sorry - Here is a plan of the original floor plan to compare.

Thanks!

Since you mentioned that you are in Pittsburgh. Is your kitchen at ground level or above.

What is the total length of the space?

Do you have a floorplan of the new kitchen space drawn on graph paper?

I don't think you have a very expensive bowling alley however what I do notice is that the entire floor is open to everything else. The two living rooms are open to each other through the foyer, the kitchen is open to both living rooms. There is no place for quiet.

Now, if your family does a lot of grand entertaining with a lot of guests then this plan has a great flow for that, however if you are a family with young children, how will you get away from their mess. I would just look at your lifestyles, now and into the future and decide if you want everything this open. Or are there other places in the home for private space.

In the original plan the living room was screened off from the kitchen as it was a separate room. How about some sliding french doors into the living room so that it could be closed off.

And where the family room is you could add columns to either side of the room with counter height storage to act as a delineation and stop the bowling alley effect. I've attached a link to give an idea of what I'm suggesting.

These are all just random thoughts and questions to get you thinking about your space.

Here is a link that might be useful: [room dividers.[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/living-room-traditional-living-room-portland-phvw-vp~777865)

I think it is fine to have one main seating area in the dining room. This is also what we did in our redesign because I felt the same as you about having two tables so close to each other. It works just fine for us. I do agree with providing some form of privacy for the living room. French doors or something so you can have a quiet area on the main floor. Our main floor is quite similar to what you have proposed the only difference is that our tv and kid hang out spot is in what would be your living room and the room directly open to the kitchen is a sitting area with fireplace and no tv. I love it this way because then I can close the doors to the tv room and have quiet in the kitchen and sitting area.

Looking quickly at the kitchen layout I notice the island and seats are a barrier to your work flow from the fridge to the sink. This would drive me crazy and entail lots of trips back and forth for meal prep. I am not a design expert but you should post the kitchen plan looking for a solution to this.

Good luck!

thanks for the thoughts & ideas so far - [please keep them coming.

Carolmka - you asked if the kitvhen was ground level - It is a second story kitchen. Perhaps you were thnking about sliding doors in the eating area if it was accessible?

I do like the idea of French doors (perhaps pocket doors to save some space) between the eating/living area as well.

Does anyone have any ideas about the workflow concern between the sink and refridgerator. We did notice this, but couldn't come up with a workable solution. Perhaps one of you has an idea?

Thanks!!

I will be the naysayer here since there are none yet. Dialogue is good right?

I like having the separate dining room, but we entertain frequently enough that we use it at least once a week. Losing the dining room may cut your potential buyers by half- but you only need one buyer in the end. That said, your kitchen is plenty big and I don't really see why you need to enlarge it. The 51 inch aisle between island and sink on the new plan is probably too large for comfort. usually the aisle recommendations are 42-46 inches. You would at least need a second sink on the island since that is your main prep counter. Even the 43 inches from the fridge to the landing spot on the island seems far to me.

I don't know your family situation but I don't see any tables that would allow homework to stay spead out during dinner hour in the new plan. The dining room table is great for that. The kids come in to dinner and then return to homework in the next room.

What is it about the old plan that you don't like? What are your goals for the remodel? You can still knock down the walls between the kitchen and the family room to open things up, and move the sliding doors. They are currently in a very bad position. You can change the sliding doors to a sitting box bay window and push your table up to it, gaining square footage in the kitchen for relatively low pricing. People on this forum can help tweak your kitchen in its current space, but it looks pretty efficient to me and the remodel will cost a fraction of enlarging it like you have planned.

We had a box bay put in earlier this year in our eating area adjacent to the kitchen, it makes a huge difference in our small space. One unexpected plus with the half screens is that we can use the box bay as a pass-through for food directly onto the deck when we have an outside party, just raising and lowering the screen as needed from the outside to get access to the food. I also had a cushion made for the seat and it is a favorite reading/napping location for my teen boy. It cost slightly under 5k all told for construction including moving electrical wires but was a lot cheaper than the 100 SF expansion that I had originally worked on with an architect.

French doors to close off the living room when desired were my first thought as well. I like it all open and many people never use their dining rooms, but you need an 'away' space occasionally and doors for the living room will give you that.

