This is really hard to read and I'm not sure why some things are marked in orange. Going by your picture, it seems you're leaving the sink and range 'as is' and moving the fridge...where? Is that the orange mark on the left/pantry wall?

So basically, you want to take out the wall, behind the range and move the fridge? Then, where you have the table now, you might have the table or a desk...and put the table on the other side of the island?

In order to get some help, you really need to post the measurements of your room. If they're on there now, I can't read them. Do you plan to have a microwave? Why do you need a desk? Do you need a lot of seating for the daycare? Would a corner banquette work better, where you have the table, now? Could your baking area be another oven, under the island...or a larger range with two ovens? With little kids underfoot, I don't think I'd want the ovens on the pantry wall, unless you had a landing space, next to it. Just my two cents :)

Thank you for replying! I will try to redo the pictures. I'm sorry it's so hard to read, I wish I could get one of the online programs to work with my computer.
Yes, the measurements are on there, the room overall is 22' wide and 23'6" long. The appliances are orange so they're easier to identify, I was trying to keep the "triangle" in mind as I'm not a KD and really have no clue what I'm doing :)
The refrigerator is the orange on the pantry wall, yes. Yes, I must have a microwave, lol! I planned on putting it on a shelf in the pantry, so it's out of sight but still within reach.
Why do I need a desk? we were thinking it could be a good computer landing station (we have laptops) and a central location for the kids to sit and do homework and such. Currently they sit at the kitchen table or on the couch, not ideal. But it's not a necessity...the kitchen table DOES work OK for now. And they have their bedrooms.
I don't need a lot of seating for the daycare, I have a daycare space in my basement, complete with a kitchenette. Just for the 6 of us plus any neighborhood stray kids we have in for dinner.
I've thought of a corner banquette, but there are floor radiators in that corner. They would have to be custom built...it could be done. I don't like how someone is always "stuck" in the middle of banquette style seating, but we could live with it.

Yes, I could do 2 ovens for baking, I'm trying to do it on the cheap and found a double oven I like for $1400 (plus $600 for a 5-burner stove top). I haven't bought them yet. I thought if the ovens were on the right side wall (opposite the fridge) it would be a nicer space to keep the hot stuff away from the kids...and there would be counters by it. But IDK if that's too far away from the other appliances? (first picture/layout)

Unfortunately, I also cannot read it. Here are some tips...you may have already done these, if so, then ignore them!
Draw up the kitchen space on graph paper (if you did this, I cannot tell, sorry!) Initially, don't worry about cabinets, appliances, islands, etc., just draw up the space.
Measure and label everything...walls, ceiling height, widths of doors/doorways & windows, distances between windows, walls, doors/doorways, posts, etc.
Mark all doors/doorways & windows (with dimensions) and label them as to where they lead. If they're actual doors, mark how they swing.
Make note of traffic flows in and out of the kitchen
It also would be helpful to see the connecting rooms, even entire first floor layouts (or whatever floor your kitchen is on), so we see how they interact with the kitchen and/or extend the kitchen feel and flow.
What appliances do you plan on having (helps to figure out work flow, work zones, and types of cabinets...upper/lower vs full height, etc.)

• • Range or Cooktop or Rangetop?

• Single or Double or no Wall Oven?

• Warming Drawer?

• MW? (Advantium, MW Drawer, OTR MW/Hood, countertop, built-in, shelf?)

• DW? Standard or drawers? If drawers, 1 or 2?

• Refrigerator (Top/bottom freezer, SxS, or all-fridge/freezer? Counter-depth (CD), standard-depth, or built-in?)

• Ventilation Hood?

• Other?

Sizes of desired appliances (e.g., 30" or 36" or 48" cooktop; 36" or 42" or 48" wide or other Refrigerator? etc.)
Pantry: Walk-in or cabinets? In the Kitchen or outside the Kitchen (e.g., Mudroom or hall)?

Do you have a scanner? If so, it will most likely give you a better "picture" of the floor plan than taking a picture of it with a camera. If you must use a camera (I did when I planned my kitchen!), take a picture of the floor plan from above, not the side. You may have to put the floor plan on the floor and stand over it to take a picture.

Zoom in on the floor plan so there's nothing else in the picture except the floor plan.

You may also have to post a bigger size to be legible. I suggest posting a bit bigger here and providing an even bigger version in a Photobucket album for us to click to to review...either a direct link or create a public album on your Photobucket account and put the Kitchen Design pics there for everyone to see. Just make the kitchen pictures public, leave the rest private....no one will be able to see that you even have a private album, we will only see the public albums.

