Your house is very cute! We just removed a chimney to open up space in our kitchen--it was a hard day's work, but a 2 story chimney came down and loaded into the dumpster with 3 men in about 5 hours.

A couple of questions: now that the walls are out-where are the load bearing posts? I'm wondering if it's possible to move the door. And if you are open to make the dining room open to the kitchen/island possibilities?

As far as choice A vs. choice B-- Where would the fireplace be? I would get a lot of use out of a fireplace in the LR, but not so much in the DR. Also it's not always easy to make a fireplace out of an old chimney (and removing one is much cheaper, we found, than restoring/rebuilding one.)

Also, make sure you have talked to HVAC people before taking the chimney out. In some areas, houses, direct vent isn't a possibility.

It would also help if you posted a current layout next to the proposed change to see if removing the built-in really gave you a great gain in function. Because unless it is a big step up, I think you should leave it. . . Also your cabinets look like their in good condition (another reason perhaps to leave it.)

Hi navi! It sounds like you have quite a project in front of you. Is there any way that you could imbed your pictures into your post? I was going to do it for you, but couldn't get them to copy from shutterfly into photobucket.

I think your kitchen layout looks pretty good. You may need to create a larger opening from kitchen to dining room, especially if the radiator placement is accurate (there looks to be only about 26 inches between radiator and corner of cabinet) Simply shrinking the cabinets on the range wall could solve that.

Regarding your other proposed changes: I would strongly suggest that you not make the current two bedroom upstairs into 3 bedrooms. The rooms, as listed on your proposed plan, are really too small to function well as bedrooms. The closets for the two current bedrooms are already small but would be almost nonexistant if divided into three rooms. We rented a house in San Francisco for awhile that was listed as a 3 bedroom but one of the rooms was 8.5' x 10'...that size is truly tiny for a bedroom.

I like the idea of you adding a half bath to the main floor of the home. That seems like an addition that would pay for itself in convenience as well as resale value.

Hope you get some other comments!

Sandy

Hi All, thanks for your comments & questions. Here goes:

Jenma: The loadbearing wall is the wall that divides the LR/DR...so moving the doorway between the kitchen & DR shouldn't pose a problem. Given the old-ness of the house, I'd prefer to keep the DR & KT as separate rooms. Trust me, you're not the first person to mention it :-). But I'm an old house junkie, so I'd like to keep the current room configuration.

I have no idea where I'd put the fireplace...I'm mulling the idea of building a family room in the walk out basement, and adding a fireplace there. Reason for not putting it in the LR, I have a baby grand piano, and I don't think I could fit a piano, furniture, fireplace & TV all in that room. So, I know I'm going off topic, but did you guys remove the entire chimney? I'm a little worried about doing the exterior work, particularly since I'm solo. And thanks about the HVAC suggestion...I'm having both my HVAC and structural engineer sign off on my plans to remove the chimney before beginning!

Challenge with the DR built in is that it juts into the kitchen almost 2 feet (shares the 'soffit' with the chimney). Given that the kitchen is already small, I thought gaining that 2 feet (by removing both) could really open up the room. And the cabinets are gone (demo fatality...trust me, they were much nicer from afar. 50 years of smoking and pets rendered them smelly and disgusting).

Busy: I'm pretty sure that doorway is standard 30 inches, but I'll double check. Regarding the radiator, do you (or anyone out there) have experience with under-cabinet heat in the kitchen? And will it work on a gravity feed water heating system?

And I'm debating the bedroom sizes as well. Its not uncommon in the older Boston suburbs to have small bedrooms (most can't fit King sized beds without a shoehorn). It's the classic resale value debate...2 bigger bedrooms versus 3 smaller ones. The 'X' factor is that my elementary school district is highly coveted (3rd best in state). My thought process is that when I sell, parents may be willing to live with one tiny bedroom to get into the school district. But I'm going to ask my broker that question as well..see what she thinks.

Yes, the downstairs bath is a must. It's only a pain when it's just me...its downright cruel not to have 2 lavs when you're sharing the house with someone. I think that will be a phase 2 (or 3, or 4) change, but I want the kitchen's rough plumbing & electric to be installed to facilitate moving the entry doorway. Seems like there is no end in sight!

Thanks again..and keep 'em coming!

And I will post the pics in the next update...have to figure out how!

We did remove the entire chimney "ourselves"--husband, brother and friend. It took a couple sledge hammers and a vacuum to clean up all the dust. Definitely not that difficult--just dirty! As far as exterior work, I assume you mean the roof patch (we hired a friend for that). . otherwise there was no exterior work.

Our basement is a walkout, so they threw most of the big chunks down the chimney and then used a wheelbarrow to take them to the dumpster. It might be harder if you have to haul all that heavy stuff up narrow stairs from the basement.

