The undercounter option seems to make a nicer kitchen...So much more counter space and sink and stove not to jammed together. On the 2nd plan, besides creating a problem on the peninsula end of the oven/fridge mass, I think you might be creating the dreaded, deep-corner-counter cave at the other end with the tall units crowding against the corner cabinet.

If you were to find a good plan in which to stack the micro and oven, I'd be sure to put the oven at about tummy/chest height, and the micro at eye level. If the oven is at eye level, the microwave would be very high.

It'd be easier to look at a floor plan view of each layout, instead of the 3D's, to see what's going on in each and how things work together.

Thanks - please find below the links to the 2 floor plans; the first one is the undercounter oven version.

Look forward to any and all inputs

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/woostersoz/kitchen1.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/woostersoz/kitchen2.jpg

Sorry trying to get the images loaded directly on this page :

Layout 1 :

Layout 2 :

A range would make so much more functional sense than a separate rangetop and wall oven. It would also make more budget sense.

I still don't see them...Are you pasting the HTML code into your post?

Trying to help--are these in the right order?

Layout 1:

Layout 2:

Wow! they're big...Can you resize them? I was going to embed them for you, but even on my large monitor w/high resolution they were wider than I could get my screen....

Edit --> Resize

Keep proportions and maybe reduce them by 50%

La Koala's work for me.

I had the uc oven position figured wrong. I thought it was where you have the wine fridge, which I would prefer, but I don't have a better location for the wine then. I still stand by my original opinion that the undercounter plan is much better. In addition to what I said previously, the fridge is so much more easily accessible to those outside the kitchen (microwave, too). With it behind the peninsula anyone wanting a beverage or snack has to come into and go across the kitchen, possibly in the path of a busy cook or baker.

You don't want the bottom of the oven any higher than hip or waist....if it's too high, it's actually a little tougher to get stuff out. With our double ovens, the bottom oven is fine, but when I take out the items from the top oven, I've occasionally brushed the tips of certain parts of the female anatomy above the waist on the oven door! [The bottom of the oven cavity of the lower oven is 19" off the floor, the upper oven is 43" off the floor. Ideally, with one oven I'd put the bottom of the oven cavity somewhere in between....maybe 25 - 30 inches off the floor...depending on your height (I'm 5'10")]

As much as I prefer wall ovens, if these are the only two options to choose from, I have to pick the under counter...the wall oven layout looks awkward b/c of the location of the oven stack.

In the first layout (UC), how about along the left wall the refrigerator + oven stack + dish hutch to the wall...maybe w/glass doors? That avoids the "dreaded, deep-corner-counter cave"

Leave the sink & cooktop where they are...cooktop is much better protected there.

Good call, Buehl. That could work and preserves all the good parts of the 1st plan. Love it!

I also just noticed that in the UC version the peninsula is about a foot longer & w/the refrigerator right there, it may be an issue...especially if the refrigerator is a CD and not built-in...which means it will actually be around 30" deep, not 24".

Something like this...you might also consider moving the cooktop "up" 6 to 12" to give you a little more working room b/w the sink & cooktop. But, it might limit storage/cabinet options...your call.

I'd also really like to see corner super susans in the base cabinets b/c you don't have a lot of storage (although, the dish hutch would help a lot!)

I don't know if you are set on the wine fridge or not, but adjacent to cooking appliances is not optimal, it will make the fridge work harder. Next to a cooktop is better of the two: next to an undercounter oven they would be side wall to side wall.

(OK, 6" longer in the UC version...)

In the one I just posted (w/peninsulaYou might want to further reduce the peninsula by 6" to give you a 36" opening if CD refrigerator & 42" opening if CD.

Also, just realized I left the "Wine Cellar" off...

Make that cabinet facing out on the peninsula at least 27". You'll need filler on the inside b/c you need to be sure all drawers/doors will clear in that corner, including the handles. If you need more filler, then make that cabinet wider.

Thanks all for your great inputs.. Buehl - The fridge is a KitchenAid built in - so prob around 26" deep rather than 30".

I like your revised layout (because it separates the oven from the wine cooler and puts the oven at a more usable height) but the one question I have is : if I keep the oven/MW stack next to the fridge, when the oven and the dishwasher are both open, this will create a very tight corner at the bottom left... the oven is a Miele 27" high where the door is about 24" high and the door of the Miele D/W is approx 28".

What should be the clearance between the oven stack and D/W both from the point of view of opening and using the oven as well as using that corner to unload the D/W into dish hutch ?

Thanks again

You have 2' b/w the DW & the side counter...so you'll have plenty of room to stand and unload the DW.

As to ovens & DW...how often are they used/open at the same time? Even if you're emptying/loading the DW while baking/roasting I don't think it would be that big a deal to temporarily close the DW while getting something out of the oven. You can check things by looking in from in front of or the side of the DW.

The MW is the one that might be an issue as it gets used more (at least in my house!). But, I think it's the same response, close the DW temporarily, if you have to, to get something out of the MW...you might not even have to b/c of the 2' b/w the DW & oven stack and b/c MW doors open to the side...hinges on the left side (which is one reason why I wouldn't do the same thing on the other side of your kitchen).

Most kitchens have a few compromises to give the best functionality for what you do the most in the kitchen. If you bake a tremendous amount, then maybe it will be an issue.

The UC layout's compromises are

(1) the oven being under the counter (which I definitely wouldn't want if I baked/roasted a lot),

(2) the location of the Wine Ref & UC oven next to each other, and

(3) the less than 36" of aisle space b/w peninsula & refrigerator (even w/a built-in).

This layout eliminates all 3 of the above but has the oven stack near the DW...which may or may not be an issue, but even if it is, it's not all the time...just those cases when you're loading/unloading the DW & baking/roasting. (If you're just cleaning up while waiting for something to get done baking/roasting, you'll probably want to close up the DW anyway since you'll be done with it for now....unless someone else is cleaning up!)

Thanks everyone for your responses.

One more thing - does it make sense to move the microwave to under the peninsula like a M/W drawer next to the fridge drawers?
Also I was thinking of getting the Miele 27" oven so that the drop is not as much and will reduce the jam between the oven and the D/W.

I am going to try and get a 48" diagonal opening between the fridge and the peninsula so two people can pass. Hopefully, that won't compromise on the peninsula too much.

Cookingmama

It does look that the oven and DW door if opened at the same time could be an issue. Could you simply swap the sink and DW?

I wouldn't want the sink and dw swapped, as I agree with Buehl in not seeing why the door conflict is a huge problem...Just close the dw when the other needs to be open for just a minute. It's not like the oven needs to stay open for a long time. I also don't think I'd compromise on oven size because of this, unless a 27" oven is truly what you want/need. Am I missing something that getting a narrower oven will reduce the clearance distance needed for the open door? That has to do with the height of the door more than the width...unless the narrower oven is also shorter, which I don't think it is.