My triangle is 12 feet and I love my 1-butt kitchen. It would drive me crazy to take 9 steps to get the milk, then do it again to return it. Then back because I forgot the egg. Will you need to walk around the island to reach the fridge? If it were me, I'd redraw the layout rather than walk that far. Especially if I had to turn a corner to round the island.

I've seen no bigger than 9 feet on a side, but it's a personal decision. Would it annoy you/other cooks because - it's long enough to forget what you wanted in the fridge? You would have to traipse around the kids, the dog or the mail pile, and get interrupted? Will you turn the same corner the same way and get sore? Things will get left out and spoil? Things will burn while you are gone? left the water running?

Or is it worth it (forever) because anywhere else the fridge blocks the view, sticks out or won't open fully, or breaks up a stretch of counter space you must have?

We drink mostly water and tea, and cook more with oil and water than with milk and butter (allergies). We tend to start cooking with a load of veggies, and then go back to the fridge later for condiments, and finally for leftovers. Walk yourself through a dozen family meals and count the number of fridge trips. Are you constantly adding a dash of milk or butter?

Fridge drawers might fit better if they are in the budget. Or a dorm size fridge for staples.

We built our kitchen into a 15' wide space (old DR) that is open to an adjacent den/DR on one side and foyer on the other; has a chimney wall separating it from the LR; and has a doorway into the old kitchen (now pantry/laundry room). The fridge is recessed into the old kitchen (projecting out about 12" into new kitchen), the sink is centered on the 15' wall, and the range is just around the corner from the sink (across from the fridge.

There is a 4' x 4' island in the center of the room. The distance between the fridge & island is ~54", between the range and the island is ~42" and between the sink and the island is ~42. I tend to use the area between the sink & range for prep. My one regret is that we opted not to jackhammer the floor to run plumbing and electrical to the island. We use it as a table and to roll out Christmas cookies :)

I constantly redesign the kitchen in my head, and the only thing I would change is to replace the island with a peninsula (from where the bookcase is now). Essentially, I'd seal off that walkway between the range and island and put in shelving for my growing collection of Le Creuset.

I don't even notice the walk to the fridge from the range. The only issue is when DD is "helping" in the kitchen and trails me too closely-LOL!

View from DR:

abbycat, I love your kitchen! It's tlooking like I'm diggin' all the GW "cat" kitchens... (cat_mom being my other alltime fave).

My sink/stove/fridge triangle is a bit more than 12 feet.
The aisle is 43" between counter edges, and 47" between drawer fronts in the base cabinets
That feels spacious for two people.

Small triange here though most people say "wow, what a big kitchen". I am not sure how to measure but I think it is 15ft. We only have two side walls to our kitchen and generally I am the only cook. There is plenty of room when others are around - the walkway space is 4ft wide. We even suffer through without a prep sink....there wasn't a good place for one. The walk-in pantry is the arched door next to the fridge. It is a very efficient kitchen.

I see I have different size pics going here, oops.

{{!gwi}}

I don't know dimensions, but I would say definitely don't put the refrigerator on the other side of the island from the sink and stove. My current kitchen is like this and walking around and around and around the island (and mine is a small island) is the most annoying thing about the whole kitchen. A prep sink in the island would have made a huge difference, but it is really a PITA to take everything out of fridge, prep on the island and then keep walking around it to get to the sink (to wash hands, veggies, put things in DW, etc).

If you can put in a prep sink or put the fridge elsewhere, you should consider it. It's not really the amount of steps but the fact that the island becomes a huge obstacle in your path.

I LOVE your kitchen, lv_r_golden! We are in the midst of having an architect design our home for Alaska. I love L-shaped kitchens with an island & yours is perfect. I don't think my kitchen is big enough for your layout - my sink is in the corner which has a window.

I thought about putting the sink in the island but my island is only 6 feet long...right now I have a prep sink in the corner furthest away from the sink.

