Hello and welcome! There are others on this site who are far better than me at layouts and design. I do have one suggestion though - do you need to keep the radiator or could you go with heated floors instead? Not sure where you live and how much that would be a factor. We are in chilly Canada and our new kitchen/foyer design involved removing the big obtrusive radiator from the foyer and putting in heated floors from the front door through to the kitchen. Nothing's done yet! so I can't report on results. For your layout it seems that would buy you some needed space.

I love the existing colour scheme of your kitchen - it's very close to what ours will look like when complete.

Good luck!
Eliz

If you can't do heated floors, you might be able to use a radiator cabinet for the radiator, and put a countertop and upper cabinets above it for more storage and workspace. Are you getting new appliances? A wall oven apart from the cooktop might buy you more usable space in your cooking area if you put it over by the fridge corner somehow. I'm not sure where to put the old cabinet without creating a dead corner. Ooh, I know -- leave the cabinet AND the low window alone, and get a gorgeous period-style range, placed right where your dw/range are now.

If we stuck to radiators - I would get a smaller one, maybe run it alongside, not next to stove - It's always hot in the kitchen anyway. I really need more countertops next to stove. I would love, LOVE a period range - the space is crying out for one - but refurbished ones are very expensive and DH wants nothing to do with them.

I think most of the budget will go towards heating issues, a smaller window (if we go that route) and cabinets. I really want good quality wood painted cabinets. I'll keep the older appliances if I have to, for now, (except DW of course). I don't think there is space for wall oven in fridge corner -- my plan shows the old base cabinet next to fridge but I realize it looks very awkward.

I'm hoping to be able to salvage pine floors under flooring and add and subway tile backsplash. I am unsure about countertop choices. Granite seems too modern, soapstone too expensive, corian too plastic, silestone too "fake stone". I like butcherblock and have no complaints about laminate.

Eliz, thanks for kind words about colors. I would like to use similar colors for new kitchen but it feels strange somehow, like a new kitchen should have new colors! I told a KD that I wanted the new kitchen to look like the old one, but less awkward and gross and she looked at me as if I were insane.

You may be sick of it, but that's not an embarrassing kitchen AT ALL.

In fact, I think it's cute! That tall cabinet-over-cabinet configuration is very "cottage now". I'd consider keeping that, if that's your taste. You might keep the other cabinets and move them around a bit. Are you sure they're 1980s? They look earlier to me -- like 1940s/50s.

You just need to find a designer who's more in sync with your tastes. They're out there. You're not insane -- your basic approach -- keep the look but make it work better seems absolutely doable. You can pick and choose.

Have you looked into "retro style" appliances? They're new, but the exterior is styled to look older. Companies like Northstar make them. Still expensive though, but real working modern appliances.

Good luck!

I wonder, could you use the old cabinet as a peninsula jutting out from the wall next to the bathroom?

I found this kitchen on FKB, it's small and charming and the cabinets, while new, have a classic look to them. Glass doors make a difference.

I love a yellow kitchen, go for it!

Here is a link that might be useful: small classic kitchen

I must say the pictures mask many flaws - it looks worse in person.

This kitchen was obviously built over time starting in the 30s - The tall cabinet over cabinet is the oldest, then the cabinets to the left and the upper doors, then the radiator / sink part. A local cabinet maker says it would be impossible to reuse much, especially since I must have an installed DW and more counterspace and we have to get the radiator out. He was very critical - but when I asked about a rebuild he said he was too old to do a full kitchen and didn't know anyone to recommend. (Okay! Thanks for coming over!)

Some time ago, Barrelhaus posted her finished kitchen (actually, celticmoon posted it for her). She also had a small kitchen and was determined to stay in the existing footprint. I'm posting the link to her kitchen in the gallery below. You should take a look at it. As I recall, she had awkward windows and a small footprint to work with, too, and the results were stunning. One trick she used was a small subzero refrigerator, which has special hinges, so she could stick the fridge in a corner without worrying about being able to get full access to the interior of the fridge.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Here is a link that might be useful: Barrelhaus's Kitchen

This is all just my opinion.
The cabinet you want to keep on the right , would it fit on the wall where you now have the range with a new cabinet over top made in the same style, painted the same of course, to make it look like a hutch/furniture piece. It would be right in the line of vision when you come in from the dining room and could be your focal point. Then would a range fit on the wall to the left of the sink, at right angle to it? Or would that make the work space too cramped? If you can do something other than the radiator I would consider leaving the long window as it balances the door that would be on the other side of the cabinet ( if you move it to that location)
Waht do you think?

