Looks quite good. Few comments/questions.

Is your fridge a CD (counter depth) fridge? If it's SD (standard depth, you aren't showing it at its accurate depth and that will slice into your aisle quite a bit. A CD fridge will protrude an additional 3-4" beyond the counter into the aisle. A SD fridge will take up even more than that. It's placement will depend on its size. It might need to slide towards the back door so that it opens into the aisle, not opposite the island. You'd need to reduce the pantry but you can add another pantry cab on the other side of the fridge to make up for that.

I'd turn the island 90 degrees. You could have a 60" island (ends roughly in line with where your sink section would end) and 41.5" wide, giving you a 43.5" aisle between fridge run and island (NKBA recommends 44" aisles for walk behind seating), 42" between island and range wall and 40" between island and sink wall.

Hmmm, your island dimensions have me puzzled. Are you including counter overhang in your aisle measurements and dimensions? The 41.5" wide island I'm recommending consists of 24" deep cabs, a 15" seating overhang (as per NKBA recommendation), standard 1.5" counter overhang and an extra inch for decorative panels on the back side of the island. If you skip that (it is an extra cost), your island would be 40.5" wide. Your 36" wide island makes me think you're skimping on seating overhang. 36" - 1.5" counter overhang - 24" deep cab = 10.5" seating overhang.

Yep, just checked your math. You're not including counter overhang in your aisle measurements, which means your aisles will be 3" narrower than you show. Rotating the island 90 degrees makes even more sense now.

Are you wanting a wall oven in addition to the range or are you wanting a wall oven and cook top in place of the range?

Lisa - Thanks so much for taking a look! Yes, we have a side by side CD fridge. It protrudes about 3" past the counter including handles which i tried to reflect in my sad drawing.

You're right - I did not properly account for both counter overhangs. So revised aisle clearances are: 37" sink and R/F walls to island and 39" to range wall. And you are also right that I only allowed for a foot of knee clearance on the island.

My concern about putting a deeper overhang on the island and/or rotating the island 90 degrees is the aisle between the table and island which is a primary traffic pattern. As it stands I have only 5 feet between table edge and island edge and they will both have seating (and we know how often kids push in their chairs) so i think I am already pushing the NKBA guidelines for back to back seating? If I have an island end in line with the sink run I am down to 2.5 feet of clearance between the two?

Is a foot of clearance not workable for stools? Since the table is literally right there I'm thinking island stools will be for coffee and wine drinking, homework, etc and that meals will mainly be at table. I can't even fit all my kids at this island at one time...

A wall oven would be paired with a cooktop and pot drawers underneath I think.

Grateful for your time!

How much does your range wall bump out? It looks to be about 12" but I doubt your drawing is to scale.

Your eating area is really tight on clearances. I calculate that you have 27" between sink run counters and table and between table and wall. That's less than the squeeze behind diners space of 36" recommended by NKBA. Would you consider a banquette bench against the entry wall? That would gain you 7" clearance on the kitchen side. Still tight but better than you have. Does your bay window already have a bench in it? I can't tell from your drawing.

Because of the tight space around the table, I would reduce the island from 60" to 48", still large enough for two seats. That gives you 39" between table and island. We have 40" (sometimes 41", depends on where table gets placed after floors are mopped) between table and island (no seating). It's our main aisle from front hall to back door and it works for us just fine so I think 39" would be manageable for you.

Going with less knee room than recommended means that anyone seated there, other than young kids that is, may scoot their stool farther away from the island - in other words, into the aisle - in order to have enough leg room. So skimping on seating overhang doesn't really gain you a lot. And you don't have a foot, you have 10.5".

Thanks for the info about your fridge.

I think with a little tweaking, we can get you better clearances and a well functioning kitchen. After all, you don't want to go through the expense and hassle of remodeling and end up with tight aisles.