How do you like your sink in the island? I always make a huge mess since I cook a lot & that's the main reason I did not opt for my main sink there.

Can you post your kitchen plan with measurements? My space is 15' x 12' with the pantry behind one of the walls...part of the 15' is walking to pantry/greenhouse space.

Thanks! :)

I actually was planning a big kitchen upgrade until I realized that I would really hate increasing the size of my work triangle. Even though I have a large kitchen the triangle is tight 7 feet is the longest leg. I do have my ovens outside the main triangle and that seems to work fine. They are 11 feet from the sink. Go through the motions of cooking one of your favorite dishes in the "new" layout and then decide if you can live with that distance. Everyone works differently in their kitchen.

lv r golden, I cannot find your kitchen in the Finished Kitchens Blog. What granite and tile do you have???????

We are gonna walk a lot, but nothing is in the way. New kitchen has two triangles--one is a straight line 12 feet long with prep sink in center; roundtrip is 24 feet; other has same 12-foot line as hypotenuse and 16 foot detour to and away from second sink--total is 28 feet. Also have toaster oven, microwave, and induction hotplate to create additional flexible variants on triangle.

Very different from my previous little kitchen that would not allow a second cook. Goal is for two or more cooks to work in new space without saying "excuse me."

Sounds like some people are fine with it, but I just did a very expensive construction phase to get rid of exactly that!! I HATED it!!!! I would be stirring a pot and think it needed a splash or pinch of something that was in the fridge and I'd have to figure out where in the process I could find time to put down my spoon and dash for it. It was AWFUL!!! Yeah, it's fine if you're making a recipe and you do all your mise en place before you start cooking, but if you're just whipping up some pasta or a soup and need something? What then?

My fridge hardly moved, but I moved my cooktop to the wall by the sink so that the hike is half of what it was before, about 8', and that's actually fine. Because the old kitchen had me so skittish I also put fridge drawers in my prep area across from the stove. I wanted them anyway, but I keep milk, butter, leftover wine and roots in there, always, so they're right at hand. I've been known to chop an extra onion on the fly because it's right there and I can. My new kitchen functions well when there are 5 or more people working in there, but it was also important to me that a single cook be able to work efficiently as well.

I couldn't figure out a good place in the prep/cooking area for our fridge. It forced me to really think about the way we use the fridge and I realized that if I had to make a choice, I would prefer to have the fridge close to the table than close to the range and sink. We tend to make lots of trips between fridge and table when getting ready for or cleaning up after meals. I have found that it was easy to start thinking ahead while prepping to reduce the number of trips to the fridge.

When planning the kitchen I thought I would prep veggies on the counter between the fridge and prep sink. It turns out I really like prepping at the peninsula so I grab things out of the fridge and place them on the peninsula then walk around to prep (using the big sink.) Since the prep sink is in the main walkway through the kitchen (and next to the dw) it gets used for lots of other tasks.

Here's our layout. The wall at the top (with the main sink) is 13'3" long and the kitchen is 16'3" from sink wall to sink wall.

{{gwi:1589643}}

The range is to the right of the peninsula.

{{!gwi}}

Thank you, Melaska. re: sink in island. I like it, and for every day casual eating it is not an issue with the mess, if we eat at the island, noone cares and if we are at the bfast table, you can't see the mess in the sink and if it is a nicer "event" meal, things can get stuffed into a dw and out of site and we are likely eating in the dining room. For really big groups, chances are we use the island to serve but I would cook ahead and not have a mess. We built the house, finished summer 2007, don't really have a plan to scan, I designed most of it. I just measured the cabinet runs on both walls and they are nearly the same at 16.5 ft, but we did use space up on the 60" range and the 48" fridge that you might not. That footage is just the cabinets, not the wall with the pantry door. The island is 11.5ft long, 50in wide at the ends, 60in wide in the middle.

