rhome... I'd like to try and keep the sink there because that's where the sink and DW is currently. In the current layout they are in the wall that I'm removing the top of. That is the only renovation of wall removal we're doing. On the inside of this wall:

Right now the cooking wall only has a regular electrical outlet. It used to be the dining area. It backs onto the bathroom which is why I'm hoping it wouldn't be too complicated to get a prep sink in there. I know it isn't perfect but tried to make the best use of the space I have.

This is looking from the area with all the big windows to where the current pantry and frig is. That wall is 9' L. Originally, I was going to take out the pantry to open the space up but now... not. I think it helps to make the kitchen functional, I needed wall space.

Oh rhome... I see what you're saying about the sink run. Move it back in on that 5'L wall above the pantry door. That would address malhgold's point about the overhang and peninsula being too close to the table. I could move it in 18" and then have the overhang butt up to the window frame (free form like). That would give me 18" more in the eating area. The eating area is 10W x 16'L. My table is a 42" round and opens with a leaf to seat 6. The small rectangle and two circles you see on the upper right are a cool cherry dry sink/liquor cab that someone gave us. I thought I could flank it with the two extra chairs from the table when we don't have the leaf in. I'm not sure if I did it correctly to scale. I could move the table anywhere back there actually. In my other plans I had a banquette, but I was going all out with moving everything. Now, we're going to work within the confines of what we have so I have to give up some things.

The pantry is 10'Lx6'W and on the left where the door opening is. I'll keep weird kitchen stuff and extra canned goods/cerals in there. I plan on storing dishes in the two 24" cabs on the sink run. Pots, pans, cooking utensils in the drawers on the cooking run. Baking stuff and bowls in the 36" on the peninsula. And everyday utensils in the 24" on the peninsula. Mugs and glasses will go in the uppers on the frig wall and I'm sure I'll find something to put in those 2 36" drawers.

malhgold...That is where the current sink is, exactly in fact. That's why I'm trying to make it work. Come to think of it, that very fact may make it not worth moving everything down 18"... I'll have to ponder that and see what he says about how involved it is. If it's alot of trouble... it's not worth 18" to me.

Remember... it'll just be the two of us. Lots of visits from friends and family; but usually just us. Do you think it'll work? Does my explanations make sense?
And david123... I feel real at peace with this. I don't know how all this planning got away from us. I didn't realize how dead set against it DH was on many levels. I initiated the notions and he was on board. When the architect got involved it kinda took on a life of it's own. It became very divisive and I suddenly realized; what are you thinking? Like a brick hitting me in the head I recognized what's important to us in life and it goes way beyond a dream kitchen.

OH.. and please excuse the mess in the pics. Nobody lives there since our tenants trashed the place 8 months ago. It's been an ongoing construction zone ever since.

The doorway on the left will be the walk in pantry (was the laundry room. The house is one level. In below the kitchen is the family room and entrance to the house. Two of the bedrooms are directly off a short hallway between family room and kitchen. The other bedroom is off the pantry in what used to be the garage. And that's all folks!! ...''cept for an awesome backyard where we'll spend 50% of our time....:-)))))

My thoughts were that if you could plumb and drain a prep sink, no reason you couldn't plumb and drain a main sink and dishwasher.

Without a prep sink it would be a deal breaker in a kitchen plan to me to go 12 ft and around a little peninsula to get washed veggies from the sink to the stove. I know it's possible, like loading everything on a tray or in bowls, but it's certainly far short of ideal.

I'm not good at translating the photos you've shown us into a view from above, like for a floor plan. Where, currently, is the stove?

ANY chance of extending the fridge wall 18" so you can move the cooktop with 30" on each side over there? (left to right: 30" cab, then cooktop, then 30" cab w/speedcook, then fridge) The few studs and a little sheetrock would be well worth it to me.

The old stove was on the wall to the right of the pantry door. I think there was just a small cab next to it on the left and then there was the sink run wall forming an L. I could extend the frig wall some... would give a more closed in appearance but I'll play with it to see what it'll look like. The only floor plan I have of the entire house is from some closing papers he had. It doesn't have an dimensions on it. I'm using powerpoint to draw. I learned how to download graph paper (someone suggested it) and imported it to draw on. And I was so proud of that!! I never lived in this house. Just used to go visit and hang out on weekends when we were dating.

