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wolfhart_gw

Kitchen Layout Idea, Feedback Wanted.

18 years ago

Hello All,

I've thrown together a new kitchen layout for a house I am designing and am in desperate need of some feedback. I drew this to scale using AutoCAD Architectural Desktop 3.3 (2002). The grid is in 1' increments. Some info not shown on the plan are that there will be a walk in pantry to the right of the kitchen, connected to a mudroom and the side entrance to the house. To the left will be the great room and breakfast nook. Above the kitchen will be a porch. Also, below the nuker is an appliance garage for the coffee maker, can opener, etc. The darker, deeper cabinets are base cabinets, and the lighter shallower ones are wall cabinets. If you need any more info let me know.

Here is a link to a screenshot of the layout. http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h234/WolfHart/Kitchen1.jpg?t=1223439532

Comments (13)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Two stands initially stand out to me. The cooktop looks as if it only has about a foot to the right? That seems inadequate especially since it's on a pathway through the kitchen. Also, all the cooking appliances are spread out on all ends of the kitchen. Most people use the MW or oven while cooking. You have to dance around the entire kitchen to warm or melt something in the MW while cooking.

    I do love the unique shape of the kithchen.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Cooktop with raised bar behind it can be a safety hazard - people seated at the bar with something like newspaper or book can accidently overhang the cooktop or push stuff off the edge. Trust me on this! I have that arrangement and don't think it would be quite as dangerous if it were flat. We have 20" wide top and dh still manages to do this.

    You could cut the prep sink entirely - it's in the wrong place to be useful for much if you aren't planning a bar over there... It is extremely difficult to cram a prep sink, disposal if you have one and a trash can into a ?15" cabinet.

    No landing space for the nuke - if you really want it there, you might consider a lift door instead of doors that open to the side (blocks access to the adjacent counter and as a bounus, blocks some of those tall pullouts). I'm ok with the position of the mw - but we don't use ours to cook - its a reheater - so closer to the ref is great to me. If you actually cook in it, as remodelfla said, it may not be a good position.

    A bank of tall pullouts like that might be insane to work with as you linearly search through them for whatever it is you're looking for. Plus, there is no nearby space for stuff taken from the pullouts, so you have to keep holding it while you are moving pullouts in and out. I think you might also be trying to move around from one side to the other to see everything that's in it and there might not be enough room.

    I'm not sure about the walk around from the food processor to the mixer. I guess it would depend how often you use what.

    If I understand your directions above, you have a major walkway running along the north side of the island. 48" aisles there would be better than 42" aisles.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'd swap the sink and cooktop. (Please put drawers under the cooktop and in more base cabinets around the kitchen...Much easier to use) I'd put the prep sink in the island. First I thought it should go where the food processor is shown, but I actually hope it could go in the point of the island (a round one could be cool), so it can be accessed from cooktop, MW, and the rest of the outer counters (by ovens), making them more useful for baking, etc. The swap would eliminate the hazard Bmorepanic mentioned with the bar seating, would make the microwave position work OK (if it has counter underneath). This would also make it easier to bring dishes in and out of the space, and the dishwasher could be loaded or unloaded without the cook tripping over it on the way to the fridge or sink.

    Hmm. No dish storage. Move the ovens to where the microwave is (which makes it better, anyway, for moving foods from cooktop to oven), move the micro to the left or (better) into the bottom shelf of an upper between cooktop and fridge. Where the ovens are shown and a bit to the left, have a dish storage hutch. Not perfect, since I prefer it as close to the DW as possible, but I could live with it, I think.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    remodelfla: I only use the microwave to defrost (when I didn't have the sense to pull the item into the refrig a day in advance), or to reheat leftovers that I don't feel like using the oven, hob, or toaster to reheat. If it wasn't for those occasion where I am feeling lazy or needed to shave some prep time off things I wouldn't bother owning a microwave. You are right about the landing though, I only gave it about 16" of landing to the right, which is partially because I figured I can use the eating bar as more storage space if needed. The kitchen is huge already and I'm trying to shave space where I can. Worst case I can move items to the island maybe off the hob. I might yet add some space though, thank you. :)