Aisles are counter to counter, counter to fridge or table to wall, etc. All but the dimensions for the end sections (left of sink, left of cook top) are for cab sizes. The dimensions for the end sections are counter measures. Cabs will be 1.5" smaller. I allowed 39" for the fridge cab and 33" for oven/MW cab. Sizes will depend on cab construction (frameless could be 1" smaller for fridge cab) and oven specs (30" oven may be able to go into a 30" cab).

Given your small dining space, I think you'd do well to go with a 36" x 72" table, not a 42" x 72" table. It's not as generous with leg room but something's got to give in a space that's only 8' wide.

I added a 24" deep banquette bench on the entry wall and in the bay window. The table overhangs the bench by 4". This does mean that one person is boxed in but that would MOL be the case without a banquette because of the tight clearances around a table.

Because the table moved farther into the window area, I was able to stretch the island back to 60" and still have good clearances between it and the table.

The sink grew to a 33" sink cab, which will allow you a slightly larger sink. You could even go with a 36" sink cab by reducing the cab next to the DW to 15.5" (the 20" here is counter measure, not cab. Cab is 1.5" smaller). The sink is 5" off center so that I had enough room to add a 18" trash pull-out between sink and 36" corner Susan. I doubt it will be noticeable. Someone would have to be standing dead on center to notice it.

Because the island is a bit of a barrier island (between fridge and sink), I added a prep sink to the island. The faucet is angled so that the sink can be used from either side of the island. You'd have about 20" of counter next to the sink, maybe a bit more. You don't have to have a prep sink but I think it will make your kitchen function better. It will certainly save you steps.

I added a bookshelf at the end of the island, facing the cook top for cook books. Add outlets to the island (required by code, actually) and you can plug in laptops to look up recipes when cooking.

You have plenty of counter to go with a cook top/wall oven set up: 173" not counting the overhang or the counter next to the oven/MW stack. This allows you to put drawers for pots and pans under the cook top.

The 48" section of counter/cab to the left of the oven/MW stack can be used for the toaster oven station (if you don't want it next to the cook top, that is), papers, desk, whatever you wish. Add glass doors to the top section to provide a nice view from the front door and drawer storage for papers and such to keep the mess out of sight.

I have another idea that puts a free-standing table at the end of the island but I need to draw it out and check clearances.

Are your bay windows below counter level? I'm betting not but it would be nice if they were.

The drawing is actually pretty much to scale. Sorry if it is hard to work with - I am impressed at what you managed!

Yes the range wall bumps out 12" and only for that part of the range wall because the lot is angled and we are at our max setbacks.

I think you're right that I need to budget for a narrower table (this is my current table). But it still has to seat 5 every day so i can't go too small and it has to expand.

And I so WISH that the bay was actually a bay! Alas - it is a flat wall with just a bay window (60wx58h). The "bumpout" is only 18 inches past the sink wall. And we can go no further as we are at our front setback already there.

I love the banquette idea but I think with the wall constraints it only helps move the table a foot towards the window. And on the entry wall I am left with an awkward "half" seat as I can't get both seats on the bench!

Couple of ideas:

Since you need to have seating for 5 perhaps you could consider eliminating seating at the island which would gain you more flexibility. Kitchen hangers-out could sit at the table. Or in a more important head chair for the table which could do double duty as a hangers' perch and also at the head of the table.

And I would consider making the entry to the kitchen smaller than shown on your plan. No need for a single-width door, but 70 inches may not be necessary, either . Maybe 48", with french doors kept more or less permanently open, but still closeable when you wanted to divert view from the kitchen. The door opening doesn't have to center on the present opening, either. You could move it farther towards the top of the drawing giving you extra wall space for a banquette seating on that side of the table. Or if you did want to use a single panel door, you could hinge it so it folds inward against the unused wall along the PR wall. (I had to puzzle about the lavatory sink you show, I tried and and tried to imagine what piece of cooking equipment you were placing there, finally decided it must be some kind of exotic chappati-brazier, or other esoteric thing we hadn't seen before.)