I'm not sure if you mean to put the 30" wall oven under the counter on the bottom frig run AND the OTR speedcook MW too? What would I then do with the 10' wall on the right? Would it be too weird to have it as part baking counter... long uninterrupted run and part pantry wall? I could forget about making the laundry room a walk in pantry and just leave it as a laundry room. That would make DH very happy since he then wouldn't have to "shore up" the storage room that's on the side of house and turn it into a laundry room. I don't know how I should use that wall. I'm not looking to a full wall of floor to ceiling cabinets. I think it'll look to heavy for what I'm trying to accomplish but I do know that that 28" inset is valuable real estate in such a small home so I want to use it wisely. I'm working on an alternative layout with the frig wall extended but wanted to make sure about what you meant regarding the ovens.

If you could just show on graph paper what the existing layout is now, I think that would help alot. Even if you just draw it out in pencil and scan or take a photo of it.

Sorry, I missed the oven. It could go either place. I was thinking you'd have both over by the cooktop, as you'd planned in the layout above...but by the fridge instead. All you'd be missing is the optional prep sink, which then become unnecessary, because of the main sink's proximity. If you ever move hot pots or pans from cooktop to oven, I'd want it close to the cooktop. If you dream of baking with more elbow room, though, it could stay on the right side, anchoring a baking center.

I do think if it would help you in not moving the laundry, you could do a big wall pantry on that right side. To save money and avoid the heaviness of full-ht cabinets that you don't want, you could just extend the wall from the back half of the room toward the family room, so that you build in a 28" deep closet-style pantry. You could use cabinet type of doors, or bifolds in any kind of pretty door style you wanted...Keep them the color of your wall or partly opaque glass if you want them to stay less visually heavy.

My idea of moving the cooktop does close in the room 18 more inches, but that allows the oven and/or speedcook-micro to fit, gives nice work-counter on either side of the cooktop, and I really and honestly don't think it would make an appreciable difference in the feel of openness to the house. To me it would be a very valuable compromise...Lots of gain for not much loss.

Old layout best I can recollect!! I may be off a foot or so on the sink placement. The thick line is the supporting wall which we're going to remove and add in an ibeam for support.

There are no appliances there anymore.

Here is what I think you were suggesting. Whaddaya think?

This is what I am thinking for the right 10' wall if I went with this layout as opposed to the other one. What if I put 2 24" pantries with doors hinged on opposite sides. They would be fitted with all pullouts. Then 36" draw and 36" message computer? Glass uppers above both? Pantry like this:

I like this last one with the cooking area next to the fridge and across from the prep sink in the peninsula. You might also want to consider one of the many nice ranges on the market right now that have two ovens (GE Cafe comes to mind). Since the range only takes up 30", you'll have better storage possibilities.

Looks like you're looking at ikea. We've also scaled way back and will be going with ikea (and not knocking down walls I wanted to knock down, or putting in new magnificent glass walls, either). Some days I feel "harumph" about the decision, but most days I feel glad that I won't feel like I'm leveraging my future (and my kids' futures) on a silly old house.

Seems much better to me...How about to you? Is it disappointing you in any way?

If you feel it would benefit you, you could extend your little peninsula another foot, leaving you with a 4 ft opening between it and the fridge, which seems like it would be adequate.

I can't do a range because my one true desire is an induction cooktop and the only induction range I know of is a Diva at a cost of $8900. That'll be my entire appliance budget.

I had once consider a Nana Glasswall System against the back wall. It's around 16 ft and would have cost about $25,000. I'd rather be able to troll around on our small but comfortable boat, travel in our older but comfortable motor home (if gas costs ever come down), have $$ to help my kids buy their first home, one day take kids and future grandkids on a grand family vacation at Disney. Now that beats out a glass wall system, a larger bathroom/closet, and custom cabs.

This 2nd layout doesn't have a prep sink... and I'd lose the walk in pantry saving it to it's original state as a laundry room. You think the 2nd one?

Do I save money buying a vent hood that goes under a cab as opposed to a chimney style one? I really prefer the more modern look of the chimney style with glass and lighting.