"when I asked about a rebuild he said he was too old to do a full kitchen and didn't know anyone to recommend. (Okay! Thanks for coming over!)"

LOL! I think many of us can relate. Keep at it - one good place to ask for references is a local wood supplier or lumberyard (not a chain).

You're not at all insane! There is amazing potential in that space, and you already have the colors and historical elements so many of us drool over (wait until Bayareafrancy sees this -- she's laboriously painting her cabinets to replicate your gorgeous period yellow).

Two books you really MUST take a look at while you ponder your rehab, they've been invaluable to me in a very similarly-aged house with similar 30's/80's remodeling history:

Bungalow Kitchens by Jane Powell and Linda Svenson

The New Bungalow Kitchen by Peter LaBau

Is it possible to put frig on the wall next to dining door? Bring the cab (you show next to frig) to the back wall and then have space for a small work top island?
{{gwi:1949539}}

I have to agree with the other posters who suggested keeping the big cabinet with cabinet over it. It looks like a hutch. It really is beautiful.

Droooooooool!

I only have a few moments (gotta feed the kids), but I wanted to stop by and say hi!

Yellow? Yellow? Here is my project (currently going on 2.5 years) of restoring my 1929 kitchen. Recognize any hardware???:

The dishwasher is hidden next to the sink.

Re: the stove. I laughed at the comment about the stove just sitting there, like it is just out of the box. Yes--that is exactly how a modernish stove will look (because they aren't really designed to stand alone). But of course, a vintage stove is SUPPOSED to just stand there, without cabinetry around it. I could nevernevernevernevernever afford a refurbished one. I live in the SF bay area, where there are tons of vintage stoves for sale, and so I looked for several months (craigs list, etc.). I finally found mine (in fabulous condition) for 800 bucks installed. Don't get me wrong--TheHusband freaked out over 800 bucks for a stove! But it sure wasn't thousands! Here's my girl:

I had once thought of putting cabinetry around her, but doing so would really close up the airiness of the kitchen. My kitchen is quite small, but it doesn't feel small b/c it isn't closed off with lots of uppers. You have a window where I have that doorway next to my stove. If you put uppers, bear in mind that you will lose some of that lovely sunlight, and feel more closed in. I am hoping to do some kind of hutch on the other side of my stove, plus a good vent hood over it (though I'm nervous about the big protruding vent hood closing up the kitchen too).

There are some negatives to the vintage stove that I'd be happy to review with you, if you decide to go that route. But I adore my stove, despite any negatives. She really makes the kitchen!

If you decide to keep lower cabinets (and there are advantages to doing so), you can pull them forward, and then put in a dishwasher (I'd suggest an 18" Miele.)

Re: windows. It looks like you've got the original windows with muntins. I'd beg you on my knees not to change those. They are precious (literally). Someone removed the muntins from many windows in my home, and we couldn't afford to put them back in. We were so heartbroken. Your windows are so beautiful, and you can work around the size of that long one. But I confess I am obsessed with restoring old houses, and I weep whenever I see original wood windows being removed. So that's my bias.

I can't get over your yellow color, and your glass hardware! My kitchen is almost your kitchen's doppelganger! What state do you live in?

Feel free to email me if I can offer any advice/support on restoring your little gem. Sometimes I get frustrated by the smallness of my kitchen after seeing the amazing expanses of counter space here on GardenWeb, but I do love my little space.

Oh--here is how it looked when we bought the house. That empty wall with the gas pipe sticking out is where the big 40" stove now sits. I've got 4 doorways total, plus windows. For cabinetry, we only redid that sink wall (which was no longer original), so that yellow unit in my first photo is the reproduction stuff. Nice floor, huh? We refinished the fir subfloor.