HTH,

L.

I would narrow both entrances into your kitchen. The 70" one from the LR to the kitchen I would narrow to 5' by making the wall longer from the entry. The entrance from the kitchen into the bedroom area I would narrow that to between around 46" (at the most 48"). By narrowing it to 48" you get a longer counter that would be a great space for your hutch/desk space. You could probably get about 5 1/2" up from the noted 48"

My concern and reason for shortening up the entrances is that it looks like the sight lines from the front entrance could head straight into the bedroom wing. By shortening them up you change the angles and by elongating the counter for a hutch the bedroom behind the kitchen gets more privacy. If you have the space and can create a hutch area with glass cabinets and nice molding that is what will stop your eyes from leaving the kitchen and heading into the bedroom wing.

For decorating it also gives you a spot on the longer wall at the front entrance for a mirror or perhaps a little halftable for keys etc and at the other entrance, on the other side of the wall beside the bedroom it gives you a wall space for artwork to liven up the bedroom area.

How many seats do you need your table to expand to accommodate? 2 more? 4 more? Do they all have to be at the same table or can you seat most of them at the table and 2 at the island?

I've figured out a set-up that will allow 7 at the table. Seating more than that will be tricky and would likely require giving up something else in your kitchen. If more seating isn't needed regularly, it seems a shame to lose something you'd use on a daily basis. My in-laws house is a small, 3 bedroom with a tiny DR that functions most of the time as a wide hallway (the table is shoved up against the wall). When they have a crowd over (family alone is a *big* crowd), they use the table as a buffet and everyone sits on chairs, couches, and fireplace hearth in LR and FR while the youngest are seated at the 3 chairs at the peninsula. In all the 23 years I've been married, I think we've only eaten at the table once and that was when it was just my in-laws, hubby and me.

Would you be willing to be flexible with seating like this, too? It's not ideal but your home's size puts limits on what's possible.

Anyway, here's my revision of Plan A with changes to the banquette:

The banquette seats 6. The light blue lines show the expanded table seating for 7. The table is a standard size but the leaf shape is unusual so the table might need to be custom made, which ups the cost. I tried to turn the table 90 degrees to expand it, butting up against the left bench but that left only 14" for chairs between table and bench on the right so that wouldn't work.

I didn't figure island size, aisle clearances yet. I will if this plan interests you, though.

Well, I figured a way to give you seating for 10 - and possibly more.

I went with a U-plan with the banquette bench against the peninsula. The peninsula cabs are 27" deep to give a bit more room between diners and work area. Oops, I goofed on the peninsula depth. I added counter overhang on the back side and that won't be needed. It will be 28.5" deep, not 30".

This plan offers room for a 36" sink cab and a 36" cook top with plenty of counter space and storage. You get everything you wish for except, unfortunately, counter seating. There is fridge landing space within 48" and oven/MW landing space is to their left.

Day to day seating for 6, expanded seating for 10 or more. As with the above plan, the light blue shows the expanded table. You can seat 8 on each side with 2 on the ends, 10 total. If you needed more space than that, you could shove the table to the window, seat 5 on each side and one on the end for a total of 11. You could even add 2 more seats by extending into the aisle for a total of 13. I honestly never thought it possible to get seating for a crowd in your kitchen. I just had to go at it from a different angle.

A variation on this plan is to go with a corner sink, like this.

Neither plan places the sink under the window but you will be able to look out the bay windows. I tried to fit the sink and DW in the bottom portion of the U but it wasn't possible. The sink ended up partly beyond the window, which is an odd look.

Here's what the peninsula bench seating could look like:

[

[traditional kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by san francisco general contractor Moroso Construction

This shows a hardwood bench. I was envisioning cushioned seat and back for more comfort in your space.

btw, if you can find a 40" x 72" table, I think you can make that work in your space. You'll have 38" - 39" between table and wall (I've drawn a 4" overhang but you can go with a 5" overhang), which is tight but doable.

