I agree that the trend away from upper cabinets has led to "kitchen in a closet.".

The open airy space has hardly any storage. But the pantry is getting bigger and bigger. It will be like in the 20s with the icebox in the service porch, and a butler pantry and a larder for serve ware and food storage.

The "kitchen" will be a large island with seating, in reality the de facto dining room.

The first kitchen islands were small "extra" prep spots. Next came the MUST HAVE larger barrier island with too small aisles. Then came the large single island as the second "wall" without uppers in a galley kitchen. Then the kitchen windows expanded, and you had a double island galley with an island pushed against the window wall. Then came the "double island" with one functioning as the kitchen table and one as the prep---but still with a kitchen "nook" and a dining room as well.

I expect the next trend will be the kitchen archipelago. A series of island chains through the whole "open concept" with one being the games table, and another being the breakfast area, and another the prep area, and another the cooking zone, and one with nothing but refrigerator and freezer drawers serving as the cold storage zone. The battalion sized pantry could even disappear in favor of an island of nothing but pull outs for the paper towels and cereal.

..."the kitchen archipelago." LOL and your description of a future pantry is truly funny as well.

And this would be why I don;t have an island. We were planning on moving our kitchen, which was certainly doable and within budget just to get an island because *it's what we're supposed to do in my neighbourhood." Well I hated all the resultant floorplans, none of them made sense. I also hated the thought of taking down a wall and making it a really large open-floorplan that was going to be extremely cumbersome to plan and to live in.

We left the kitchen where it was, extended it and created an elongated G-plan that is truly functional and I thank my KD everyday for humouring me and allowing me to try different ideas but always gently guiding me on this journey.

Holly, that is too funny!

Archipelago indeed

I've noticed this too, most recently with swfr's kitchen. I've got the old-school kitchen with 4 doors and 3 low-silled windows. I don't understand why someone would build that kind of problem on purpose (not to say that swfr's kitchen rises to that level, but the dining room door breaks up the workspace).

I have actually seen an archipelago kitchen in a design mag. It was basically a galley with a cooking island on one side and a sink island on the other. I think there was a very short wall at the end for the fridge, but basically it felt like two islands swimming in open space.

Here is a link that might be useful: swfr's kitchen

Archipelagos are the wave of the future, so says GW! Everyone must have one ;)

Seriously, I am always amazed that so many new builds and custom high end homes have such awkward kitchen layouts. I've been browsing for real estate and can't help but look above my price range for ideas. Well, unlike Houzz, where some modicum of good design examples exist, the local real estate market sometimes exposes some very odd decision making. In fact, I saw a listing recently with a kitchen with a barrier island in a zigzag shape! I mean, if walking around it was bad enough, you actually had to navigate a small maze to cut across to the other side.

Swfr's kitchen has a lot of potential. I think there have been several examples that work really well in the space...and many have kept the same openings.

What I don't understand is the 'pantry in the corner' that many architects seem to prefer. I can see that the pantry should be easy to reach, but you also lose a valuable area of the kitchen.

I think Swfr's kitchen has a great pantry area and it's easy to reach, but not in the middle of the prep zone. I wish I had a larger pantry :)

Boy have I been wincing at these chopped up plans too, especially in new custom home designs that could be anything. They've have been happening for some while, of course, but I've felt an acceleration on this forum lately.

We seem to have new need for direct access and egress in as many directions as possible. The "women's domain" dead-end kitchens of the past used to just be seen as both stodgy and dysfunctional for an era when everyone is expected to pitch in. After this lengthy period of more and more open kitchens, though, I also suspect they may have come to actually FEEL wrong, too closed in. But also, the notion that backtracking is wrong has become pervasive--a kitchen must have direct access to and from as many peripheral areas as possible. So, where possible, chop yet another hole in the circumference...

On top of that, a collection of must-haves, nothing left out, certainly would contribute.
Middle of house location (access needed in ALL directions).
Island, even two sometimes.
Straight traffic flows past work centers, doorways lined up AMAP.
No such thing as too much counter space or storage, add another row.
Must-have specialty appliances, create places that don't block throughways.
Walk-in pantry.
Separated work stations.
Realization that minimization of corner cabinets can be highly desirable.
Notion that the refrigerator must be directly and closely accessible to dining/family as possible.
Similar notion that garage access must be as short as possible--top priority for many: straight line straight through work counter if that's what it takes.