:-)

francy

This does have a small room change - er, I hope its small. I moved the doorway into the dining room about 2 feet. I would put a toe kick heater in if its hot water or simply cut the radiator. The cut back for the range is exaggerated from what one would truly be, but I don't have good enough drawing tools.
{{gwi:1949540}}

Wow - Thanks for all the responses!

Iris - I think that cabinet would look great on that wall!

here's a question tho' for you and bmorepanic - I assumed that the range had to go on outside wall to vent properly? We now have that big fan which I kinda like, but may get a small hood for stove.

Francy - I love your kitchen and the stories you've told! The stove is fabulous! Do you know what year it's from? Also found your soapstone thread interesting. It is so hard to paint cabinets - Mine were white with rusted black colonial style latches - lines of rusty stains ran down each cabinet. I love the milkglass and they were pretty cheap!

I would never ever change the windows, but that long window makes a very awkward, useless area. I keep cat food bowls and trashcan there - but you can't open the cabinets unless you move them out if the way. Maybe I could get a salvaged window to match?

I'm in Maryland about 20 miles outside Baltimore. I did go to a salvage place yesterday - It's called Second Chance, near the stadiums. (been there bmorepanic?) and looked at radiators and windows. Also saw 2 new Fireclay apron sinks everyone here talks about for $550. Need to discuss this with DH when he gets back. They are biscuit though, not white.

I'm going to go study these plans you have worked on. Thanks so much!
Maureen

Maureen, I'd also suggest having a heating person, who is familiar with old radiator heating, in for a consultation about moving the radiator or changing the size. Messing with radiators can open up a real can of worms. At least get some good free info up front.

I love your long window, but if you end up changing out the long window, salvaged windows are a definite possibility. Marvin also makes double hung wood windows in that 6 over 6 style that you have.

Maureen
I don't have my range on an outside wall but then I have an over the range microwave with recir fan. I really don't care for that arrangement but it's what I have. If you want good venting then an outside vent is the way to go but could you vent thru the ceiling somehow?
I'm assuming you are wanting to just use the base of the cabinet on the right of the sink, that's why I suggested you have an upper made in the same style as the bottom. It could be connected with some sort of corbell type "arm". I've seen that arrangement here many times and like the look.

With creativity, you can easily make that space work - we kept our old space/small kitchen and we have such a better space - I love your old kitchen - I wish we had what you had when we moved in - I refused to use our kitchen at move in.

I would look for a small counter-dept fridge - we got lucky a few years ago with the sears outlet online and got one that accepts panels for under $1000-normally $2000 delivered. Space wise it doesn't stick out and is small and very nice.

We replaced our windows with Marvin and are redoing the molding to look original (same style). We did it DIY and they are very very easy to do if you have wood frames... one of our favorite projects and we didn't realize how easy it was if you get the measuring right. They cost more, but we saved no labor - the house is so much nicer feeling and while our gas bill stayed the same, our usage last winter went down (bills went way up in Maryland as you know) - they look really nice and have the divided light feature to make them look old.

We have several doors in our kitchen and we swapped out the basement door for two doors instead of the one and it is so much better as they don't swing as wide - might want to consider doing something like that for your doors if you are replacing them - not a huge extra cost.

Even though you don't have a lot of space, consider a trash can in the cabinet - love ours (double) even though we don't have a lot of cabinets - no regrets. :)

I like the design above - we couldn't center our sink above the window and it is off to get the dishwasher in - a year later it isn't a big deal. I'd probably leave the stove where it is if you are keeping gas and the fridge if you are on a budge and splurge on other stuff in less you are DIY.

Don't rule out granite and other materials yet - look around - it is nice and easy to care for - we have a 1950's house and it fits in nicely. :) I was very worried if it was easy to care for but I was wrong and love it and love the look (we are going more retro with some stuff).

Check out Rejuvination and Schoolhouse Electric for lights - Rejuvination's quality is slightly better and their oil rubbed bronze is a stronger color depending on which color you are using (we are going with ORB in the house). Both are great company's - ordered from both.

If you want Kraftmaid and can measure yourself (we used them and you can order unfinished as we did that for one hall closet we retrofitted with a cabinet), Just Cabinets is a little cheaper than HD and Lowes. We went through them. Not fancy, but no major problems either. (we love our Kraftmaid).