Make that a 38" table, not a 40" table, to get 38"-39" clearance. A 40" wide table would net you 36"-37" between table and wall.

And I thought I'd mastered simple math. ;-p

This one butts a free-standing table against the island, seats 6 with 2 overflow to island for total of 8. I checked clearances if you extended it to 96", you can get two more people in but you come close to blocking the entry: table corner to wall corner (PR side) is 28.5". If you sat anyone at the end, they'd be in the entry (table would end 15.5" from the entry).

The table begins after the DW ends so no overlap when the door is open, which is good. It would look something like this:

[

[tropical kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/tropical-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2108) by hawaii interior designer Archipelago Hawaii, refined island designs

I deleted the prep sink from the island because I had to shrink it from 60" to 48" to make room for the table.

I added 2 easy chairs and a table to the bay window area. If the windows are counter-height, there are other options but this does create a cozy place to have coffee.

Thanks for all the input!

liriodendern and blfenton - I like the idea to narrow the opening from entry to kitchen. We were trying to walk the line between cramming the new half bathroom into the space and maintaining as open a feeling as possible so we were maximizing that opening for the sight lines from kitch/dr to living room and the openish plan feel. But another foot on that wall could get me a more functional banquette which I like. The openings are not quite as large as they appear. the opening to entry will have cased moldings which take up space and the one to the hall will have pocket doors and a little return from the counter. Yes - these is a sight line into the bedroom (which my boys share and is not the prettiest) but we have that now too. There is a TON of traffic through that opening so DH wants it as big as possible.

lisa - you are a creative whirlwind! I am going to noodle on it a little but I keep coming back to your Plan A. As much as C/D are very clever and cool I have an aversion to open counters/sinks backing onto seating. If I take the suggestion to expand the entry wall a foot and your suggestion to use a 42x60 table that expands to 72 or more then I think the L banquette could work there? Every day we are 5 but I'd like to be able to put 6 on very easily and 8 on for entertaining. Kids can perch around the island. I have a niggling doubt about committing to a banquette as the only dining are for eventual resale but I love it for us. Will have to maybe start or search for a thread about that.

Now - the orientation and seating on the island. We have an emotional attachment to island seating. It is one of the only elements of the reno dh is excited about so I hate to take it out. I know the space is tight so I was trying to cheat on my overhang and get backless stools, etc so it wouldn't feel too cramped. But point taken on how people will just scoot back so I will plan on the 15" overhang (or maybe just cheat an inch or 2 :)). My fear about turning the island 90 degrees is that the toaster and micro area will then be behind the stools and I think it will be a real traffic jam with breakfast/lunch prep if others are sitting at the island, whereas there is all that open real estate between island and entry. Maybe 2 kitty corner stools - one on each side farthest from the interior of the triangle?

p.s. i'm willing to put these plans into a more readable sketch if someone can reco a good easy and free software for that!

You're welcome! I love puzzles and coming up with kitchen plans keeps my brain from going to mush.

I drew in a 36" x 72" wide table not a 42" x 60" table in Plan A (Plan B has a 42" x 60" table but the banquette is oriented differently). The former gives you 40" clearance. The latter provides only a 36" aisle. NKBA recs are 44" aisles for walk behind seating, 36" for squeeze behind seating. I've gone with 40" in a few places in your plans, based on my experience. It also depended on where the 40" aisle was. I wouldn't do this if seating was across from an appliance. But since only 12" of the 36" aisle is across from a counter with no cab doors facing the same direction, a 36" aisle is likely not going to be an issue, even on a daily basis.

A 42" x 60" table will seat 6 - 2 on the sides, 1 on each end - with sufficient leg and table room for diners. (NKBA recommends 24" width per diner at counter height seating but I've recently learned that they upped this to 30" for table height dining.)