Kayl - no, it never occurred to me to post it, I found this site after we built. The granite is Venetian Gold and the tile is Walker Zanger 3x6 beveled brick from the Alhambra collection. Not sure of the color name any more. It is a red bodied hand made tile with lots of imperfections and personality.

ttla - what space do you gain when you move your frig? it might make it worth it if that "real estate" is put to a more desirable use. (Though just for me, I tend to go for fewer steps) Best of luck with your kitchen.

Having felt rather stupid after posting, I thought I'd reassure myself by looking up recommendations by pros. Here's one website that summarizes the "Thirty-One Kitchen Design Rules." Note to TTLA: It addresses the question of interfering structures.

The pertinent topic ... and I quote...
Rule 3 - Distance Between Work Centers
In a kitchen with three work centers the sum of the three traveled distances should total no more than 26' with no single leg of the triangle measuring less than 4 feet nor more than 9 feet.

Notes:

 A major appliance and its surrounding landing/work area form a work center. The distances between the three primary work centers (cooking surface, clean-up/prep primary sink, and refrigeration storage) form a work triangle.

 When the kitchen plan includes more than three primary appliance/work centers, each additional travel distance to another appliance/work center should measure no less than 4' nor more than 9'. Each leg is measured from the center-front of the appliance/sink.

 No work triangle leg intersects an island/peninsula or other obstacle by more than 12".

Here is a link that might be useful: 31 rules for kitchen design, includes triangle

lv_r_golden hi WHAT granite did you use, I'm in the process of picking out mine and love yours. thanks

Lovely kitchens! Ttla, a large part of it is always going to be about tradeoffs. I barely had room for an L, work island, and storage on wall opposite long L. I would love to have a tight triangle, stand at the stove, 1 step sideways to fridge to get a splash of fish oil.

However, for me, putting it anywhere on the L turned out to be out of the question for significant esthetic reasons, including not being THE view diagonally from the living room, not being in the main view down the length of the house to the garden, not having it separate me from the breakfast area, not taking room I wanted for a window, and just plain not being a giant mass where I wanted (needed) airiness. So it went on the inside wall.

I just stepped it off from my work place, 1 around the corner of the island and 5 more, the same back. Irritating? Not for me, just less than perfect but that thought only occurs when I'm reading this forum. :) It's the way it had to be.

BTW, how a kitchen feels and pleases its owners esthetically may just be the single most important function to consider, probably even for many who don't believe that.

My work triangle in my old kitchen was too big and by the time I finished preparing a big family meal I was exhausted, so my goal was to make it smaller.

I ended up keeping the sink, cooktop and fridge in basically the same place BUT..... I added a peninsula and "suddenly" the work triangle was much more manageable. I did move my fridge in (it used to be on the end). The peninsula is my primary work area, so having everything within "grabbing" distance is very convenient.

I think it would drive me nuts to have to walk around an island every time I wanted to get to the fridge, and then back around the island to get to the cooktop or sink.

Good luck with your remodel.

Good advice! I'm going to try and post my floorplan as soon as I figure out how my scanner works ;-)

My sink is in front of a window to the backyard, and my range is to the right on an adjacent wall, forming an "L." These are the only two walls with windows, which led the architect to place the fridge around the island and on the wall parralel to the wall with the range. That's not an ideal work triangle, but has aesthetic benefits.

I've been torn between practicality and beauty. Also, I'll have a built-in breakfast nook at the far end of the room, opposite the sink. This means that if the fridge goes where it's most practical, it'll be right up against the nook area, so someone will have to sit by the fridge. But Zeleman, you make me think that's not such a bad idea.

Also, If I keep the fridge on the same wall as the range, I won't have any interference from non-cooks, as the other side of the island is the main thoroughfare. I guess it's better to just figure out how to post this...

Thanks everyone. I've been working all week on floorplans, and having advice makes me feel so much more confident (especially if I'm going against the architect's recommendation.)