As far as making three bedrooms, I agree that many Boston homes have smaller bedrooms. However given that you have dormered ceilings (and it looks like low ones at that), you might want to think twice. Or at least consult a couple of local real estate agents before you do it. Especially if it's not something that YOU want. We don't have two kids (or one!) and we have a similar two big bedrooms situation and honestly I wouldn't convert them unless we absolutely needed to, because I prefer the openness of two rooms.

If you really want a built in-and have to lose the one you have because it's so deep--consider getting a corner built-in. I see them all the time on craiglist for a song to keep you old-time charm.

Buehl, Thanks for posting the layouts. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to put them directly into the post. If there are easy suggestions somewhere, could you point me to them, as I'd love to put up the 'after' ideas. Also, I confirmed, the Kit/DR doorway is standard 30. I moved the radiator as far into the center of the room as possible. I didn't see anywhere else to put it, did you?

Jemna, I know the feeling. I like the huge front second bedroom (which it would be be spare, because the back bedroom faces the gorgeous woods)...just if I'm installing all new radiators & heating system, it would be best to break the rooms up now, if I ever plan on it ;-)

And yes, buying an old corner built is what I was thinking...I don't like them quite as much as the traditional in-wall, but considering I use the kitchen alot more than the dining room, I figure better to steal space from the latter for the former.

Anyone else out there? Layout opinions, ideas?

Anyone used kickspace heaters in their kitchen?

Or have suggestions for old-time feeling above-the-sink window ideas?

Or non-canned lighting ideas?

Thanks in advance...

hi navi_jen! When you left the nice comment about my kitchen and said you were doing a kitchen in a similar vintage house, I had to look you up.

A couple of thoughts regarding option A: before you make definite plans to take out the chimney, do you know if your hot water heater also vents though it? Ours vents through our dining room chimney. I guess is depends if the water heater is gas or electric. Also, are you sure you want to remove the dining room built-in? If it were me, I think I'd try very hard to preserve that.

I think your proposed powder room is great. Have you tried playing with the space as an L shape (the left and top wall of the U in your above plan) plus the short wall that backs up to the chimney and the DR built-in? I can't see the dimensions well enough to know if that space could possibly house a counter depth fridge. If so, the stove could go on the left wall...just a thought. I'm nowhere as good at space planning as some of the pros around here. I just really hate to see original house elements removed. Smelly can be fixed.

I have under cabinet heat in my kitchen, but mine is forced hot air, so I don't know if my experience is relevant to you.

For windows above the sink, do you have the wall space for a bank of three small double-hung windows? It would be very traditional and in keeping with the rest of your windows.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you proceed!

We had the same choice to make and eventually decided to keep our chimney. Right now it does vent our water heater, and who knows - we may need to burn coal in the basement again someday!

Hi All...

Arlos Mom...I loved, loved, loved your renovation. I've done the cherry cabinets/dark granite look (former condo) which was stunning. However, since this is the 'grow old' house, which still has its original woodwork (albeit painted) I really wanted to plan a renovation that looked like it was part of the original design. But it seemed like every photo I looked at had the same canned lights/stainless appliances look. Now, I love professional appliances (used to work in the industry), and my parents have cans in their kitchen (which are great for lighting, but horribly hot)..so your remodel was right place, right time. I've already saved most of your photos in my 'planning' file!

In regards to your specific questions, yes, my hot water heater is vented through the chimney (its an old tankless system attached to my circa 1960 oil fired boiler). But I'm hoping to take advantage of all the conversion rebates & tax incentives right now to replace all the systems. But its a good point to make sure I'm scoping out a direct vent hot water system.

I do struggle with whether to remove the DR built in, as it is in good shape and only has 2 coats of paint on it. But the kitchen is SO small, and by removing it, I gain 2 feet of space and can move the kitchen/DR doorway to minimize cross traffic. And I figured I could buy a salvage corner unit and install it in the DR.

Any lurkers out there? Do you regret removing your built in?

I'm posting the proposed layout for all to see. Currently, the chimney wall is offset by only 24"..so yes, I could do a counter-depth fridge, but it would put a serious dent in my budget. And, swapping the placement of the fridge & stove could be problematic, as the stove venting would have to run smack dab under all the bathroom plumbing. Not ideal. Did you consider an L shape?

Lurkers out there...have you struggled with L versus U shaped kitchens? Good or bad?

I loved your bank of 3 windows. Were those posted in your specs? How big were the overall dimensions of the bank? And were they custom-made? In my brief online search, I couldn't find any stock under 3 feet tall. And would you mind sharing how much they cost? I have approx 6 feet that can be consumed by windows, and with a whole forest behind me, I'd love to maximize natural light where I can.

