advice!

So what about the adjacent dining room? How do you plan to use it? 3 places all within sight of each other for eating? Island seating, breakfast area, and dining room? It's overkill. If you can figure on one space to have for your eating activities and then devote either the DR or the BR to the kitchen, your workflow will be better.

Here's the layout I originally proposed when you broached the subject, and I think it's still worth discussing as it gives you an "eat in kitchen" as well as an "eat in family room" situation by making the actual dining room shoulder the lions share of those duties.

This voids one of your conditions by adding plumbing. It's just an idea of maybe getting more out of the space by chunking on the table to the island and using the island for a working area. I think the problem with your island and prep is that is will be over 5 feet away from the ?range? and over 5 feet away from water.

I used to have 5 foot aisles and I felt good because I have long arms and didn't mind the step, step between the two sides as a trade off for never being impacted by someone working on the other side of the aisle.

As you can tell, this leaves the island where you had it but enlarges the top by adding 12" deep cabinets to the reverse side to makeup for the loss of wall cabinets. It also makes the areas on both sides of the sink available for light tasks like snack making or people who bring stuff that needs some light finishing.

I'd think about moving the island closer to the window wall if you don't wanna add plumbing. Just cause its a very different cooking experience to do turn, step, put down than doing turn, step, step, step, put down.

How many cats?

Your caveat about a bunch of eating places in one area is usually my own, GD, but Catherder (her experience should apply nicely to us :) has decided that she really does want to keep her little breakfast table.

How great that you don't need to design around columns, Catherder. For your current layout, it looks nice and workable, except...how come the island's so skinny and far away from the counter? Just a computer design glitch? In any case, once widened/brought within shouting distance, you will effectively have a nice efficient galley kitchen with storage at one end.

I personally love having no overhead storage, but that's because I'm very short and couldn't reach it when I had it. What did you have overhead and where that you'd like to replicate? Once you list those, maybe an answer will come along. I'm guessing the actual items you'd missing having there are relatively few.

You could run that triangular terminating cabinet up for a definite end point to your counter that also provided higher storage for the stove area. Would that create an undesirable separation from the table? You could also set off your kitchen area from the rest of the room by terminating each end of the island with narrow cabinets running from floor to ceiling. What's your look? Wide open? Or are you open to adding architectural definition to the space?

What is the purpose/how do you see using the island? And how wide is that aisle between it and the working elements of the kitchen? It seems a long way back and 'out of the loop,' so just a lot of extra counter space that might not serve you well.

I think this could be a good idea if you designed that island to work for you better... Although there are ways to improve the layout you have without losing the wall, too. Are you really ready to have the whole kitchen on view to all the main living areas of your home, including whomever comes to your front door? I had that before and closed off my kitchen in this house. ;-)

Thank you everyone for your suggestions!
I probably ought to provide a bit more information that might be helpful. .

- While I like the idea of a prep sink in the island, and there is a water line there (because of the ice maker in the refrigerator), there is no drain. I simply can't afford that luxury of having a drain line installed for a prep sink.

- Currently, I use the "dining room" area of the living room as my office area - I found I preferred that over using one of the bedrooms as an office.

- I realized that my favorite spot in the entire house is my breakfast area, because of my 100-year-old oak farm table and the light fixture I got for over it! If I put the farm table in the dining area, I lose my great office space. I know that might be silly, but..

- I don't have to worry about a lot of seating - I live alone, and I don't entertain simply because I'm new to the area and don't know anyone. :(

- I realized that my favorite spot in the entire house is my breakfast area, because of my 100-year-old oak farm table and the light fixture I got for over it! If I put the farm table in the dining area, I lose my great office space. I know that might be silly, but..

Bmorepanic, I have 4 cats, 1 dog, and a bunch of cows (I have a ranch)!

Rosie, the island was skinny because it didn't occur to me to enlarge it from the standard 25" deep cabinet depth! Geez. Anyway, I've redrawn it to leave 48" walkways around (is that too much?) so it comes out 9 feet long x 3 feet wide.

As far as upper cabinets go: Personally, I like the idea of having all my stuff in big lower drawers - dishes, glasses, everything. Right now I actually only use 2 upper cabinets, and one of those is a coffee station! When I think about the upper cabinet issue, I think it is more a worry about resale than anything.

"What's your look? Wide open?�or architectural definition�?" I am trying for a very open plan where I can see out the windows. All my windows (except the one over the sink) are 6 ft tall and since I'm out in the country, I don't need to worry about drawing curtains or blinds. I want to be able to see out to my land.

Rhome, to answer your question about "how do you see using the island?" - I am a Very.Messy.Cook and so the idea of a big expanse of uninterrupted space is very appealing. It would be good for projects too.

As far as losing the wall - I am actually thinking that might be a good compromise - perhaps only taking out half the wall to open the breakfast area, but leave the kitchen part of the wall. That would be much less expensive and solve a lot of problems (electrical, extensive structural support, etc.) But, would it be a good decision long-term for resale? I don't know.

Here is a redraw of the kitchen with adjusted island size:

And here is a drawing of the kitchen in relation to the rest of the house:

Your functionality would really be improved greatly by having a prep sink on the island. A small trench in the concrete and a bit of plumbing is a pretty easy DIY task if you're handy, or maybe a $500 expense from a plumber. As it is, the prep spot will between the sink and the range, and that's not very much room. The island will not be used for prep because you have no water source on it, and/or it's not next to the cooking zone. One of those conditions has to exist for you to actually use an area as the prep zone. Your DW will have to go to the other side of the sink to even think about making this work, and you still won't have a truly useful island.

