corrected link

Here is a link that might be useful:

What are the dimensions of the room? Specifically, I'm wondering how wide your aisle is and how much room between the end of the peninsula and the ovens.

It looks pretty decent to me...the work paths and organization seems to make good sense. Other options would be to
1) consider deeper counter depths for more workspace, and possibly a more efficient aisle,
and/or
2) eliminate the peninsula and create a galley, so that you might get better cabinet sizes/utilization to the right of the sink. Depends on the room between peninsula and ovens, as asked above, and how important the peninsula is to you in appearance and function.

R U sure...

The desk chair in the 3 foot wide aisle? In front of the entrance from the outside? The one with the chair legs that will always stick out into said aisle? The one where the chair will be constantly crashing into the opposing cabinet side?

R U sure you don't want to do a standing desk instead?

My old corridor kitchen makes me very aware of the problems of kitchens like yours. Your cook(s) will be criss-crossing a lot because the sink is opposite the two places sink users visit. Better to put it on the refrig. side. Is this thru-traffic that I'm looking at? If so, is it possible to throw all the action to one side or the other so that the walk-through people move along a wall? At the very least, move either the range or the refrig to the sink side. OR....consider a staple-shaped kitchen with walkpath outside it.

thanks all for your comments. alot to consider.
rhome, the dimensions are 21 lenght 10 width. the space between counters is 5 1/2 feet and the space between the counter and the peninsula is 4 ft.
florantha, I didn't consider the sink/fridge/stove locations a problem because the space between them is not significant. It's only about 2or3 steps to each or the other.
bmorepanic,you make a good point about the desk. the depth may be much more than needed. In fact, I only wanted a message center and original thought was to lay it out in the middle of the wall surrounded by pantry and less deep. But I did like the rendering that the architect did with a step in pantry vs a cupboard. maybe he can tweek the depth of the desk only for the door. We don't plan on sitting at that desk much which is why it was originally just a message center with a "stool" type chair and, we did like the idea of having a surface to lay things while filling the pantry from the grocery store. very interested in your opinion. thanks!

Re: the kitchen desk.

Desks are often 21" so it could be made shallower.

But I don't understand the "all or nothing" thinking behind the objections to it. Is that door a fire exit from Grand Central Station? Are you going to be sitting there hours a day writing your doctoral thesis? I doubt it.

If you look at the elements of this kitchen, nothing else makes sense there unless you eliminate it and turn the whole thing into storage. So its a narrowish desk in a traffic pattern that needs a smallish chair that needs to be pushed all the way in when you aren't using it, which is most of the time. Just because it doesnt have the ideal dedicated spot for it shouldn't mean that a place to sit down on occasion should be eliminated all together.

I would be bothered by criss crossing work flow. At first I simply wanted to put the frig on the end of the sink run but now notice there are windows there (good thing... love natural light). So.... I'm wondering if you could eliminate the desk next to the pantry, make it a galley kitchen, go with 30" deep counters, scoot the ct down a tad toward the right so you're not butt to butt with someone at the sink, and put a little stool at the end for computer/paperwork that can be pushed under the counter.

remodelfa, do you mean to remove the door and continue the counertop to the end instead? I'm sorry i didn't follow what you're suggesting. what is ct?

ct stands for cooktop ... sorry. No, I didnt' mean remove the door. I might remove the peninsula though. 30" deep counters on the sink run would give you some extra work space and make a more functional aisle width to the cooktop run. Just something to consider. In terms of flow, I think about items from frig, to sink, to prep, to cooktop. You're real close on this... it took me forever to figure out a layout!

With all due respect to those offering their own advice based on their experience, I don't really get the concerns about the work flow going across the aisle and back. Those of us with islands do that all the time. Only if it's a big traffic thoroughfare would I think it could be an issue, and I see traffic paths around the kitchen, so didn't think it would be...Was I assuming incorrectly? I don't see a way/enough space to get everything on the same wall.