And, of course, some people don't cook much these busy, 1.89 child per couple days and/or don't haven't learned what works well for them in a kitchen--setting them right up for the mood of the moment.

The realization that having to transport everything across open floor several times during the meal process is dysfunctional is an inevitable outcome of all this, and I'm guessing this intensification of the open idea may not last as long as many trends. Forever an optimist. :)

Of course, back in the old days, kitchens were messy and unattractive and a place for "servants" not entertainment. That's what the living room or parlor was for. But as servants disappeared and fancier appliances moved in, kitchens became more attractive and more family oriented with being "eat in" and more expensive, then they expanded.

Seems to me the most efficient kitchen is a galley. (Think of restaurant kitchens.) But they are small and don't accommodate guests or family who want to hang in the kitchen with Mom (servants are long gone). Thus the island. It allows for a larger kitchen yet maintains the efficiency of a galley by keeping the appliances near with maximum counter space. It also gives a space for guests on the far side who can keep company, yet stay out of the traffic flow for the cook. To me, it is the best solution.

And beyond a certain size, the space alone will necessarily add inefficiency. But builders want to build large so they sprinkle the kitchen functions throughout a very large area trying to make it look purposeful, but instead it just makes it more difficult to use.

Then again, so many people don't cook and just "dust" their kitchens, so them it can be a showpiece and need not be functional.

Thank you to all who explained this phenomenon much better than I.

Yes the pantry and main island is becoming HUGE! Perhaps the pantry will become so big that a prep sink will then be needed, then an extra oven, refrigerator drawers, then it will come full circle and we will be back at a U shaped kitchen.

Agree to island chain analogy, the example I wanted to post but it wouldn't work, had 3 islands!

swfr, if you are reading this, PLEASE do not think we are picking on your kitchen. Your situation is just one example of many who are trying to build a house but struggling with a difficult kitchen layout.

My thoughts are most in line with Rosie's. In today's quintessential kitchen, so many "must-haves" have resulted in an overly choppy main work space. I think the big culprits are 1) the island, because it requires so much floor space to make it comfortable. 2) the idea that the kitchen must be accessible from every corner of the house, meaning that you must have open areas in every direction. Other smaller details have helped the idea along, but these two have been the sledgehammer that's smashed the kitchen into multiple bits.

Personally, I think many "new" floorplans won't function particularly well. It's hard to beat the old-fashioned standards: The galley, the L-shaped kitchen and the U-shaped kitchen. I literally just typed in another post, Classic became classic for a reason. It works.

I also think too many people are simply responding to the "must haves" instead of actually thinking through and building the house they actually need. For example, most houses include FOUR eating areas: Casual space at the island, a kitchen table in a nook, a formal dining area, and an outdoor patio or deck eating area. In a society in which most "social meals" take place in restaurants . . . how does this make any sense?

What's ironic is that most of these chopped up kitchens actually do contain a galley, even if it's only 6' long. But then there's a cross counter added off one end--usually for a cleanup a center by window. That's for the smaller ones, which would have been L+island not long ago and U or G before that.

For larger spaces, walls are placed to define an outer perimeter. These in turn are pierced with doorways so that they also are disconnected and are then lined with more kitchen stuff.

Oh, BTW, FIVE eating spaces. Don't forget in the living room in front of the TV. Downplayed but real. :)

Debrak2008,

Thank you for bringing up the issue. Even you cited Swfr's example, I am actually thinking that you are talking about my kitchen desisgn. And yes, it is a new build. See, how common is the problem?

I agree that the biggest problem is the kitchen openning to all directions of dining, breakfast, and living. I have been sticking with the double island idea for a long time. I feel sorry for myself as I exactly contributed to this problem or shall I say I fall into the trap of letting kitchen be a severant of other areas even it is the most important and expensive piece in the house.

The timing of this thread has not been more perfect for me. As I am trying to "finalize" my kitchen design and a lot of GWers had helped me with it and I am still not there yet.

So please check out my thread on kitchen island clearance and help me out (It is now a bigger issue of kitchen layout but I could not change the title of the original post).

Thanks again!