Also, was your woodwork unpainted? Since I'm going to remove the paint from the rest of the house's woodwork, I'm debating whether to do the same in the kitchen. I'm concerned about the darkness in a small space, but I love arts & crafts type kitchens.

And I did some quick research this morning on kickspace heaters. The ones I found aren't recommended for gravity hot water systems...may have to stay with the oddly placed radiator. Suggestions anyone???

Thanks in advance, and looking forward to everyone's comments.

{{!gwi}}

I have a 190? foursquare with lots of woodwork and built ins.

All of my original woodwork & builtins are still here and are stained. - they were refinished sometime in the 70's I believe. I wont have to remove any built ins to take out my wall. I was on the fence removing the wall, because of the "original charm" of the foursquare.. but I realized it was the only wall that had a regular door width opening - all the others are wide open, with built ins along the sides..

We arent 100% sure on our plans but we will open up the wall. We are going to build a header across the top similar to what is between the other rooms, and while the K/DR will be more open, they will still be clearly defined spaces.

My woodwork will be stained to match the rest of the house, they will be painted white, but a simple shaker door that will mimic the built-ins.

OK, so here's a wacky thought about your built-in: any chance they could flip it around and scoot it down and it could become a kitchen cabinet? I think it would look strange if new cabinets butted up against it, but if you have flexibility on door placement into the dining room, could the built-in be on a wall perpendicular to your radiator? In your drawing, your radiator is a foot deep. Is it really? You might not be able to move it, but you could probably find a slimmer one (6" deep) at an architectural salvage store.

I'm not sure I understand why the stove venting would have to run under the bathroom plumbing if you swapped the stove and fridge placement...aren't you adding new space to accommodate the powder room? Couldn't the venting run over the top and out the side? With the stove where you have it drawn above, where do you plan the venting to run?

You may be able to find a cabinet depth fridge at a scratch and dent appliance outlet. That could save you a big chunk of cash.

Our bank of 3 windows was custom made to accommodate our stained glass panel. It was pretty pricey. I think it is about 7 feet wide. You mentioned 3 feet tall; are you limited by a low ceiling height? If so, you could consider casements (mine are casements) rather than double hungs. A bank of 3 windows is a very traditional look for turn of the century kitchens.

Our kitchen is in an addition (new construction ), so our woodwork in there has always been painted. What is now our breakfast room used to be the old kitchen -- the woodwork in the was painted when we bought the house, and might have always been painted. The woodwork in the living room, dining room and front entry hall is all unpainted.

Hey navi_jen, I gave you wrong info. I was thinking my sink was 6 feet and my windows were 7 feet. In actuality, the sink is 5 and the windows are 6. So if you're looking at a bank of 6 feet of windows, mine are a good example of the width.

Thanks all...good ideas here..

JoyJoy, yes, headers are definately needed. I had the structural engineer come out yesterday to confirm the house was structurally sound & to get his suggestions for shoring up missing joists. And we definately need some new headers for the doorways leading from the LR to the Kt & DR. As well as adding some lally columns in the basement (to support the main beam). Yet another $5k in the chute...the finishes for the kitchen seem farther & farther away.

Arlos Mom..thanks for the window info. Given all the other 'to dos' I'm hesitant to get custom windows made...and I think casements just look wrong in an historic house. My first floor ceilings are standard 8 feet, I assumed 3 feet windows would be too tall (to accomodate the window & backsplash), perhaps I'll have to go to HD to check sizes. And, I'm struggling with the decision of if I should buy windows with alumimum/vinyl interiors, which would match the recently installed windows in the rest of the house...or get what I really want, wood windows. It terms of procuring historic looking windows, maybe its time to start looking at architectural salvage shops...which between MA & Maine, we have a fair number of them. But I will definately use yours as a visual example!!

In terms of repurposing the built in, your idea made me think of a new idea...using it for the basement rec room buildout! It's an interesting proposition to reuse it in the kitchen, but would like to try and find room in the budget for reclaimed wood cabinets, as I like the look (ie original to the house). I'm sure it will be a budget buster, but given that I don't have too terribly many cabinets, I hope they won't cost more than a Ford Focus. But, I do plan on building out the walkout basement, and will need to have an inset wall (due to new lally columns). Presto, reuse! Now I don't feel guilty about removing it (and because I do love DR built ins, I will be buying an antique corner cabinet to replace the one I'm removing).

In regards to the stove, I wasn't entirely clear on the bathroom. The kitchen is directly below the upstairs bathroom, and the tub will run from the sink to the outer left wall (which is where the waste stack is). I will be having the plumber come out next week for estimates, but I think it may be problematic to have the tub drain pipes and the stove venting in the same area. But I'll check...and same goes with the radiator widths (and wall clearance).

Thanks all...keep 'em coming!

Here is a link that might be useful: Reclaimed wood cabinets