If it's really just the 2 of you most of the time, do you really think you need a prep sink? Does DH help out in the kitchen alot? If not, I would save the money.

Re: hood. I think if you take the price of a cab and the hood, it would/could come close to the chimney style hood you want. If that's something you really want and you can work it into the budget, I say go for the hood you want.

Yep... just one wanting to retire teacher and early retired cop due to an injury. It's actually almost a one person cooking environment. Cooking is a hobby for me, and I'm the one in the family that everyone comes to for Holiday dinners. He'll sometimes prep, cut my veggies, whip stuff. Often, he load the DW while I'll clear-wipe the table. I typically clean up as I cook. I will miss having the sink by the stove as I often drop things in there while cooking, but I can live with that. Actually, it may entice DH to do the washing while prepping for me. We'll use the cooktop probaly twice a day, the oven less often, the MW always.
DoHow do you guys feels about putting some kind upper cab on the 3' wall section by entrance to the laundry. I could keep the coffee maker on the counter there and the mugs/glasses in the cab. Would it look strange with no lower cab below it?

I missed your post rhome... I don't know if I really need another foot on the peninsula. It's 5' long and I thought I'd use it for prep/baking. I'd store bowls and baking stuff in the 36" drawer. Plus I thought I'd have room in there for eating utensils. Easy for setting the table or overhang and easy to put away from the DW. I usually take the flat basket out and lay it on the counter by the drawer. I thought I could get 24" with a top drawer for spoons, measuring cups, whisks, and doors underneath to store the mixer. DH can lift that bugger up for me. I'm still thinking I'd make that 5' peninsula lower. I know I've read on IKEAfans where you can modify a cab to do that and still have drawers. Any odd ball pieces I was going to put in the pantry now back to laundry room, can be placed in the behind the upper doors of the 2 24" pantry cabinets. Is this sounding like a plan or I am just emotionally exhausted and psychologically drained?

If you want to keep the walk-in pantry (which I would), you can do something else with the righthand wall...Your baking area (with prep sink if you want) or some other buffet, storage, or display area. Like Malhgold, I had wondered about your need for a prep sink if the cooking area was close to the sink, since you'd said in previous threads that no one helps you. I also thought you sounded doubtful about being able to add plumbing to that side of the room for a prep sink or anything else, especially when I suggested doing the main sink over there. This is repeating myself, but I'm not crazy about Plan 1 with the prep sink, and I wouldn't consider it all without the prep sink. JMHO

The wall cabinet you're asking about...Maybe you could do some kind of cool-looking cabinet that ran from that 3' space all the way over to that little wall?

Wouldn't it have to be a wall cab otherwise the a base cab would prevent me from opening the drawers on the end of the sink run? OR... OHHHH... do you men 5' run of upper cabs against that wall? Could use the glass uppers from IKEA.
Like this one:

Or this one:

Actually, I just meant an upper that is over the the left side of the 24" drawer base, but extends toward the pantry door 4-5 ft....So just like you have it, but with an upper on that pantry wall. Does that make sense? So it's 90 degrees to the sink run of cabinets.

We cross-posted last time, but want to say again that I don't know why Plan 2 would force you to give up your pantry. It gives you an option, but if you don't want to take it, don't. Like I said, I wouldn't! :-)

I don't plan on a prep sink with plan 2. I'll have the large main sink directly against from the cooking area. If I keep the pantry what if I used that space for open shelving to displays family photos and pretty things? I don't have a whole lot of other wall space in that kitchen with only one wall of uppers (and maybe some cool uppers for mugs, cups, glasses on the 5' wall.) The back eating is pure windows on ALL sides. I'm soooooo happy I'm not getting rid of any of those windows.

I don't feel plan 2 forces me to give up the pantry. To the contrary, I think the pantry would be invaluable expecially since I want it simple. Narrow depth shelves, Costco purchases, maybe a cheap extra freezer to use for bulk purchases since we're giving up the insane idea of a 48" built in frig. That decision alone saved me between 4k-5K. What do you think of open shelving and a message area? Could have a chair there too? I'm on the laptop all the time for both school and home so it would give me a place to work and store my papers outside the kitchen table. Our bedroom will be very very small so I can only have the neccessities in there. In fact; our bedroom set in large and we may have DH put his armoire in the 2nd bedroom and he'll use that closest. That was one of the compromises we came up with to stave off the extension.