I agree completely with Palimpsest's comments about the desk. Why make it shallower when it'll only make it harder to use and more difficult to slide the stool under? From what you said, it doesn't sound like it'll be an issue with sitting while a lot of traffic needs to come through. No need to deprive yourself of a useful space just that you can use a majority of the time without conflict. If you won't use it, make it into something else.

Oh, no - it's a fight!

I wouldn't have a chair or stool in that position in relation to the back entrance. For a coupla reasons:
 - the aisle is the minimum clearance already (possibly a few inches less due to overhangs) and I wouldn't want the chair or stool legs and back sticking out into the aisle,
 - the opposing cabinet side is a target to be hit with the chair when I suddenly heard a pot boiling over,
 - I'd be cursing everyone when the chair was continually not pushed in all the way when I came through the door with grocery bags through an already narrow aisle.
 - and everyone would be cursing me for being in their way (I'z a geek) and from me asking them to wait a second until I got to a stopping place.

What I might do is put the ref in the end wall with the pantry in place of the desk, move the range top down the wall maybe three feet and site a stool/desk space under the counter between the range top and ovens. It needs more than a one-cuppa coffee think, tho.

Agree with the others to cut the little peninsula. It kinda pushes people to walk behind the chef and looks close enough to the oven to cause interference. I think there is maybe an opportunity to make a dish hutch - move the dw to the other side of the sink (or completely integrate), pull the base cabinets of the hutch forward about 6 inches and run the dish storage all the way down to the counter. Ask about making the dish storage uppers deeper.

Agree with making the counters a little deeper. Rhome likes her 3 foot distance between a prep surface and the rangetop, there is someone else who finds her 32" aisles acceptable and then there's me - no way in he!! am I ever having main aisles less than 48". I grew up with a herd of siblings who still come around with their kids.

We had 5 foot wide aisles in the last kitchen and I really liked it. We never had to worry about where the other person was and could open drawers or appliances with abandon! The ref and sink were on the same side of the aisle, tho.

So, you figure out what you're comfortable with and what trade-offs you might want to make. There are minimums - 42" for a working aisle, 36" width in front of an exit, 34" to squish behind a seated person, 44" to be able to walk behind a seated person.

No fight. :) I could be happy there as designed. If traffic allows, I do think you'd love having at least a deeper counter on the stove side, and perhaps both sides. With deeper uppers too, of course, unless you are quite tall. 5'2" here.

Do you like to cook but spend little time scrubbing and prepping the veggies you just harvested for canning? So many people really want that sink graced with "the" window, and okay, but my grandma spent many long hours at hers (and her mud room really collected mud), while I sip a glass of wine while doing most of my work at the prep area. Mine would have the window and would also be a simple pivot away from the stove. Actually, with all that nice counter space, it's not totally obvious where you will be doing most of your cooking. Presumably at the food-storage end, but is there any chance you might end up doing most of it in that spot between fridge and stove just for convenience (a perfect space when designed for it)?

I think this is a great plan. The pantry doesn't look like a walk-in to me though. If you took down the wall between the desk and the pantry and used a tall pantry cabinet, with perhaps roll outs, you would gain width and probably function.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchens for Living

thanks all, your thoughts are really helpful in figuring this out. I wish you were all at the bathroom forum to comment on my master bath layout, too! @creative glo. the architect created a "step in" pantry with u shaped shelving using up all the space. i think what your saying is to build less deep cabinets to open up some of the walkway? i can't thank you all enough for your input!

I think all the objections to the desk are valid, but I would still do it anyway. The objections also make assumptions about particular family dynamics and usage of which we know nothing about. The aisle could also be tweaked to be a bit wider without much problem.

Thanks, palimpsest. i am leaning toward keeping it. something i didn't mention that would probably have changed others views is that the door opens to a courtyard and is not a house entrance door. also, the desk won't be used for long periods of time. so much to ponder...

