IMO, floors go in first, and go completely underneath the cabinets and appliances.

What floating floor are you using? We used Wilsonart in our basement where we were covering asbestos tiles (had to do a floating floor there), and are very happy with the results. Very comfortable to walk on bc the contractor put some sort of thin foam material under the floor.

you do not want to put a floating floor under the cabinets, it will restrict the natural expansion of the floor and could cause it to develop gaps. If you are worried about appliances having the proper height clearance then you could always out some 1/2 ply under the cabinets to raise them up.

I was advised by most of the cabinet folks I met with that the floor should go in first. Most flooring installation requires some levelling that makes the cabinet installers job a little easier. As you point out it also means they don't have to account for difference in flooring height and you don't have to worry about people seeing glimpses of whatever is under your appliances or getting those appliances over a lip if they ever need repair. Another advantage is no quarter round to conceal the edge gaps is required at the toe kick for expansion or contraction of the floor. Downside is it requires more care on the part of the cabinet installer and you do have a risk factor you don't have if the floor goes in after. Bit of a Sophie's Choice - I think floor first but that isn't the answer favoured by a lot of floor installers - some take it as a slight like you think the cabinets or more important than the floor.

It's like trying to get cabinet installers to agree about uppers or lowers first, good luck on that one.

Most floors go in before cabinets but NOT FLOATING floors!! The weight of the cabinest will prevent the floor from having the ability to expand and contract as the temperature and humidity change.

Floating floors must be installed AFTER the cabinets are installed. Like alku noted, the floor must have the abililty to expand/contract and this is not possible with cabinets on top of them. You do however, but this kind of floor under the appliances.

Yes, it is more difficult to install this way, but that's what this kind of floor requires.

If you choose another type of flooring, then you may install that before the cabinets go in. But NOT a floating floor.

A floating floor needs to expand and contract. If you anchor any part of it you will eventually end up with buckles and sound snaps like we had with our badly installed (high end) Mannington Floor. We went back and forth for a year before we discovered the cause, which was nailing along the sliding doors. We had to have our $5K floor removed and replaced because of this. Got VERY close to small claims court with the contractor, then at the last minute, he agreed to refund our money, so we could have someone else install the same floor with new material, in a proper manner.

-Babka

So if the floor goes under the range, what is done under the cabinets to ensure the counter and range align properly? Then I would assume that would need to follow around under all the cabinets, including the island?

I was just in a house where they didn't lay the foor under the appliances and you could see the sub floor - I wouldn't do that. I'm guessing as you originally indicated you lay a layer of ply = to the thickness of your floating floor under the cabs. I have a funny feeling your cabinet installer isn't going to love that.Good luck with it.

From what I've read, there are a couple of different approaches you can use and install the floor before the cabinets.

One way is to use cabinets that have the leg levelers (rather than the framed toe kick bases. When the cabs are installed, oversized holes are drilled thru the floating floor so that the leg levelers (and the weight of the cabinets) rest on the sub floor.

Another approach is to attach some kind of glide on the underside of the base where it will contact the floor. Nylon, metal strips, etc., that is, something that will reduce the friction between the base & floor & allow the floor to expand & contract.

Being able to install the floor before the cabs makes for a lot easier flooring install and a lot cleaner looking (and easier to clean) install by not having to use shoe moulding. A few more square feet of flooring req'd. for this approach but should be offset by less labor intensive install and the extra cost of shoe moulding & moulding install. If the flooring is that really expensive $9 a square foot stuff, you could stop the flooring just inside of where the cabs will sit & fill in with same thickness plywood (leaving a gap between plywood & flooring for expansion).

We just had cabinets installed. We simply told our installers that we were putting in a floating floor and they knew exactly what to do with the cabinets so that they were the proper height. We simply had to let them know what thickness the floor would be. They raised the cabinets the proper amount. The base molding for the cabinet hid this perfectly. They have may to raise your cabinets anyway as your floor surface may not be perfectly level.