Also, the island as shown is too long and impacts the seating in the breakfast area.

Otherwise, I think the best suggestion would be to put the cooktop back on the island and just deal with the more difficult and expen$ive logistics of having an island vent. That would at least get you a bit more room around the sink area for a helper, and if the cooktop was offset from the sink towards the breakfast end, the larger expanse of space across from the sink could work as the main prep space if you didn't mind going back and forth across the aisle.

Hi, Tex. Regarding distance, I'd bring it just as close as it would seem to work well for you. The closer the more efficient.

Sticking with your current general layout thoughts, it sounds like you have 3 possibilities:

1. No wall. Wide open. Big work island with view, stools. Sink stays in place. Takes more space than #2 and #3.
2. Wall. Parallel counters. No eating counter, or short one on end. Good potential with reworking of layout. From experience, I would always put my money into layout and economize elsewhere, and I'd want a great prep area in front of the windows.
3. Partial wall, wall with "window," open knee wall taller than counter to hide mess, knee wall with counter flanked by ? for a stronger separation from the mess, etc. With or without stools on outside. Many variations. Like the island, I think this would make a good, inviting prep counter as long as it was extended close enough to the other for efficiency and well equipped. I put a link to Houzz "pass-throughs" below.

Here is a link that might be useful: [Houzz pass-throughs[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/kitchen-pass-through-phbr0lbl-bl~l_55)

Okey doke, I'm convinced about the prep sink! I'll call my plumber and get an estimate.

Rosie, I've contemplated the pass-through idea, but I have a rather negative opinion of them because I spent many years in cheap apartments in Houston, where pass-throughs were touted as a feature. So pass-throughs, to me, are not a desirable feature. Just me, I know, but I don't think I'd ever be able to look at a pass-through without it bringing back certain memories.

Well, okay. But I'll put in a pitch anyway, because you are wary of tacky, and truthfully, a lot of kitchens-in-the-living room do look somewhat tacky to me because they're work rooms. They're at their best when they're cleaned up for company AND not being used, and even then...

Those cheap apartment holes are actually what leap first to my mind with that word too. Some others are designed to be fine architectural features, though. That's why I posted that link, which actually shows a bunch of different things, not just pass-throughs.

Pass-throughs actually start with a theoretical advantage: Unlike the other options they allow you to edit out some of those inevitably tacky or less-than-beautiful kitchen views. Like a crowded sink or the refrigerator door. The greasy stove counter and bags of plastic glasses.

One of them above all changed my mind about this and is always the second memory following close on those Horrible Holes. It was in House Beautiful some years ago but designed long after traumatized people had started running screaming from the very idea. The cook wanted to be able to go in her kitchen without people following her, and this allowed her to do so without just disappearing from her own parties. Its framing was simple traditional but beautifully designed, and a fine small piece of furniture with lamp or whatever was set in front of it. It actually wasn't very large and the bottom edge was set...not low. It was away from where most of the cooking took place. What made it so special was that it handsomely framed a really nice view across a center island to the opposite wall of the kitchen, which was of course designed to be a great, and intriguing, view for those passing by (this kitchen's walls were a gorgeous 17-coats-of-glaze-type red, contrasting with the room outside, and the cabinets were creamy white). Inside was obviously the place to be, and it made you want to climb right on through. No tacky stools to facilitate this, tho, or tacky counter inviting someone to discard a used drink glass or stack of junk mail. Much on the sides of the kitchen wasn't visible because you couldn't just walk up stick your face in, and it had attractive shutters on the kitchen side so the cook could close it off altogether.

Not that this is what you'd want, but, just for instance, how about a wall with a not-very-wide vertical slice removed right down to the counter? Simple and elegant, and inexpensive to construct. A stove or sink could hide right next to you on one side of the opening and a crockpot and toaster on the other.

Have you considered turning the breakfast table 90 degrees to give yourself more space between the island and the table?

I understand you wanting to see you property...and your cows! We have horses and it's so much fun watching them running around out there, especially now that it finally quit snowing! So nice to finally see spring :)

As for your overall layout, it makes a lot of sense to me. When you live in the country, you don't entertain like you do in town. It's not always easy to get friends/family to drive out and it might take a while to get to know your neighbors...and then, they'd much rather sit at the breakfast table and drink coffee, anyway.

I like your kitchen plan a lot. Prep sinks can be nice, but with the fridge next to a pantry, it looks like your 'landing area' for the fridge will be that end of the island. I wouldn't put a sink there...but the microwave drawer is in a great location. If you decide you need a prep sink, I'd put it on the other end. However, I'm not sure you really need one. The main sink is very close by and if you're the only one in the kitchen cooking...you won't have one person loading dishes while you're prepping.

As for being new to the area...give it time, I'm sure you'll meet people. In our area, there are lots of volunteer organizations (even in our small town of 500) so that's a way to meet your neighbors, too. If you're too busy to do that...just give it time. We live in eastern Washington (five miles from Idaho) and you see very few people in the winter...but by spring it's nice to 'visit' again :)