You'd need a 42" x 84" table to seat 8. Add in 20" for the bench at the bottom end (under the window) and you have a span of 104" total. If you want a bench to seat all 3 on the side, with 3 in chairs on the opposite and 2 on the ends, you'd need to take 24" from the entry not 12". Otherwise, someone's going to have one cheek on and one cheek off. ;-)

If you don't want to have the bench extend the full length and would use a chair for extra seating when needed, you don't need to reduce the entry. In fact, it might be a problem if you did since it could make it hard to get a chair into place at the table. I don't think you'd want to reduce the entry by more than 6". This is where you need to get the expertise of a GC or cabinet maker. I'm doing estimates to the best of my ability but you need to have a pro double check so that you make the bench the right length.

I wouldn't reduce the entry by extending the wall from the powder room end, either. Not if I understand how you want to set up the table for 8, not if you want to have room to enter the kitchen. From table corner to top corner of entry, you'd have 43" when the table is extended. You could extend the wall by 6" and still have 38" between the powder room corner and table corner but I wouldn't do more than that.

Your island ... you don't have room to run a 48" wide island top to bottom, not without going with narrow aisles. A 45" wide island gives you 40" aisles between sink and island and between sink and top run but this narrows to 37" between island and fridge. If you only had cabinets in that top aisle, I'd say go for it. But you've got oven and MW and fridge. I think you'd be unhappy with 37" aisles.

But I have an idea that might ease your concerns: angle the seating. Yes, I think this will work (I have to draw things out and do the math to figure out if an idea will work and how it will look. I'm too much of a visual processor to do otherwise.) So here's another for you to noodle over:

One seat still backs up to fridge, oven/MW and toaster oven but the other angles away so it shouldn't be an issue. This seat also doesn't interfere with an expanded table.

I shrank the island to 52" to give you 44" between table and island. I also deleted the prep sink but you could add it back. You'd have a 18" prep sink cab and a 15" cab. Your cab maker will definitely need to finesse the island cab configuration. I figured that if you cut 17" in from each side, you'd have a diagonal 24" wide but when it came to making sure there was enough leg room, well, I stumbled. You *might* be able to squeeze 3 at the island in a pinch because of the curved portion.

You didn't ask for it but I wanted to show you that if you needed more storage, you have the room to add a 45" wide, 18" deep hutch against the powder room wall. The base can be 18" deep and the top could be 12" deep.

Good, easy and free software - you might try Ferguson's On-line design tool and Lowe's Kitchen Planner. I've played with Ferguson's but it was too limited for my purposes (It didn't allow me to put in a wall less than 3' wide).

Below is the plan I am now working from thanks to all the great suggestions. Now I need help with the island! I removed the wall oven and moved the R/F and pantry around to help with island seating clearance. I also shifted the sink down further to get a 36 inch drawer stack for dishes/silver close to my table. My new questions are:

- Where are the best places for island stools? I've numbered them 1-3 in the order that I see them working the best. I have 3 kids but willing to only have 2 stools if that works best - not sure what the trade offs are. I always imagined people walking in from the front door/hall and settling on those stools (front door is left of plan).

- Once the stools are in place how should I organize the island storage (i.e. which way should cabinets face? what sizes will fit if not custom?) . Is it better to have access from the range side or the sink side? Should I try to fit the micro in the island? Would that help or hurt with traffic?

- What is a standard baking sheet/platter storage cab? I think I need one somewhere...

- Is 18" enough for garbage/recycling (there is only 17 in the plan but I think I can steal an inch somewhere). If not this may need to go in the island too.

- Is a 30 inch single basin sink big enough? I have a 33 inch double now but never use the left side...

- How much room do I need for a susan in the corner?

Thanks for any input!

I have a similar layout though quite a bit smaller, and opening my fridge door definitely blocks flow of traffic. Can people get past the fridge when the door is open? I appreciate being able to see what you came up with for your space.