    bmorepanic: I never thought about that, my top is only about 18" and I can see that being a major issue. I haven't owned a raised eating bar yet but think they are quite aesthetically appealing. The hob is going to be induction to ease some safety issues, but I may still make the bar level.
    To the prep sink, I have the kitchen divided into a cooking and a baking area atm. That way one person can be baking while the other is cooking. My SO is an amazing cook and quite often I will run into her in our current U-shape kitchen with about 50" between counter fronts even when we are working on opposite counters. So keeping the prep sink is expensive, but I really wanted to save people from having to share one sink or walk across the kitchen to add a little water to the mixer. Plus I have to have a water line to the ovens for their steam assist feature anyway. I'm hoping I don't need a disposal for the prep sink as the baking area shouldn't have anything that warrants one? And the trash cans I will be mounting with a false toe kick so they have more clearance.
    The pantry is best explained by the fact that my current pantry (which is a 24" that I installed large pullout baskets for) is so well organized that if it weren't for the fact I have to look to weave past various bottles and boxes to get at stuff in the back and lift them up enough, it is so well organized I know exactly where things are and wouldn't bother looking to grab. My hope is that by making thinner pantry pullouts that aren't baskets means things will never be wore than 2 wide and thus everything is just a matter of knowing what is where to have it at one pull and one grab. I will include a link of my storage map to example later. (it shows where pots, dishes, utensils, etc are going) I do need to rethink having countertop space near the pantry though, incase I need multiple items.
    I only use the mixer for baking, I hand whip anything I typically cook. So the mixer is in the baking area and the food proccessor is on the cooking side. Thinking about it now though, when baking I do use the food pro sometimes... that may become an issue.
    Lastly, the aisle. The mudroom located to the east has a hall on the side not connected to the kitchen that heads to the Powder room, laundry room, and then the great room. So hopefully only those needing to be in the kitchen will be travelling through the kitchen. Plus I like to be able to pivot and be able to reach the opposite counter when working, 48" is too much of a stretch.
    Thank you for all the feedback! I hope I get many more people as thoughtful as you. :D

    rhome410: All the swinging doors are pocket doors and all shelves are pull out in teh base cabinets (should have mentioned that earlier). I know it is much more expensive to do, but I plan to build the cabinets myself, so the only real concern is wasted space. But the kitchen is huge so I think I will still have plenty of storage despite the need for false walls.
    I may just yet move the prep sink to the island to exactly where you mentioned, the far right side. I figured for ease of plumbing it would be more practical to keep it near the steam assisted oven that needs a water line anyway though. (Any arguements for or against the two position possibilities?)
    As for the main swap you suggest and all the shifts it would entail. That is precisely the reason I made this thread. I have an alternate layout very similar to the one you suggest that I should probably through together in CAD instead of hand drawn and post it. I will try to get to that this afternoon when I get home.
    For storage, let me also post the storage diagram I have this afternoon as well. The dishes are all stored in the wall cabinets on teh south wall atm. I have been debating breaking my field of view to the great room with hanging cabinets across, but I really would prefer not to block the view with any more than the hood for the hob if I keep the hob there. (which is looking less likely thanks to all of the feedback)

    Thank you all again, please keep up the bombardment of good ideas!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Oh, also, as for the nuker, it isn't actually in a cabinet. It is suspended from a wall cabinet above it which has the doors drawn there. The doors for the base cabinet I am still deciding on.

    Another feature of my kitchen is all of the toekicks will be pop out skids because my SO is a chin rest to me.

    Speaking of heights, the sink counter is at either 36" or a little higher, the hob is at 34" or a little lower, and the island and baking areas are atr 34".

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    By pocket doors, do you mean the ones that slide sideways or the ones that tuck into the sides of the cabinets? The former seem like they'd be in the way, and the latter take a lot of time to open completely and close, and take space from the interior of the cabinet. The point with drawers is that you can pull them out without having to open doors first, and make very good use of space, side to side and clear to the back. I've had pullout shelves and I really disliked them.

    I figured you'd planned dishes stored on the south wall, but if the stove moves there, it doesn't work too well. That's why I made the other suggestion.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Your planned counter heights are about exactly the same as mine,which work well for our whole family. I think my baking counter is at 33", but the others are identical to yours...So you have my 'thumbs up.' :-)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Good to hear, my only up in the air height is the sink one. While standard 36" is the current idea, I'm debating moving it up more as I am 6' tall and plan to have a sink that is at least 11" deep (10" deep + 1-1/2" countertop thickness because of under-mounting).

