I will state for the record that I did not even consider homes without separate dining rooms, but many others do not want to consider homes with them so either way you will win some or lose some buyers. What age is your home? I am always sad when people take the wall out in older homes to "open" up the kitchen. It just is not in keeping with the home's history. But if it is a newer home it does not bother me as much but I do not like to eat meals in the kitchen, I like to forget about the mess till afterwards.

I would say that if you eliminate the separate room but not the space for a dining room table, you would be fine for most people. There will always be those who want a large dining room, but if space is limited, having a daily dining space is fine as long as it is not in the middle of the kitchen and the only place to eat (not counting fabulous large showplace kitchens). In an even smaller place, one place to eat is fine. The size/price of the house will dictate the expectations. Many people would give up a kitchen table for having a larger table that got used more often nearby.
I recently had a listing with a small dining area as the only space to eat. There was no room for any accompanying furniture pieces and feeding 6 people would have been fairly tight. It was the one thing based on feedback that kept that house from selling. People want the ability to seat more if needed.
In our house we opened up the back wall of our dining room and added on a den. Our dining room is the same size as before and maybe even bigger because it could spread if needed, but some people may not like that it is not a formal room. You can't please everyone.....

I don't intend this as criticism, but an actual question. Are you actually concerned about resale, or are you influenced by the TV shows? Are you going to live there for some time, or just a few years. Keeping in mind that unless you have a job or family that moves you frequently (military?) a "few" years becomes many before you know it.

I don't entertain much, so my dining area of about that size, with a big window, became my den. It's cozy and convenient. I have a peninsula in the kitchen, with a dining table that seats 6 on the other side.

Bottom line, it's a 50/50. Do what you like and what feels good for your home. If it's remaining unused space? What would make it usable. I think function is more important in odd spaces such as this.

You haven't said what you would love.
Christine

Thanks for all of your replies. The house is a basic 70's ranch house - 1500 sq feet on the main floor and a finished basement. The layout is pretty choppy right now and the entry from our garage comes into the current "dining room". We have to walk through the dining room from the garage to get to the kitchen.

Our plan was to move things around to make it more functional - make part of the current dining room into a mud room and move our washer and dryer in there. The washer and dryer are currently in a closet - IN OUR KITCHEN - which I absolutely hate doing laundry in our kitchen. The rest of the current dining room would be incorporated into the kitchen. We are at a stand still in our layout due to where to put a dining table.

We dont entertain very much - dont have the big family gatherings during holidays. I wont miss a formal dining room. On the other hand, we will be spending quite a chunk of change to do this renovation and I dont want to spend 50K on the mudroom/kitchen (along with a new roof) and then in the future try and sell and everyone say "gee, if only they thought of this before they spent all that money" :)

This house is on a 12 acre farm that the separate mudroom/laundry area would be very very very useful. Otherwise we track mud/hay/grass/dirt through the dining room in to the kitchen to put our dirty clothes into the washer. YUCK :)

i would prefer to have a dining room when shopping for a house. it does not have to be huge but having one would matter to me.

Please post a layout to the home complete with a grid/dimensions of rooms and doorways/windows. My other house had a 11x12 dining room and now I don't have one. I don't miss it one bit.

Y'know...I also insist on having a formal dining room, but if it's too small to seat at least ten people it's of no use to me. I'd certainly want to open it up to gain more seating, but I wouldn't sacrifice the space to the kitchen. I'd have a no seating island and a bigger dining area.

I did exactly that when I remodeled my kitchen last year. My old dining room was about 10x11 and the kitchen was about 9x11. My house is a small 1930's colonial. I had the wall taken down between the kitchen and dining room and stole 9" from the dining room. I host most holidays as well as a yearly extended family Christmas get-together.

I had a very hard time making the decision to take down the wall as a separate dining room was on my 'must have' list when I bought the house 18 years ago. I love the new open space and even though the new dining area is a bit smaller than it was, it feels bigger. With the table expanded I have fit up to 10 people during holiday dinners. I can't even imagine how I could have fit that in the larger dining room. I don't know if doing this negatively affected the market value of my house, but everyone who sees the new space comments on how open it feels.

Before dining room

new kitchen / dining area

Here is a link that might be useful: Before and after pictures

Pretty kitchen katsmah!

You don't need a dining room defined by solid walls, obviously, and do really need that space for other functions, but it's important to plan just where that must-have dining place will be...