I guess I misunderstood. I thought when you referred to 'losing the pantry', I thought you were lamenting it. (Maybe that's just because I would be!) I also thought you were viewing the lack of prep sink as a downside to the new plan. --Just one of the problems with writing/reading as a form of communication...You can't hear tone of voice and get the whole idea of someone's reaction.

So good... we're on the same page. We even meant the same thing about the wall cabs on the 5' L wall! I think it'll be perfect for all glasses/mugs with the DW close by and that 24" end cab is where DH's coffee maker can sit. He definately won't be one of place it behind appliance garages so I'll have to continue to live with my kitchen looking like someone actually uses the place. As long as there's not clutter ... I'm happy.

What do you guys think of open shelving and a computer center on the 10' R wall? I love the fact that I would not have to built a 2' wall in to give the fun a finished look.

OH... 3 stools on a 7' run for the overhang? Or.. can I squeeze 4?

There are people here who would never have more stools than will fit according to the 2 ft/person 'recommended standard.' I am not one of them. Of course it depends on the stool size and style, and the size of the people, but 3 will have tons of room, and 4 will likely be OK. We had backless stools I got at a restaurant supply store for our last house...We usually had 5, but could squeeze in 6 at a bar that was about 7 ft long. I think you can see in the photo that there was comfortable room between the 5 stools.

It sounds like you could definitely use the work/desk/computer area on that right-side wall. As far as open shelves or cabinets, I am one to prefer storage with doors, as I don't want to keep it 'display perfect' all the time. I would want to store extra printer paper and other office goods above a desk area..But if you only intend it for decorative items, or other things you don't mind seeing, it should be fine.

Oh that's right...I think I was recalling sarschlos_remodeler's house (I think!!)...oh well! Anyway...I think you've definitely got your priorities straight!

I like the 2nd plan best (the 20:10 post). I'm a little confused...where are you putting the pantry (you said you won't lose it)? Or is it in the Laundry Room?

The 24" cab in the peninsula ...what about turning it 90o so it faces into the aisle b/w the refrigerator & peninsula? It would make the items in it accessible from both the left part of the kitchen as well as the right part and DR.

What about putting in a 48" corner cab (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19814003) on the wall west of the DW, pulled out 6" from the north wall then a corner wall cabinet (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S09823606) + 30" wall cabinet (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S09812033)...that will give you cabinet space + counter space all along that west wall...

[The 6" from the north wall would give you filler b/w the DW & cabinet north/south; you may have to move the DW & rest of cabinetry east 3"-6" for filler east/west...to accommodate drawer pulls + DW!]

Love the new mindset, remodelfla! Good perspective. I also love Adel birch cabs and totally agree with your desire for an induction cooktop.

I have been wrapped around the axel so much w/ our design -- I work on various options all the time and yet feel paralyzed by all the choices and tradeoffs. So I am trying to focus on what we really want/need, and the more I think about it, the more I want induction. In a small kitchen, it just makes sense.

I like the idea of an undercounter oven next to it -- and I like your idea of the MW over that oven...not sure how that'll look, but it's an interesting idea. Will have to mock that up w/ the Ikea drawing tool sometime.

You really sound at peace. I am envious. :-) Will try to work in that direction myself.

Chris

Good Morning All,
buehl... Thanks for investigating and sending those URL's. It's a great idea to access more counter space and utilize the west wall. My concerns are: I lose the drawer storage I wanted for dishes next to my DW. I'd like my lowers to be drawers. I have a corner pullout cab in my kitchen now; and it's functional; but not my favorite setup. I find so much space wasted but I probably don't use it right. I'll have to play and angle the peninsula cab. I kinda wanted to use that space for baking/prep. Would a straight run be more conducive to that or can it work with it angled? What was the laundry room will be a walk in pantry. (10'Lx6'W). I want simple wood shelving of various depth. If room, I'd even keep an extra chest freezer in there for overage. The washer/dryer will go into this storage room that was built againt the laundry room. What that'll mean is we have to replace the window in the pantry with a door and I'll have to walk through the pantry with the laundry. Not ideal... in our big extension plans I was going to build a laundry room off the bedroom. That would have been great and maybe it's something we can consider in the future.

scootermom...it was a process to get where I am and alot of angst with my DH. I'm not sure how certain things will look either. I want to play with the IKEA planner but will have to use my son's computer since I have a MAC and it's not compatible. Good luck to you!