We didn't vent our electric stove outside and it's fine, but with a gas stove, you should be venting outside. But, it also depends on what you are cooking - we switched from gas to electric (well, I did, husband had no choice as I didn't care what he wanted as he wanted gas).

Maureen, I just love your kitchen! I too have a special place in my heart for old houses. I lived in a craftsman bungelow that was built in 1904. It was the most wonderful of homes. Lots of things in there that you would never get today, unfortunately. You certainly have to love them in order to live in them! They require a lot of work to maintain.

I too love the yellow cabs and would work toward keeping that as well, or at least that color on the walls. Then, I am biased. Yellow is my favorite color.

I like your first layout but was also thinking of putting your gorgeous cab/hutch where your current stove/dishwasher combo are now. It then leaves a problem for where to put your fridge and stove. So, I think your first layout is best. I do agree with the others and see if you can change the rad to either underfloor heating and gain some valuable counterspace that way.

I too agree with Francy and go for a period stove. There are new ones out there that look like the old ones, however, I cooked for several years on a refurb'd one from the 40's. I LOVED her. Yes, they do have their quirks, but I would definately check them out. I think it would be worth it. May want to do an internet search to see what is available and what might be in your area. If you keep the stove where it is, it too could be the focal point when you walk in from the dining room. If there is anyway to get some cab space next to the stove, I would try at least on one side. Just helps with the loading and unloading of things when you are cooking, but it isn't a necessity.

Do check into granite yards and see what they have as pre-cut counters. Several of the granite yards I went to had counters already made that were pulled out from someone else's house. Many of them were gorgeous. They were free if you used the company to install or at a very reduced price. I think granite or marble or the butcher block you are looking at putting in would all work well in your kitchen along with soapstone. Tile also gets a bad rap here on this board some times, but I do love it as well. You could even go with 24 inch squares to reduce the grout lines. You never have to worry about putting a hot pan on it.

In a period kitchen, I would put a vintage stove where yours is. I agree that it wouldn't look lonely, it would look right. But if you do go with putting cabs where your long window is, check out these pics from tchalan's recent kitchen remodel. If you scroll down there are pictures from the outside too.

Here is a link that might be useful: counter in front of low window

Bottom line here: You've waited 10 years.

ALL of these things you can take your time and research. Drop into that salvage place every couple of weeks -- a white sink will EVENTUALLY come in. While you are there you might run into someone who raves about their designer who TOTALLY understands their quirky style.

There's a word for it: Serendipity - unexpected wonderful things that happen. I find search engines are FULL of it!

I know when you finally make the decision, you want it all to happen, but it really is a marathon, not a sprint, so you might as well enjoy the view from the bridges.

And your colors: Have you seen pictures of Monet's kitchen at Giverny? Same, plus a little blue.

I think you're another person who would find inspiration in looking at pictures of European kitchens, where appliances are often freestanding, and layouts are "can't help it, that wall's been there for 900 years". It really frees you from the "you gotta's". In hugely expensive houses, if the vent pipe needs to go across a big wall, it just GOES. No coyness, no big cabinet, no false wall. I LOVE that.

Search on "unfitted" or "European" at the bottom of the page and you'll get some threads with links.
Enjoy!

I'll be contrary and say I'm against keeping that cabinet.

The "old" cabinet is a hybrid from the (I'd say 50's-60's) previous renovation and the original cabinet. The bottom is original and the top has clutzy replacement doors instead of the (probably) of inset doors, the new doors were probably an attempt to blend the new cabinets with the old. The kitchen probably had one of those long wall sinks with integral drainboards in that area and the photos show the newly improved arrangement with only one small full depth base cabinet - the sink base.

If you keep it, I think you can't place the dishwasher where you've drawn it - I don't think you have even 18" for a dw between where a farm sink cabinet would be and the edge of the antique base cabinet. You already know that its height from the countertop prevents you from using that counter space for anything but storage.

If you keep it, you might look for new doors for it and a better companion cabinet for the other side of the sink window. The wall cabinet there looks like a replacement ir later addition anyway.