A couple of answer/suggestions - my cookie sheet etc storage is above the fridge in a cabinet with built-in racks for separation. A typical lazy susan needs 12" from the corner on each side. There are other formats that require other measurements.
It might be useful to try to get the pantry out of the middle of the counter run although you might be trying to contain the junk that invariably comes from desk. A couple of suggestions to consider to see if they would work for you - either at the end of the counter run where the desk currently is, or on the left side of the fridge.

You should have 4" more between table and island. It looks like you're showing the table next to the 24" deep bench and not overhanging the bench by 4". That will help. But then I'm not sure how you show 40" and 36" to the table's right. My A-1 plan for you shows 44" and 36" with the island placed in the same spot (I had a 52" island, 42" from range wall, you have 54" island, 40" from range wall). Not sure what's going on there.

If you look at the plans I prepared for you, you'll see the size of corner Susans. They are 36", which means they extend 12" in on both sides from the corner. You don't have room to put a 36" Susan in the corner, not without shifting other cabs over. Is a sink centered under the window a must? It's going to be tough to do unless you're okay with a 5" cab between sink and corner.

Try these on for size:
36" corner Susan, a 36" sink cab (gives you more choices for sinks) and shrink the end cab by an 1". The sink will be 1" off center but I seriously doubt anyone will notice.

Blind corner cabinet (BCC) with 18" opening on range wall, 2" spacer cab (so that you can open doors and drawers near the corner) and 15" trash pull-out. Sink will be centered. Range wall cabs will change to 18" BCC, 16" cab, range. You only get a 16" cab here because the BCC has to be pulled out from the corner by 2" - same reason as why you need a 2" spacer cab, so that you can open doors and drawers near the corner.

You asked about size of sink cab and sink. That depends. You'll need to check the specs for the sink you want. It should state what size sink cab it requires. You can cheat a bit at times but you've got the room so you really don't need to. Not sure why you're planning on a 30" sink cab only.

I thought you were concerned about having counter seats back to back with the toaster oven/MW area? Are you okay with this now?

Which way does your back door swing?

domino3,
this is the only dining area you have in the entire house. How formal/informal do you want this space? I am not a fan of having banquette as THE only dining in the house. The space seems too crowded/locked in for your holiday parties and large gatherings. Will you set up another table in the LR? I am just throwing things out to you that you may not have considered.

once you put the seats on the island, there is only tiny amount of storage. Is this okay with you?

Where will you store all the kids acoutrements? Crayons, paper, markers. The stuff that is in my kitchen for my kids. Just curious. Do you make them go downstairs for that? My kids like being in the kitchen with the parents.

Sorry, but you realize that all the circulation for the entire house is through the kitchen? Before you start looking at your kitchen, you may want to look at that powder room and see if there a better way to lay it out.

lisa - good catch. You are right - there is 44 between table and island with a banquette. There is only 34 between table and sink run so I may need to reduce that run a little more. I assume the side door will swing in (it will be a new wall - I should have mentioned - both sink walls and range walls are new construction). I feel better about stools backing the micro wall since I shifted the fridge over more and don't have the oven there. Seems like the catty corner stools really reduce storage and my dh doesn't want to knock knees there (he's tall)so I am back to 2 stools on the longer side.

kaismom - It does make me nervous to commit to a banquette as the only dining area in the house although I believe it would work fine for us right now and for the casual entertaining that we do. I was thinking that I could always set up a small table in the living room if needed for special occasions. Today I am thinking maybe I should plan the dining space to work with a stand alone table and then consider banquettes for phase 2 or removable ones if we want to sell later? The banquette seems to buy me about 12 more inches of counter and 6 more inches of island in the room. Style wise I am very California casual/Pottery Barn and with such a small home there's no room for real formal areas. For the island - if I put the stools on one side only I still get some storage right? Does this plan look short on storage to you? I have so little now that I have no context. My kids bedrooms are literally 5 steps from the kitchen (where the hall is indicated) so art supplies are in there. Pencils for homework are in the kitchen. This is part of what I'm envisioning the kitchen desk at the end will be used for.