Debrak- LOL! I've been sketching a pantry with a prep sink, wall oven/microwave and refrigerator in it!!! This is my attempt to NOT make the current 12'x10' kitchen any larger...so I'm making the pantry part of the kitchen, without removing the wall. Still a work in progress :)

Jeff, I have been following your thread and really glad have given a clean slate for ideas.

I truly wasn't thinking of anyone's kitchen in particular. I referred to swfr's kitchen only because it was already mentioned. I have been noticing this issue coming up frequently on GW. Recently I was looking at some floor plans for a possible new build in about 6 years. My frustration of the existing plans is what really set me off.

Many times posters come here when things are too far along, they are already over budget and frustrated. When they get the suggestion of starting from scratch often they bolt. I can relate as I came to GW with an addition all ready built, a bad architect designed kitchen plan, and limited options to fix things. Thankfully the great help I received here gave me a great kitchen.

MrsPete, I guess this is getting a little off topic, but your post about the number of seating areas gave me pause. At first blush, it does seem ridiculous, but I think that in many cases it is a result of the evolving function of the kitchen area (discussed to death in other posts). We are all becoming less formal, and the kitchen is becoming more central. The only thing that's really "new" (if a few decades is new) is the island seating. Many old houses have an informal "breakfast" nook and a formal dining room. The outdoor eating area - well, at least in the Northeast, that's a seasonal thing for the few short months when we can enjoy being outdoors.

If I had a new house, I would eliminate the formal dining room and keep the island seating. I love being able to converse with people while doing meal prep. As a kid, my mom was always shut off in the kitchen prepping while the guests were being entertained in the formal living room - awkward at best and not the way we live any more. I now live in a 100+ year old New England colonial, with a big formal living room and a big formal dining room. The owners before us added a family room off the kitchen. Guess where we spend 90% of our time? In the kitchen-family room-breakfast room. We are almost always together. If I could, I'd get rid of the formal rooms entirely. So much wasted space. But I can see why people would add eating areas where they spend the most time. Whether or not this represents a moral failing in society is another conversation.

oh lavendar that is too funny!!! I'm not saying it is a bad idea just pondering how the kitchen will continue to evolve. If you have a sink, oven and refrigerator you really don't have to come out of your pantry to cook. Reminds of the spice kitchen concept. Again not a bad thing. Sometimes I would like to be able to go in the kitchen and close the door for a while.

soibean you are not OT. I guess we are a society that wants to eat anytime anywhere. In the past we ate structured meals.

My 19yr old DS recently said he would like a victorian style home. He does not like open concept homes. He likes individual rooms with different purposes.

Debrak, you're making a big point central to all of this, I suspect, with that second paragraph.

This behavior does not have to lead to overeating, of course, and for many it does not, but if a social scientist were to correlate either the number of eating places in a home or (and) the rise of the openness/number of doors into a kitchen with the obesity rate, what might the result show?

debrak - to me it seems like we have just become less formal in the way we eat, but then, we've become less formal in the way we dress and the way we entertain as well. For me it's all good, I've always been an informal kind of person (my German grandmother is turning in her grave right now). The place where is see the difference most is actually in the car - I can't remember ever eating in the car when I was a kid, unless we were on a car trip a least three hours long. These days, the back seat of the car just gets littered with the detritus of kids' snacks. I have finally come down hard on that - not eliminating the snacking entirely, but making sure it all gets cleaned out, and limiting what is allowed. I'm trying to figure out what's changed there - maybe we are more on the go then when I was a kid, and grab things to eat on the go so that we don't waste time? It's certainly not because kids can't survive a 15 minute car trip without a snack.

Funny what you say about Victorian homes - there are lots of them around where I live, and I mostly hate them specifically because they have so many small, formal rooms, all chopped up into pieces. I love the high ceilings but I hate the floorplans. Different strokes I guess!

Interesting that this has become a topic of discussion. I am glad other people have noticed this choppy floor plan problem too.

Recently, I have been looking at new house plans in the possible, but unlikely event we may have to move due to work issues. I can not find a single house plan that has a great kitchen layout. They are all choppy and inefficient trying to accomplish too much at once. I don't understand the no upper cabinets and open shelving concept either. So, I am lumping it in there with the choppy inadequate layouts. Open shelving to me says more cleaning, dusting and wiping kitchen grease off. I am not sure I get it.