We did put down the subfloor first (plywood). Our subfloor was not in good shape, so that had to be done first. Then the cabinets went it. Then the floor. Then the appliances. Then the molding.

Ok, well my cabinets have legs. The toe kick is installed by clips to the legs. I have a 1/2" thick floating floor. The entire floor is laid to the walls. All of the edges have a 1/2" gap. The cabinets, ref, range, dw sit on the floor.

I have had no problems with expansion and contraction in over two years that its been laid. We have a lot of edge area for the amount of sq ft and that might be part of the reason.

So, three thoughts...

Most systems have an underlayment layer required underneath and the sum of the flooring depth and the foam or cork underlayment may not be a convenient measurement (like the depth of a sheet of plywood).

It's difficult to project exactly what height the finish floor will be when it reaches the cabinets because of leveling issues and the underlayment. If your heights are tight somewhere - be careful.

Remember that appliances get replaced over time. The new ref or dw or range may not have the exact physical depth of the old one,so include some slack for that if you do plywood.

Hmmm...Bmorepanic, that raises a very good question. I'm gonna assume you're using Ikea cabinets, right? In European kitchens where cabinets are often removed and taken when the resident moves, it would make no sense to run the floors only to the cabinets because the new resident's set of cabinets wouldn't necessarily fit the exact same footprint. So, for instance, Pergo (Swedish) states on their site that cabinets can be installed over their floating floor as long as they are not actually fastened to the Pergo, so they either need to sit atop the floor or have larger holes drilled in the floor such that anchors can be attached to the subfloor and allow for movement. We've seen over and over the Ikea or other European-style cabinets with legs sitting atop flooring and all of those floors were certainly not solid wood. In Ikea's case, it's probably their laminate flooring since, hey, they'd like to sell you more stuff.

This topic couldn't have come up at a worse time. DH just installed our floating, engineered hardwood floor yesterday.

DH said we should just lay the floor up to the cabinets and I said, "No, why would you do that? Why don't you just lay it under the cabinets?" So this wrong decision is all my fault and I don't want to tell DH!

It's only 2 base cabinets, a total of 4 feet in length, with a butcher block counter on top. They're not attached to the floor. I guess I'm hoping it won't be as bad since it's a small section and it's not a heavy granite countertop.

Am I in trouble? Do I need to ask DH to redo his hard work?

Sorry to hijack, Kandkwi. Great question!

Gardenbuhrger, there are so many variables that I'm not sure anyone can give you a definite answer. Is this an island, where the attachements have to go through to the subfloor, or on the perimeter, where the cab can stand on the floor, but attatch to the wall?

If it's on the wall, I'd personally risk it. If it's an island and you aren't dealing with radiant heat pipes, I'd use a hole saw to create a few spots for the cabs to stand on/anchor through, cutting back the engineered floor far enough that it can't hit the feet, and call it good.

Even if you have a framed cab with integrated base [as opposed to euro style legs] feet can be used to support the load.

I decided on a glue down floor. However I investigated the floating floor beforehand. I was told the cabinets go in first, the floating floor goes in second. There is a foam underlayment on a floating floor. If you put cabinets and granite on top of a floating floor I heard it will "compress". If you do glue or nailed, the floor goes in first and cabinets on top. My two cents.
Melanie1121

Our subfloor is going to be gypcrete with our radiant tubing in it, so nailing is definitely out of the question and I am told that glue down is not recommended either. So that still leaves floating. I will talk to my cabinet sub and see if he has working with a floating engineered floor before. Thanks for all the input!

I have the Kahrs flooring, and we installed it under the cabinets. I've had it for a year and a half with absolutely no problems at all.

Thanks Oruboris. ItÂs not an island. ItÂs just 2 base cabinets attached to a 4Â wall, sandwiched between 2 door frames. So IÂm going to take your suggestion and risk it. We had a lot of flooring left over, so if thereÂs a problem down the road, I guess we can re-do it then.