We had a similar concern about resale value and 'losing' the DR. My concerns were eased by my brother (a custom builder) who said he hasn't put a formal DR into new construction in about 4 years. Also, we could turn our family room into a formal dining space if needed (as you could with your living), so that's something that also helped us decide to open the space. Lastly, we decided to keep a bit of wall at the ceiling - the DR already had crown moulding so this helped solve the problem of how to end it into the kitchen, and I think it serves as a nice visual cue that the DR can still be formal.

From living room:

From family room looking into kitchen:

Re: your design
1) I'd loose the 2nd island. What's the point of it? It just clogs up space and crowds the DR

2) I think if you just moved the island seating to the family room side, your island won't be a major barrier. You can go right from fridge to island or counter by cooktop. But if there are people sitting there, it will really block the work flow.

The biggest problem I see with your re-do is that you've put a large island in the middle of your work triangle. You have to go around the island to get from the fridge to the sink and from the cooktop to the pantry. I don't have any suggestions on how to improve this because I absolutely suck at doing layouts. I just know that it would drive me batty in a day or two.

I don't do layouts either but I can see issues. For sure, you need a prep sink in the island. Please post your proposed kitchen with more precise measurements (I don't know if graph paper would be helpful). Hopefully the layout gurus will have suggestions.

I think KathyNY76 has a great solution with the header separating the DR and kitchen. It's open but has a more formal, separate feel. For resale, I think you'd be okay considering your house is 2000 sq. ft. Would a well done, functional kitchen be more desirable or multiple eating spaces just feet from each other? I'm not great with layouts either but if you get island seating somehow then that'd work for breakfast/informal dining and you'd still have the DR. If not your LR is there too.

With a good informal eating area at an island or peninsula, you don't need the separate breakfast area. This isn't the layout for that. Everything is in the way, and you're moving around a lot of expensive elements.

No one has approached the elephant in the room, so I will. What is your budget for your project? Have you done any research as to what an average mid range kitchen redo costs to do in your area? (55K) Do you realize that you are talking about an above average costs project? What is your timeline for being in this home that would make a 100K project worth doing? What type of DIY skills do you bring to the table that could help you lower your costs? Would the extended timeline that goes with the DIY element work for you, or woud your family not deal well with living in a year(s) long construction project?

Here is a link that might be useful: Cost vs. Value Pittsburgh

I don't have any good layout suggestions either, but the island blocking the work triangle would also drive me crazy.

I can see why you want to make the changes you are proposing. For me and my young family, I like your new plan better. Esp with doors to separate the living room from dining area.

For a quick layout change -- what if you scooted the big island a bit closer to the sink wall, and put your seating on the long side (backing up to the fridge and double ovens). Or even leave space on 2 sides for seating. Just seems like folks sitting on the oven side would be more.out of the way from you working at the cooktop. Also, you could prep on the sink side of the island and talk with them.

And have you considered switching the sink and the cook top. Then even though you'd still have the island in the middle of the triangle, it would be more natural to move from fridge to sink to cooktop in order. And although you wouldn't have a window over the sink (in the corner), it looks like you could have one over the primary prep area btwn the sink and cook top, which would be lovely.

Do you have a specific purpose in mind for the second island? Seems a bit odd - I think the space would be better left open, esp as the dining area is narrow at 143".

I am not a kitchen expert, but I like Elizabeth's idea of exchanging the sink and stove. Put seating on two sides of the island and a shallow pantry behind the seating. Make the isles 46 to 48 inches and the island about 5 feet across. I don't know if that is too wide to reach across and clean! ):

This post was edited by Karenseb on Mon, Sep 1, 14 at 16:25

Boy, this is a hard one. I played with it a while. There might be an idea or two you can use. I don't LIKE it, but it solves some problems.

I am not sure of the scale. The perspective in your overhead view made exact measurements tricky.

This post was edited by Bellsmom on Tue, Sep 2, 14 at 16:52

One way to decrease aisles is to increase the depth of your perimeter base cabinets to 30 inches (or bump them out) and your upper cabinets to 16 inches and you will have TONS of storage and counter space.

Echo LWO's warning about cost, this expansion will cost you.

I am redoing my 13 x 12 foot kitchen in the existing space but changing the layout. It is a moderate cost kitchen with a few expensive items (5k for the bumpout window seat posted above) and will be about about $55k total in total cost, midAtlantic area. So the prices that LWO posted are about right.