It's so disappointing to see unworkable kitchens, but maybe that IS what it's about. Maybe because people aren't cooking like they used to, the aesthetics trump any sort of functionality? So the chopped up nature never fully reveals itself since there is little cooking going on?

Anyway, I've decided if we do have to move....I am taking my kitchen with me!

Debrak- It's interesting that your son wants more of a divided function space. Maybe it's a reaction to all the open concept living? When you grow up with little rooms, you crave space...and when you grow up with large spaces, you want smaller, quiet areas with specific functions :)

I'm trying to do both...open up rooms to get more light, but keep some of the differences in function. I don't want one big space for everything...I do NOT like the TV in the kitchen. But I do love a table in the kitchen and lots of windows for herbs!

When we built our current house in 1997, I think we honestly got a bit lucky. This was in the days before the internet had any really useful information, so we basically did the floor plan on our own. We had an "inspiration floorplan", but that was it. No Houzz, no GW (how did we survive LOL!). I distinctly remember towards the end of the build getting a call from DH asking what kind of doorstops I wanted--my response was " seriously, there's a choice? Just pick something!"). Anyway, this discussion about kitchens made me think about our current one, I guess it's kind of a hybrid between an open and closed kitchen. It's on the back corner of the house, so there are only a certain number of ways to access it. But the overall floor plan is pretty open. I know at the time open concepts were gaining in popularity, but I didn't really want to hear kitchen noise if watching a movie/tv. We also wanted a big kitchen--knowing that at any gathering people end up in the kitchen--no matter what the size. So we built a big one that can accommodate a couple of loveseats in addition to table seating and bar stools at the island. We have absolutely loved this kitchen layout. Based on what I know now from GW, there are a few things I'd do differently, but not much!

I'm attaching a not-to-scale layout, in case anyone's interested. The back "wall" of the kitchen is all tall windows that go almost to the floor. The side next to the kitchen table has the same windows, up to where the kitchen counters start. Sink over window looking out to where the playset use to be.

The island is large (about 9.5 x 5). It's been great for us.

I hope this is useful to some of you!

Our kitchen reno is not quite finished yet, but we managed to create a functional kitchen by re-arranging and keeping the original U-shape footprint. (Many ideas gleaned from GW posts!) On the subject of eating areas, I think we have a unique set-up. We have a small formal dining room, which we can squeeze 6 people into if needed. But we host large groups of family and friends for holidays/birthdays and needed something more accommodating. We have a large (15 x 20) formal living room that we NEVER use. We turned the living room into a library/office with a banquet sized table. The table seats 12 comfortably, and can squeeze in more in a pinch. Between celebrations, we can use the table as a desk or craft table. Works for us!!

My little kitchen (built in 2000) is 9x11. It opens to the garage, doorway to the dining room and an peninsula with bar that opens from the living room. There are 5 upper cabinets and 6 lowers. One stretch of countertop is 7 ft long. When we updated the kitchen (finished last month) I made that long countertop 2" wider because I bake bread. Often. The saving grace of this kitchen is the pantry across from the washer/dryer (in the walk thru from garage). That pantry is 7 ft long and 9.5 ft tall. Holds a ton of stuff but no electrical outlets. Don't need them.

I've had 5 people working in this kitchen and no one was scrunched. From cabinet to cabinet it is a little over 7 ft of open space. I LOVE IT! I've had a big kitchen in a much larger home, but this one beats that one hands down.

I watch the new kitchens on this site and look in wonder at the huge kitchens that are really difficult to control--barrier islands, lots of appliances, lots of money, but fitting all that in one space (with seating redundancies) is a major headache. I admire the people on this site who offer their skills so generously. Bless you! You solve a lot of otherwise expensive mistakes!

This is our forever home. We are retired and this really works for us!

Anne- I've always liked your kitchen! Didn't you post pictures of your loveseats? :)

Weed- What a great idea! Library/office/craft room...and large dining room. Much better than a living room that wasn't being used.

The variety of choices and ideas this thread is coming up with is wonderful. Anne, our kitchen's too small for what you have (nice!), but we did cram a loveseat in.

Beachlily, how are your counters and appliances laid out? A 9 x 11 kitchen + pantry that works very well for a cook making lots of demands on it, including room for helpers, is worth noting.