We hired a design build and just started our reno a few days ago.

We paid $300 for a fantastic, independent KD to design something for us. We were going to go with a contractor but we needed more handholding and organization than he was able to provide (same situation- little kids and a DH who works long hours). Then we met with design builds (in the DC area the retainer is $1k and up) and showed them the design we were thinking about and our budget. From there we hired the firm who could work within our budget to give us most of our wish list.

It worked really well for us but I know that different areas have different ways of doing things.

I think the problem the OP is facing is that she isn't even hearing a ballpark (hourly or otherwise) from any of the firms she's talked to.

The only thing I can offer is to be very careful of your quotes. Do not accept a quote that gives "allowances." However busy you are you need to do your own research, know what you want and what it costs. Anything else will lead to disappointment or massive cost overruns. If you get an allowance of $3000 for counters (for example) and haven't done your research you may think that's fine. Until you actually go to pick out counters and discover it will not buy what you want. Now you have to compromise or fork over more money. Those kinds of things can add up in a hurry.

I don't know a whole lot about this, but don't you set the budget? As in, "This is how much money we have to spend. This is a list of the improvements we are interested in. Can you give us the remodel we want and your services for that amount?"

Christina222 has a really good point. I had done a ton of research before we started calling people. I knew how much things were going to cost and had an idea of what the total budget could be. I knew we were probably going to be faced with the costs of upgrading wiring, plumbing etc and I had budgeted for a contingency fund for the "by the way this is rotting, out of alignment, wasn't done properly..."

I was honest with myself about how far money actually stretches and it doesn't stretch very far.

Jullius - for us we did have a budget, The problem with your way of thinking is that people will say "yes, we can give you your hearts desire for that budget and then part way through the reno will say, oops we screwed up and we need more money"

We didn't tell anyone our budget.

Start with the average price for projects in your area. Nationally, that's 55K for a mid grade kitchen and 110K for an upscale kitchen. If you're doing an addition, or needing to upgrade the wiring and plumbing, add in more. Have a contingency fund. The more research that YOU do on the front end, the lower the contingency budget can be. If you don't want to spend time doing a lot of research, have at least a 40% contingency on board. Yes, I said 40%. The "while we're at it's" are budget busters and older homes eat money during a renovation like kids eat Nerds. If you do a bunch of research on the front end and know exactly the products that you want to use, you might get by with a 10-15% contingency budget.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cost vs Value

Isn't a big part of a project manager's job to stay on budget? I know people in similar positions in other fields who won't work with people who don't have a budget because it causes so many problems if the bottom line is vague from the get-go.

I am genuinely surprised that they didn't ask you for a budget.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, the problem is that we can't even get a ballpark from the firms. We definitely know what we want and have done some research to get a general idea of what that would cost. But as countless threads on this forum seem to prove, there is a huge range for everything. Based on my research, I think I can get what I want for $60-$80k. For example, I know I want semi-custom cabinets. I would love to have inset doors and other upgrades. One firm may be able to work those upgrades into my budget, while another couldn't. One might come in right around $60k for what I want, while another may be closer to the $80k point (we are also moving a wall). One may be able to allow for higher-end appliances. I just want the best/most I can get within my budget. At this point, I really don't have any way of knowing who is the best overall value, which is why I'm at a loss. Or, am I wrong that there can be that huge of a range for pricing between different firms?

Also, each of the three firms has said that they can work within our budget, but again, what exactly does that mean? You can do it for $80k without all the upgrades, or you can do it for $65 with upgrades?

Having read our various participating KDs for a while now, I think this is the way it works:

First come the expenses that are givens: wall removal, electric, plumbing, permits, etc. After that most firms carry at least three lines of cabinets in a range of prices. You can choose a less expensive line (which doesn't mean it's econo-cheap) and then use your splurges for a fabulous Wolf range and a Sub-Zero fridge. You can go with insets and choose Samsung appliances. If you want to-die-for granite, you'll have to compromise elsewhere. It's all a balancing act that a good KD can help you negotiate. I don't think it's a question of one can do things magically for less than the others (unless they're using unskilled labor!! OMG, the "plumber" is actually a handyman or a tiler whose first job was last week!), but someone who can help you make the choices that keep you in your comfort range, barring nasty surprises, of course.

Have you checked the references on the 3 you've spoken to? A silver tongue and a charming manner are all well and good, but check their last 10(?) customers and talk to them. Did the job go as planned? Did the workers come regularly, behave professionally, and make good progress? Are they happy with the workmanship? Are they happy with their interactions with the firm? Remember that some people are just cranky, so evaluate complaints accordingly. If there was a problem, how was it resolved? Check the lines of cabinetry each carries. Do you prefer one set of choices over another?

I think your final checklist will look something like this:

1. Find a business that carries cabinetry that you like, especially if you like at least a couple of their offerings.

2. Check their references... thoroughly.

3. Find a KD that you feel you can work with. He/she listens to you and explains things so you understand them. There's a lot of stuff in a contract that will be new to you, so you'll need lots of tutoring.

4. Be sure you understand how the billing works and how overages are handled.

5. If you have questions on things like allowances, or stuff in the contract you're wondering about, come back here and ask.

Suzanne- that is extremely helpful! Thank you very much.

"Jullius - for us we did have a budget, The problem with your way of thinking is that people will say "yes, we can give you your hearts desire for that budget and then part way through the reno will say, oops we screwed up and we need more money"

We didn't tell anyone our budget."

Not telling your potential contractor your budget is like trying to make your doctor guess at what hurts because you're afraid he may order unnecessary tests.

I'm a contractor and I told my own brother and his wife that they couldn't support such an important relationship without mutual trust and respect. They took my advice and their project, a whole house in Mexico, came in on time and within budget.

As did our whole house renovation.

Sorry but you've got an upper end request list and a mid range budget. Perhaps that is part of the reason that you've not gotten much success at narrowing down any contractors. No one wants to lose the possible fish on the hook by telling you the truth, so they're stringing you along until they do get the retainer. Then the design happens, and all of a sudden, it 120K to do everything that you want to do.