Remodelfla, you know where to find me if you want some 3D views that might help you see what you've planned.

Oh Rhome... that would be so AWESOME! Especially, if I could see it with the message/computer and open shelves of some sort on the right wall. I'd really like not to have to close in that wall 2' to form an end to cab run. So... I thought open shelves would address that concern... maybe? I really do appreciate what you do! THANKS!!

This probably won't help you with layout, but I thought you might like to see a Florida Beach House Kitchen that could easily be done with Ikea cabinets. I believe the Lidingo door is similar to the picture.

Here is a link that might be useful: Florida Beach House Kitchen

bbstx, that's a cute one! Love the colors.

I really like your last layout. You have plenty of working space yet everything is within a few steps of each other. Since you're using the peninsula for baking you may want to consider making the 24" cabinet lower in height. I have a 57" long bilevel peninsula with 27" wall oven and a 30" drawer base that's 32" high. It's my favorite part of my existing kitchen and I could never live without that low counter space again. Trying to incorporate it into my new layout has been a challenge but it's my #1 priority.

Also, your 30" cooktop will most likely require a larger than 30" base cabinet. I was very surprised to learn this a while ago but they need a 29 1/2" cut out and the interior of a 30" base cabinet is usually 28 1/2". This could be difficult with Ikea cabinets, do they make a 33" base?

rhome... how in the world do you do that so fast? I promise you... it would take me about 4-5 hours to do a rendering in 3D with the software I have. You're absolutely amazing! Thank you so much!! It really works, don't you think? Not as dramatic and funky as the opposing islands but still open, very functional, and built to my needs. I can use materials I love in any space! I really like it. I'm giving DH a few days break on all the remodel talk... I'll show him this when he asks me what's up with what I've been working on

bbstx.... what a cute kitchen that is! I think I'm going to stick with wood tones over white, though white would give me more choices I like in IKEA. Originally, DH was going to build our cabs out of red birch. But I think IKEA will be equal cost to doing our own and it'll be much easier. I may ask him to build our bathroom vanities. That would be a cool project and I think he'd enjoy the design process if he could create the finished product.

cheri... I am thinking of making the peninsula shorter since I'm 5' tall. I mean I've cooked on standard height cabs my entire very long adulthood so I'm used to it. BUT... it sure would be more comfortable if it were lower. Since I want to take advantage of as much storage as possible, I'm going to get drawers. I believe I've read on IKEAfans ways you can modify a cab to a lower height and still use drawers. If not, I'll deal with standard height another 25 years.

OH... I was thinking... I know Rhome... you're a fan of closed cabs. You really don't think open shelves would work? I, am admittedly, not a slave to cleaning/dusting by any means. Given a choice between dusting and doing something outside.... I am outside. So what would you think if I put this there?

It's 43" wide, 25" deep, and not sure about height... maybe 80" Would it look ugly with Adel Birch (like pictured above?) I don't want to be too any one thing because... as crazy as this sounds... I like a little of so many different things. I liked that armoire so bought it off ebay (before craigslist). I was thinking I'd sell it before the move but then thought of using it there. Not nice enough? I dunno... It kinda goes with my dining table (another find) which would be at the opposite (dining end of the room). Maybe having two similar in color yet individual pieces would anchor the room. Here's my dinging table.
{{gwi:1679123}}

The pic on the back wall is my favorite art currently in the home. Love the colors...

As you can see I have very "eclectic" taste. Would that armoire piece be too heavy looking? Man .... I'm wordy....

According to the GE, the cutout width for the GE Profile 30" induction cooktop is 28.5". So there is at least one option (whew, I was worried about that!).

Here's an article that discusses the cutout size problem:

http://theinductionsite.com/replace-combos.shtml

Remodelfla, I like this latest layout. And rhome, I love the 3D's you did -- awesome view out that big window!