felixnot - It has been an agonizing design process and your point does concern me - it is not ideal - although most people now go through the kitchen anyway. To squeeze in a bath in this footprint with the entry traffic running through the middle of the house is very challenging. The floorplan is at the top of the thread and if you have any thoughts I would love to hear them! We are building 2 new walls (sink and range walls)but the measurements in my plan are the max for the lot. Previous iterations had a 4x6 or 4.5x7 bath sticking out from the hall across half of the living room. The bathroom really "stuck out" to us (if you were standing in the kitchen facing the living room the bathroom wall blocked half of the fireplace view)and you had to squeeze around the dining table to get into the kitchen. Hard to explain but there were very few options for the bath and it is critical to get it in!

Thanks for your feedback. It's helpful to work through the issues.

For the traffic issue, I'd consider making an opening to the hall next to the new powder room and moving the doorway to the master bedroom opposite the new opening.

That way you could walk directly from the living room into the hallway and the small closet would then be in the hallway.

Just something to think about. :)

There is alot packed into the floor plan. I agree that you need another bath/toilet. Do you have have a second shower in the basement? With three kids, the shower will quite busy in a few years. In a small house, powder room is a luxury..... If I had to chose a second bath with shower in the basement or a powder room, I would chose the basement shower...

I am also someone that believes in balanced room sizes for the house. To me, small houses should not have a huge kitchen at the expense of some other rooms. I would use the basement for the overflow storage of kitchen stuff, if needed. You need to balance the LR/DR/Kitchen/second bath (+/-) all on this floor plan.

cal-dreamer - that is a good thought on the traffic!

kaismom - I agree with you on balance. The lower level of the house has a full bath and a family room plus a small office/guest room. However 5 people sleep upstairs so that bath gets heavy use and the kids are getting big! Our goal for the remodel was not a bigger kitchen - just a more functional one with more storage that was more open to other areas.

Now I'm really feeling uncertain!

I crossposted on remodeling but I wanted to post here as well. I drew up an alternative layout that improves the traffic flow from front door to the back half of the house so it doesn't go through the kitchen as several of you pointed out as something to avoid:

Yellow lines are optional walls if I want to have symmetrical casings (except yellow line in kitchen - that is our current wall). Front door cannot shift left any further due to slope and garage underneath.

Pros to this layout: better traffic flow from entry to back half of house.
Cons: right half of the house seems crowded and kitchen seems more closed off (a lot of light comes in the opening the halfbath shifted into). Cannot expand table for large holiday gatherings withought blocking path into kitchen. Sacrifice 30 inches of kitchen counter (was going to be the desk).

As to the kitchen layout - it's still a little cramped and awkward. I realized the R/F door swings 16 inches so I have to keep it out from the wall by about 18 inches or it will hit the wall/sidedoor. This is a shame since it will be slightly behind the island now instead of lining up with the aisle.

Would love feedback on the floorplan options and whether to add a wall to the left of the entry in either plan...Comments are all helpful but have led to me have icy feet about the whole thing. I don't want my house to scream awkward remodel!!

Thanks so much!

This is a cross-post from the Remodeling forum, since this thread is more active.

I definitely like the last design better. Traffic will flow more easily, it all seems to work together, and it doesn't have that rooming-house bath-squeezed-into-a-corner-of-the-room feel. I vote for the optional living room walls, too.

If you put a bench seat in the bay window, you could shift the table toward it by 2 1/2' or so and seat more people at holiday dinners,

You mentioned that you will lose the desk in the kitchen. Could you put a nice small desk in the living room to make up for it? Maybe a corner desk, in one of the entry-hall corners? This would also give you a small chair for extra seating when needed.

Sorry, in my previous post I meant put a window seat in the bay, not a bench seat.