Doing the return (making the little "L" on the dining room side) doesn't actually get you much - you lose more of the easy storage in the corner, the upper becomes more difficult to use and you don't really gain USEFUL counterspace because you can't use the counter in the corner. A lot of this will have different charateristics than it does now because you're much further away from that upper when you use standard size cabinets. The "L" prevents changing the dw to the left side of the sink - again I think that's necessary if you want to save the antique cabinet.

In what I drew, You can have the ref where drawn free standing or with a small pantry that opens towards the bathroom. If you choose to do a range in that location, the suggestion above for an antique range is a good one - craig's list sometimes has chambers and others listed for baltimore that work and are reasonable. The issue with an unrestored antique range is SAFTEY. They sometimes have problems with gas leaks, rust or ovens that don't work right.

You could also maybe do the 40" Frigidaire for something that feels more like an older style. Lots more cash than that gets you a restored antique range. Some more cash gets you something really stylish like this bert. At about that level of pricing, you can just reach a pro style range like an american or blue star.

In any event, What you can't do is keep that partly old cabinet and "recounter" it deeper, put a counter in front of the window and expect to be able to reach inside it on either the uppers or the lowers (without crawling). By increasing the depth of the counter, you're increasing your distance from the upper and you won't be able to reach as well as you could before.

You also won't be able to use either of the drawers because of the extended depth of the counter.

I had to laugh about the wall fan (I have one). Isn't your kitchen greasy? Don't you spend time cleaning the grease off those pipes and the exhaust fan itself? Don't you find kinda gory dust on the ceiling fan - dust that clumps up because of the grease? Little flecks of greasy stuff on the walls and cabinets that are nearly impossible to clean off?

Here is a link that might be useful: Frigidaire range

We certainly have a lot to think about. I love the unfitted, open shelving look but it is a nightmare to clean. I really need to find some good construction / plumbing people who can deal with the heating and window issues and STOP looking at cabinets, etc. (Crownpoint cabs would be a dream but probably unattainable, plan to look at Medallion and Woodmode)

Bmorepanic is right about those doors - they are plywood (good quality, though. Now I'm thinking about getting a top to match and putting it in the fridge corner like this:

bbtondo's kitchen http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg072037224528.html

I think we really need to put the stove on outside wall, especially because of the gas. We cook all the time - have two hungry preteen boys, and rarely eat out. I don't know if we could get by with a smaller fridge. I just know I am not going to win a battle over a vintage stove, I'll have to save all my strength to fight for expensive cabinets.

The kitchen is extremely greasy! The ceiling has a popcorn finish with embedded gobs of goo. I hate cleaning anyway, and it is impossible to get this one really clean. We really need a good hood that is vented to the outside - the fan doesn't cut it. One that sucks it all outside, not recirculating? I have a lot of research to do - Marvin windows, etc.

You aren't going to be using that many cabinets so don't rule anything out without a quote - we went with cherry/glaze/fancier door style and it wasn't horrible as we have a small kitchen. You can do some demo with two teenage boys - just bribe some of their friends with food and they'd have fun .

Someone posted these once and they are lovely - we went for more 50's style but maybe they'd work if you are looking at Crown Point - I don't know price wise, just always loved them. :) There are some old posts about them. Had I had known about them, I probably would have priced them out.
http://www.amishloft.com/cabinetry/default.htm

They have lots of new radiator heaters - my mom had that issue in her kitchen and she got a really flat one to put against the wall - would not work in your case, but there are options. I wouldn't leave heat out of the kitchen. We had to move our duct work. They also make heating units for the room - carrier and other company's make different kinds of units that are their own seperate units.

http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/ductfree/index.shtml

For Marvins, we used these:
http://marvin.com/default.aspx?page=Ultimate_Insert_Double_Hung
Very DIY friendly, easy to install, look very nice. You can't tell they aren't original, except they are cleaner looking and look new when the same exact molding is installed, only new. The big difference is the outside, since that is no longer wood, which is nice/no maintaince, although it isn't original, it doesn't look bad. Ours ran about $650 for smaller windows. Shop at different Marvin Stores - in Baltimore, they are owned by one person, in DC, owned by Smitty's - I called all 12-15 and got different prices and finally found someone to give me the contractor price. Despite being owned by the same people, each sales person gives a different price.