I love the armoire. I'm not really sure how it will look next to the tall cabs you have shown above. (Were you thinking of keeping the IKEA tall cabs and putting this in next to them?) Both the armoire and those cabinets have pretty strong vertical lines to them, but different, so would compete and clash, I'm afraid. With either, it'd be nice to have it beside something with a horizontal design to it.

The advantage you have here, though, is that you can try it and if it doesn't 'do it for you' when all is said and done, fill the space with your original plan. Since you're using IKEA, you don't have the problem of ordering or building cabs all at once to make sure they'll match. I do think it'll be nice to have the connection with the table. Just make sure the wood you choose for the cabinets coordinates or contrasts with the armoire wood the way you like.

My dh built our cabinets (or, I should say, is still working away at building all the cabinets for our house). He has experience making cabinets, teaches cabinet-making, and has a good shop to work in, but it still takes quite awhile. He has the process down to an efficient system, and accomplishes it much faster than he used to, but it's just time-consuming to get everything right. If you want them done and in, and can work with their sizes, I think IKEA is a good solution.

Rhome... I have to ask you a big favor. I'm studying the layout and love it however I'm a little uncomfortable with the clearance between the prep table and frig. What if I were to move the prep table against the 5' wall running flat against it. That inset is only about 15" but it would be OK if it extended in width beyond it CAUSE... I would then move down the entire sink run 2'? I could free from the granite with some kid of support to still meet up to the window ledge. Would that work? Would there by any conflicts I don't see in my head? What do you think? Let me tell you girl... you have the setup in that little house right on the money. It's EXACTLY how it would look if you were looking down from either front or back.

You have to remember that I have software meant to do architectural plans and renderings and it is very user friendly. I have learned tricks and gotten faster over the years, I suppose, but I can't take credit for having wonderful software that gives these nice results. I am SO thankful to have it, since, as I have said so many times before, I don't know how I could have done the design job I did on our house and kitchen without being able to see the plans like this.

Do you mean put the butcher block down under the upper on the pantry wall and shift everything down? You would have so little access to it, it would lose a lot of its purpose/benefit...Plus, I'm betting DH's coffee pot would end up living on it. ;-) The other thing is that you will lose the storage from that cabinet you're locking into the corner.

I think you have a lot more room in front of the fridge door than you think. It may look tight in comparison to the rest of your room, but your aisles are very wide compared to most other kitchens. The way it is the peninsula can be a landing space handy to the fridge...Like when you are getting things out to take to the table...or in reverse, when you clear the table to the butcher block and then can go and do turns from it to load the fridge.

As you can tell, IF I'm understanding the idea right, I am not totally in favor, but here it is. If the whole work area is tucked back there, you can see you end up with a hole where the counter drops off...So I've done it 2 ways.

We have a miscommunication. I actually don't plan on using the tall IKEA cabs. That was only if I DIDN'T use the laundry room as a walk in pantry. But since I'm deciding to keep the walk in pantry that where I was talking about doing open shelving then the 36" drawer unit, and then the desk/computer center. The IKEA cabs were only if I didn't have a pantry. I was thinking of using the armoire instead of open shelving and then a drawer unit and then a desk so there would definately be horizontal lines. I could always use different cab material on that run to tie into the armoire better. I could even paint/stain the armoire to go with what I want but I'm not too much of a painted wood girl. Curious to see what you or anyone thinks of the moving the prep table down flat against the 5' wall.

Looking at the renderings, I'm not as against the idea as I thought, since I can see some advantages of it in that location...But the disadvantages I listed above still stand, so it's just one of those times you have to weigh things and decide what's best for you. The other thing I didn't mention is if you wanted to work with future grandchildren at it, it's best on the outer end. It also offers them a more kid-friendly place to make sandwiches or help you by cutting up salad, etc.

Oh, sorry about the desk wall misunderstanding. Did you mean floor to ceiling open shelves then? (Lower shelves are particularly bad about collecting dust.) You didn't say anything about it being wrong when I did the initial renderings. If I do something you don't want, you have to tell me so I can fix it! :-) I do these to help you, and if they're wrong, they're not helping as they should.

I wouldn't try to match the cabinetry to the armoire. Let it have it's own personality. That's the charm of eclecticism.