I'd say a 1500 square foot house should always have ROOM to seat 8 (minimum) for dinner, even if the people never entertain and their table of choice only seats 2. Just a matter of meeting a basic function. Besides, our lifestyles always change over time. No telling what we might want and need some day.

However, nothing says everyone has to sit at one table ("the" table). Two tables can be great. Two little tables in a nice living room, with noise-absorbing upholstery, can be much "nicer" for dining than one fully exposed to the noise and mess of the kitchen. The two should be within sight, and preferably easy earshot, of each other for that good party feeling, tho.

Whether one or two, it also doesn't have to be up gathering dust all the time. Two 3'-square tables will seat 8, and one could fold up in a closet when not used. Or one square or rectangle could expand to seat 10 when needed, then fold down. Our drop-leaf table seats only the 2 of us when its sides are dropped and its leaves in the closet (almost all of the time), but it expands quickly to hold 10, 12 in a squeeze.

But--where would your table(s) go when the dining room is taken to make up for deficiencies in other areas? Good "natural" place(s) for this should be planned for with this remodel. 2-1/2 to 3 feet on each side would be needed for access to the chairs, of course, and pushing your big easy chairs up against the couch to make room is not allowed. :)

I think one needs to be able to fit 8 people at a table to be able to call it a dining room or dining area. Most people could make do with that and be happy, whether it was an area off the kitchen or a separate room. If losing the dining room means you could only have a smaller table to eat at, it would hurt resale in many cases (unless it is a smaller condo or such).

I had a ranch set up like yours and it is still like that. The way to the garage and bsmt was/is by walking past our dining room table. That has not changed. Of course, we don't live on a farm! Our dirty clothes come in the front or back doors.

We did not have the laundry on the main floor prior, but took some of the original kitchen space and turned it to face into the bedroom hallway to make a laundry closet. That made it across from the main family bathroom and an easy place for those taking a shower/bath to deposit the dirty laundry on the way out. We had extended our kitchen and reoriented it, so giving up the space was easy. I love how the extra toilet paper, paper towels, wipes and tissues from Costco are now housed in the new laundry room on shelves and not in our then not-working shower in the master bathroom (since gone) or downstairs. Doing laundry on the main level is so much easier as you know when it is time for the next load and anyone walking by can put the stuff in the dryer... It is funny, but now that it is easier to do, I have more helpers pitching in....

We are just about finished with our remodel & took down the wall between the kitchen & the small dining room 10' x 12' and made it all a very large kitchen. We also had a 16' x 13' formal living room that I converted into a semi formal dining room that we eay dinner in every night. We really didn't need a family room and a formal living room. I love the big kitchen. I am not worried about resale, as we don't plan to sell anytime soon.

I was considering knocking out our wall between our kitchen/dining room. The 1 thing that made us decide against it was that that wall, in our home, is a MAJOR loadbearing wall. Since you are in a ranch style, this may not be as big of an issue, but ours was basically holding up our master bathroom. So, we would have had to have some type of support beams which we felt would interfere with our "open" floorplan idea.
That said, if I were looking at buying a huge farm where i knew I'd be tracking in mud and such and I saw laundry IN the kitchen, I'd run far faster than if I went into a home and saw there was no "formal dining area". Maybe someone who entertains a ton would say no, but I guess I just don't envision someone buying a farm who's main priority is entertaining people a great deal. If that is their issue, they have plenty of land to build a really great outdoor area to entertain in!

"I am always sad when people take the wall out in older homes to "open" up the kitchen. It just is not in keeping with the home's history. "

Last night as I was driving down the road, it was the strangest thing to see a big stainless refrigerator front and center through the living room window! I realized that they'd probably removed a wall to open the living room into a great room. Maybe they realized at the time of the reno and didn't care, but its very odd. I know these houses. It's the formal living room area as you walk in the front door.

We build our home without a formal dining room so it's obviously okay with us. If that works for your family then I say go or it!

We debated over the last twenty years whether or not to take down the wall between our small kitchen and dining room (L shaped with living room).We were concerned that if we removed the wall everyone would see the mess in the kitchen. We entertain fairly frequently with friends in our small home. We host the big holiday dinners etc by putting up card tables end to end and moving the living room furniture over. We removed the wall and Thanksgiving worked out better than I would have thought even though the kitchen wasn't fully finished. It felt like we had more room in the dining area though we didn't in reality because it was more open. As I was concerned about the mess I precooked and/or prepped and ended up having a much more relaxing time. I enjoyed being able to have my DD assist me without constantly bumping into each other.