Can you shift the entry at all? If so, I suggest that you move it 2' towards the living room, shifting the powder room over as well. That would allow you to have 42" around your table, a longer island and still have a decent sized living room. IMO, an 18" wide LR seems out of scale with a DR that allowed only 30" around a table, which is not enough room to allow anyone to move past someone seated at the table. Also, anyone seated in the two chairs at the end and lower left corner would be as cornered, so to speak, as if they were seated on a banquette bench seating. They could not get up and out without asking someone else to move.

Hmm- my response did not show up. I am trying again.

chimi - I posted again on remodeling. Thanks for all your feedback on this! Sadly the bay is just a bay window so no window seat option.

lisa- the entry is as far to the left as it can go. There is a big dropoff down to the driveway. Garage is under living room.

I am so confused that I am back to contemplating just updating the kitchen I have in its footprint. I may start a new thread to look at how I could maximize that option.

Thanks everyone!

I'm back! Thanks to all the great help and suggestions here we are now looking at 2 new layout options. I really want to nail the whole house layout so I can actually focus on the kitchen :) But given my small space each option has tradeoffs. Please give me input on which plan you like best (function, form, room balance, etc)
(I am crossposting on remodeling but you guys have great insights and I took many of your suggestions so I posted here. Note that neither plan contains a banquette as I would prefer to not be committed to a banquette as my only dining area. I figure I can always build it in later)

Plan A:

Pros of this Plan:
Spacious island with seating
Slightly better kitchen storage?
Very open flow

Cons of this Plan:
No real entry - walk into middle of dining and kitchen
Dining area "floats"
Table is a bit of a hike from kitchen
Curb appeal? Either flat facade with popout porch or a popped out front door area which seems very strange and isn't common around here
Very open flow (I am conflicted about this - I like it in other homes but usually they have formal areas in addition or more of an L - my space feels railroad carlike and it is the first impression of my home and the only possible more formal area (TV room is downstairs)

PLAN B (bay window would shift right a little)

Pros:
more defined entry with symmetrical casings to frame living room and kitchen/dining (these aren't drawn well - use your imagination)
Table close to food
Curb appeal: bay window/seat, front door set in

Cons:
More casual (table in kitchen)
No island seating/slightly smaller kitchen
Not sure whether people at table could interact with those in living room
Will kitchen feel crowded?

Would love input from you all!

prefer plan B

Thanks herbflavor! Anyone else? I should add that we have a TV/family room downstairs so this is not our only living space . Also - if I go open plan my inspiration kitchen/floor plan is cali wendy's but I have the darn front door entrance to contend with and it can't shift too far left due to the garage under living room!

Here is a link that might be useful: cali wendy's space

I much prefer A. I would also think about adding an overhang for one more stool on the left side depending on how much space there is between it and when you step in the front door. Could you scoot the front door left a bit?

I like A (and not just because my idea led to this design). Plan A gives you the island seating you said you wanted, plus it gives the flexibility you need to expand the table as needed for company. Plan B doesn't quite provide that same flexibility, plus it doesn't offer overflow seating at the island. I'm assuming that these are still things you want in your redesign.

I have another concern with Plan B. I understand why you've created the jogs in the hallway for the kids' wing - to reduce sight lines into private spaces - but please be aware that those angles could make it difficult to move furniture into those bedrooms and down the stairs. We have 2 tight corners in our upstairs - one by the boys' rooms, one by the play room - and both have made moving furniture in and out of those rooms a challenge. We're going to try to fix one of those tight corners when we do some remodeling - fingers crossed, that is. If not, the couch that is in the play room - the one that we had to take the door off the hinges and unscrew the couch's legs so that the couch would fit through the doorway, and even then, it was still tight because of the angle - may never come out again. We walked through a home with our floor plan but walking through is a completely different experience than moving in.

Good points about both plans, but I like Plan B. Of course, the big bay window seat is a huge 'selling point' (LOL) as is the wall, opposite the front door. I like having an entry, not a line of sight to the bedrooms. Have you thought about putting your piano on that wall?