I worry about the change in counter height (as I had it drawn) for the drawer unit and desk on that wall. Would you make them the same?

EWWW... you're right about the dust... I was trying to think of something to do so I don't have to build out a wall 2' to give a finished look to the end of a cabinet run on the right wall. Hmmm... I could always just put a finished end panel on another lower drawer cab and have extra storage or use the armoire. It's the end open right to the family room so I have to do something. What if I put some kind of bench for extra seating... kinda just another space people could hang out and chat while I'm in the kitchen. Then I could just put artwork above that ... it would have storage drawers underneath... or not. I'm kinda liking this notion... bench, then maybe desk, then 36" drawer cab? Then the difference in heights would go up like a ladder... more pleasing to the eye?

I think 3 horizontal ht changes would be too busy for me. Mostly it's the slight change from 30" to 36" right next to each other in only 3 ft increments that would bother me. I would either make the drawer cab the ht of the desk, or most likely, make the desk at 36" and use a stool instead of a chair.

This is so odd... when I responded to your last post all the renderings you did with the prep table down against the wall didn't show up so when you said "as I listed above" about the problems with it I had no clue what you were referring to. But now that I CAN see it... of course it doesn't work! What a dumb idea that was on my part! I'm so very visual sometimes I can't see things unless I can SEE them. Your pics are so very helpful, I couldn't do this without them. I guess that's the problem with cyber communication. Hmmm... so variegated heights don't work all that well. I would probably do them both desk height and use one of the extra dining room chairs. They would both be height of the prep table which WILL be back at the end where it originally was. That is, if I can retro-fit IKEA to a lower height it'll just all be counter height and I'll put an extra stool there. Does anyone think a built in bench would be cool on the end closest to the family room?

I think a bench would be fine. I think that's the thing with that spot...You have lots of options. Not too much of a hurry to decide? It seems like you could put in what you really know you want (the desk area and drawers), then try the armoire since you have it...Then go from there.

You're so wise rhome... put in the desk and cab and then see. In my mind... I'm leaning toward a bench, either built in or free standing. That's the problem with me... once I get an idea I want to develop every possible contingency. I need to let up some and allow this project to develop more naturally. I like the armoire and think it goes with the table but may be too heavy a look. We'll see... it's too big to put anywhere else and since the house is small; if I don't need it I'm sure my DS who still lives at home could use it for his first apartment somehow OR I'll sell it. AGAIN... thank you for all your help. I'm very grateful.

You siad this is a fairly small house. Does your significant other have a separate office location? If not, I would do a double-wide desk with file drawers in between two desk spaces. We have a set up (not in the kitchen) that includes two desk spaces and find that both computers are in constant use in our house. Since you have the room, and don't want the tall cabs, that might be the better way to go.

One issue to consider, though, with ikea cabs: their cabs are too tall to use as desk cabs, and their office furniture doesn't match their kitchen cabs. You may need to have doors made separately for your kitchen cabinets and then have the desk made by Scherr's or a similar company so that you can match the doors.

Good point sarschlos... the house is only about 1500 sq. ft. My DH has the third bedroom which will be his "music room" and also space for his stuff. He'll also have a HUGE shed in an area of the back that is separate from the backyard. He's definitely an outdoor guy with outdoor stuff and I don't know how much he'll use a desk. I'll have to ponder this one. I mentioned, and will check it out again to be sure on the IKEAfans website; but I do remember someone saying that you can take a 24" deep wall cab, use drawers instead of doors, and add the feet. With a stone top, I believe it takes you to table height. (I think there are wall cabs that are 24" tall). I've read over and over about how helpful the website is and have used it a couple of times myself. I also could do something different then IKEA on that wall since it's kinda separate. I'm going to play with their software when I get my hands on a computer that's not a MAC.

Not sure how the wall cabs can be used with drawers, since the wall cabs are only 12" deep (unless they were using the narrow drawers or the over the fridge cabs?). I've looked over at Ikeafans for this but haven't seen any mods that looked particularly useful. If you find one, would you please email me? I would really appreciate it, as I need to redo our office built ins and would really prefer to use ikea so that our kitchen and library match.

sarschols... I emailed you a link to a thread from a post I had back in January about modifying cabs to a lower height. It helped me too to be reminded!