Hope this helps and good luck!

You have some nice storage on your future island. Could you use a range (cooktop and oven) there and maybe a wall oven/microwave on the patry wall. You could still store pots and pans in drawers, next to the range. I think I'd swap the fridge and wall oven, so your fridge is closer to the door (not hot) and easier to access from the sink area.

If you're planning to have the island for prep/kids, then the ovens on the end will make sense. Closer to the island, when you take the cool pans (with cookies ready to go in) and put them in the oven. Maybe a small slab or granite, between the fridge and oven for hot landing space. Just a thought :)

Corner banquettes can be a bit 'scrunched' if that's a word (LOL) but they also hold a lot of people. If there's space, you could have a banquette on one side (long side) of the table and chairs on three sides. Will that fit, with your island?

Also, would there be a way to have the 'desk area' on the island? Could the kids use their laptops there? Maybe have some printer/paper/file storage on the other side of the ovens? Just some shelves with a cabinet underneath might work well. Hope that helps :)

Thank you for the help, I really do appreciate it! I'm trying to get an easier to see floor plan, IDK if this will work, but it has my kitchen measurements w/ doors/windows and floor obstacles (the short rectangle is a floor radiator, about 7" tall, and the larger rectangle is stairs to the foyer) The cabinets though are all wrong, and I've tried and tried to get them moved around and the planner keeps crashing before I can do much. I did this about a month ago when the program was working better on my computer.
As a quick refresher, I basically need help figuring out placement of appliances (wall ovens on the right/pantry side or the left/table side) and dining area (rectangle or semi-circle island attachment or separate table) Whether one of the suggestions I've made (keeping water/gas lines as is) or a new suggestion from someone thinking outside of the box.
Thanks!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Ikea planner link

Fearsome- I tried your link and it just went to the intro page of Ikea planner.

Instead, why don't you post your measurements and window/door locations? Something like...sink wall is 30" from corner to door, 40" for door, 48" to window over sink, 36" for sink window, etc. Also give us the dimensions for the pantry wall and island area, with space for aisles. You should also add the table wall, since you've asked about that area, too.

There are people here with great software (unfortunately, not me) who might help you, if the dimensions are provided. Lisa, Buehl, Bmore, Rhome and many others will have excellent ideas, but they need to know the size of your space. Hope that helps :)

If you read it closely, the ikea planner site wants to install a viewer (made by 20/20). After you install the viewer, re-click the link to view the drawing.

There are a couple of goofy things about ikea cabinets that you have no reason to know. It's not much, but here goes--

1. Cabinets up against a wall need starter molding - a.k.a. filler. It doesn't need to be much 3/4" will do it. This allows the door or drawers to open freely and not bind on the wall - even when its raining.

2. When the dw is on the end of a run, you make an assembly to hold up the end coverpanel and it usually has another filler on the front of it. There is some buried 3/4" material to support the coverpanel even if somebody kicks it.

3. There is an oven or ref side tall cover panel that is 30" deep. Ordinarily, you'd take two and put them on both sides of the over the ref cabinet and trim them to an exact depth to match the fridge body plus an inch. Then you pad out behind the over the ref cabinet so the front ends up in the proper place.

4. If you raise or lower the cabinet heights, its a lot easier with toe kicks then capita feet.

5. Every exposed side of every cabinet needs a cover panel.

That's it.

You already know that the planner is whining cause you don't have at least 17" between the counter and the bottom of the wall cabinets. You might consider changing over to 30" tall cabinets or raising the wall cabinets up to near the ceiling height.

Lavendar, thanks for your reply. I haven't had time this week to sit down and type up measurements. I did sit down with my husband last night and we hammered out a floorplan, I'll be ordering cabinets today (he started demo yesterday, so now I really feel pressed for time...but he couldn't wait to get rid of the '70s trim & paneling)

bmorpanic, Thank you so much, that really is helpful info...Ikea should make all this stuff clear on their site!!
I did finally get the ikea website to work using IE (I normally use google chrome, perhaps that's why?) ...again, Ikea should have this info on their site, would save lots of frustration!!
If I can figure out how to take a screenshot and post the layout, I will update it to this thread (maybe later this week) not that it matters terribly anymore, we're semi-locked in to the new layout after today....and we're happy with it.