My current (and hated) kitchen is almost exactly the same as yours now except my peninsula is across from the fridge. You won't have the fridge bottleneck issue I have. ;)

BUT I must put my two cents in. My aisle between sink and cooktop is 5.5'. That aisle is WAAAAYYY too wide for me. Yours will be slightly less; maybe that six inches will make a big difference. You say it's only two or three steps from one side to the other. And it is, but those steps really add up. Plus, you'll be carting ingredients from one side to the other with all those steps and trying to avoid passersthrough at the same time. Maybe your layout is very similar to this now and you don't mind the gap. Just something to think about.

I think I came across a bit harsh. The layout of my kitchen is just one of the reasons I don't like it. I'm not saying I hate your kitchen or that you'll hate it. Sorry. I think I'm hungry, and I've been sitting at the computer too long.

breezygirl, that's ok. i really appreciate your help!

"make assumptions about particular family dynamics and usage of which we know nothing about"

Why yes, dear, as does everyone.

I beg to differ.

...OR...

Separation of Cleanup Zone from Prep & Cooking Zones
No criss-crossing b/w range & sink
Prep Zone, Cooking Zone, and Cooktop are all protected
Mini-peninsulas direct traffic away from Cooktop (and Prep & Cooking Zones)
One thing...if you do something like this...put the Trash Pullout on the end of one of the peninsulas or at least one on the Prep & Cooking Zones side.

In the interests of full disclosure...these are almost identical to my new kitchen...and it works like a dream! It is so incredibly functional and lets many people work in the kitchen. [We had sixteen Cadette GS working in our kitchen at one time...working on their Cooking badge. All the adults were amazed that I could fit that many girls in one kitchen!]

I have the DR on the left w/the refrigerator on that side. FR on the right w/the ovens & pantry on that side.

Wow, buehl, these drawings provide some interesting alternatives. The only problem is, that we'd have to cover what is now currently window to the left of the sink. Also, what is the square in the corner, the trashpull out?

That's a corner prep sink....just like Buehl has!

Oops! Missed the window! (It was late...sorry!)

Yes, those squares are Prep Sinks! A great use for corners, btw.

I'll look at more later - I'm still at work. (Just a quick check-in!)

Can you change the windows? Maybe move them over so they're in front of the entire span b/w the refrigerator & ovens cab?

I think you could utilize Buehl's plan with oven/MW to the left without changing the windows, and only a slight modification of the plan...if you start thinking of a couple elements conceptually as "masses" and voids.

Buehl's plan is bilaterally symmetrical with the exception that the fridge "column" is wider than the MW/oven column.
A "U" at the bottom and an "---" at the top. Change it into two Ls.

Keep the right hand side the same.

On the left, remove the "peninsula" portion from the cooktop run and add it to the sink run. (The prep sink can stay toward the end, but not be angled.) You now have two "L"s laying down as if they are going to interlock.

The oven microwave stack turns inward and slides to the peninsula. This creates a freestanding column (in the sense that its not against the wall, it is still anchored from counterheight down) with a counter height/depth space behind it--the window goes behind it. Your architect would have to do a 3D rendering to see how it "worked". However, it could do a few things.

1)keep you from changing the windows

2)separate the desk/door area slightly from the kitchen proper.

3)create an additional storage area near the door or desk facing that direction. Its counter height and 24" square:, if you got a chair with a back less than 34" perhaps it slid all the way under there when not at use at the desk--no legs in the doorway.

4)it could also create conceptual architectural interest: maybe a painting gets hung on the side of the column facing the window for the courtyard's sake. It may also be the opportunity to tether an element to the ceiling other than the duct for the range hood. If the range hood is connected to the ceiling, maybe this becomes a beefier column that engages the ceiling, and the MW/oven becomes a column that engages the ceiling as well. So instead of one little element touching the ceiling (that it looks like you are trying to "ignore", now there are two--and it could look more intentional.

This could work because it is a modernist kitchen, I don't think it would be successful with traditional detailing.

{{!gwi}}

wow! another option. Thank you

...OR...

I prefer the first of these two so traffic isn't directed toward the cooktop even a little.