    By pocket doors I mean the latter. The former are annoying, family of mine has them, and whenever I am over there trying to get to things in the wall cabinets is impossible because inevitably one door slides in the way of another.
    Yes I'm aware of the wasted space and while it is an effort to open or close a door completely, my experience is you open it once, leave it open, then close it when you are done. Or if it is a quick open don't slide the door after swinging it open. The same family members with the sliding top cabinets have -all- drawers on the base cabinets (except under the sink) and my complaints with drawers is they have to stay blocking the aisle when open. Whereas if you have your most common used pots on the front of a pull out tray and the lesser used in back, you only ever have to pull it out on rare occasion.
    But, having not ever had pull out trays before, what are your specific qualms with them?

    Oh, and as I'm moving things around for that alternate layout I've discovered the biggest negative to the idea. The refrig becomes over 12' away from the main sink. While this is okay for the hob to refrig as I rarely take things straight from one to the other. Also, my sink is a 42" monstrosity which is set up to do commercial style hand dishwashing. (My SO and I don't use the dishwasher unless we have company and would rather spend time with guests than hand wash dishes, cooking for two doesn't make enough dishes to fill a dishwasher and she can't stand letting dirty things sit in a dishwasher) Such a set-up wouldn't be too nice to be at the eating bar area, unless waterworks are on the entertainment line-up :P. The alternate layout I had hand drawn was when my kitchen was about 3' less long and didn't have the warming drawer. (Later topic of debate, if that thousand dollar beast is worth it... It would be great when we have parties, but sit dormant any other time.)

    Here is a link to the the storage diagram. (Keep in mind I haven't made any changes to the layout other than added the drawer located below the warming drawer and the swinging doors in the base cab below the Nuker) The text in tan is stuff in the wall cabinets, and the text in a doors swing area is going to be in a drawer above the door (except in the island's case where the drawer will pull out after the door is opened for aesthetics since I don't use cutlery without a cutting board anyway) White text located within the boundaries of a brown base cabinet will be what is stored there. Except the Coffee Maker and Can Opener, which will be below the microwave (I decided to get rid of the appliance garage, while it hides the sight of frequently used appliances, it takes up too much counter space near the pantry)

    http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h234/WolfHart/Kitchen2.jpg?t=1223508752

    Per usual, all constructive feedback welcome. Thanks again!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Been fooling around and decided the Warming drawer is a waste of money and for how rarely it would be used, specially since we will have double wall ovens as apposed to our single range now. So one can be used to keep things warm... Also decreased the prep sink from 14" wide 7" deep to 12" wide 6" deep. also halved the drainboard from 18" to 9" for the prep sink.

    Debating whether to leave the warming drawers old spot as cabinet space or taking it and a cabinet from the north and south walls out to save some square footage and keep things closer together.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Unless the pullouts are as deep as drawers, thing fall off, and if they're as deep as drawers, why mess with the doors? The thing is you can't open the doors just a little to slide them out, they have to open all the way and both sides. It's just a lot more trouble and a lot more time and a lot more interference with the aisle. Maybe it doesn't seem like it in theory, but in practice, I find drawers much easier and less in the way.

    The sink-fridge distance should be calculated to the prep sink in my plan, not the clean up sink... That's the point of zones--keeping cooking and cleanup separated. At least that's what works for most, but your situation may be different. Have you had a prep sink before and thought about how it could work for you between the fridge and stove? I no longer take anything from the fridge to the main sink, but always to the prep sink.

    Just a pointer: If you put the URL address in the link area at the bottom of your post, we can click on it to get your images directly, without the cut and paste. The quicker access may mean you get more responses and opinions to consider. :-) I should have done this before, but here's your kitchen plan link:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Plan

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    And here's the link to your storage map.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Plan with storage ideas

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I have never had a prep sink before. And the in theory part is right on, just sounds like a great idea. I am going to shlep on down to some hardware stores and see if they have any displays to see how I feel. thanks for the warning!

    Also thanks for the link info!

    I cut out about 2' from the length of the kitchen so need to repost it once I redraw the island without the warming drawer. Have to go to work for a bit, be back in 5 hours.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I moved the prep sink to the top right side of the island. It seems much nicer there.