Having a separate mud/laundry room sounds like it would make your life much easier. That is so important-I was thrilled when we put in a front walkway and greatly minimized the dirt coming in the house. Think of all the time you'll save not cleaning up!

If you live on a farm (as we do) you probably need the mud room, laundry, and maybe a big pantry...more than the dining room. That being said, if you could find a way to do both...that might be even better. Is there anyway to incorporate more space for a laundry/mudroom from another area?

It might help, if you could sketch a quick layout of your main floor. How many bedrooms do you have? Do you have egress bedrooms in the basement? Could one of the main floor bedrooms, be the new dining room? Just some ideas :)

"Our plan was to move things around to make it more functional - make part of the current dining room into a mud room and move our washer and dryer in there. The washer and dryer are currently in a closet - IN OUR KITCHEN - which I absolutely hate doing laundry in our kitchen. The rest of the current dining room would be incorporated into the kitchen. "the entry from our garage comes into the current "dining room". We have to walk through the dining room from the garage to get to the kitchen. mudroom/laundry area would be very very very useful. Otherwise we track mud/hay/grass/dirt through the dining room in to the kitchen to put our dirty clothes into the washer. YUCK :)"

That sounds terrible. Bottom line is to build for yourself. If things aren't functional as they stand that will still hurt resale anyway. The next owners will hate the current arrangement just as you do (but it has sold, no). If the seating will be the same when within the new kitchen, I would opt to lose the separate room for it. It's the friends and feast that matters not the location, afterall. If I could somehow swing a larger dining room, I'd try to do that but maybe do it in such a way that it was fairly open. It could always be used for other purposes. I've seen some dual as a library office.

Like you, I live in a 1500 sq. ft. ranch. The kitchen is pretty small-
ample counter space, but no eating area. Every meal is eaten in
the moderate sized dining room. In the 31 years we've lived here,
I've longed for an eat-in kitchen.

The design for our new build, a center hall colonial, does NOT
have a formal dining room. We have dedicated that space as my
study. Instead, we'll have a huge den/dining combo, with direct
access, but not completely open to, a large kitchen with breakfast
nook.

We did not want to have a dedicated formal dining space that would
only get used 4/5 times a year. We are casual people, and the bulk
of our entertaining is the same. So, a family room/dining room
combination suits our needs.

However, in the far future, when the house is put up for sale, there
will always be the option for new owners to convert the study into
a formal dining room. Everybody wins.

I appreciate all of the feedback - thanks so much!

I have the original floor plan on the ikea planner -and two other layouts that we have been working on. Is there an easy way to post the pictures?

This might be helpful: Below is one of the "after" floor plans that we did on sketchup. The new plan would take 9 feet of the old dining room and part of the sunroom and make it into a new entry - one door into the mudroom and a nicer door that would enter into the sitting area.

Is 9 feet too wide for the laundry/mudroom? Is 7 or 6 feet acceptable? We want to put cabinets and as much storage in there as possible - dog kennels, food bowls, etc. The washer and dryer are currently in a closet located at the bottom right of the photo and will hopefully be moved to the mudroom. The other option is to move them to the basement.

In the photo- what looks to be the remnants of a wall inbetween the sunroom and the kitchen is the original wall between them. It is an original outside wall of the house - they added the sunroom later - so this will be a major undertaking to open this area up. It might not be completely open - I am okay with support posts as long as they can be incorporated in the design somehow.

I am open to any and all ideas. We have considered going to an architect - but everyone wants to charge about 10K for the plans. We only have about 50K for this and plan on doing most of this DIY - NOT the structural stuff. We will hire out the roof, opening the wall up, and any framing or drywall. We can do the plumbing, electrical and the rest ourselves. The cabinets will most likely be Ikea - no new appliances are planned right now.

Here is a link that might be useful: after layout

I, too, have a 1974, 2200 SF ranch. I have 6.5 acres and dogs.

I have to tell you that you'll use a darned mud room, laundry and open kitchen far more often than you'll set up a bunch of guests for a formal dinner every day.

Since you seem to have a bug about what people will say in the future, keep in mind that if they're buying a working farm and you tromp right into the kitchen to sit down at the nice dining room? Someone's gonna wish they had a mudroom to take care of all that mud and grass mess!

My house, like many ranches, is linear. If you enter from the garage, you have mudroom (where the dogs have their door to a fenced yard), kitchen, (peninsula) dining area (seats 6 comfortable, can be more).
Then we have a wall, behind which is the MBR, then MBR bath.
Turn left and you're into the laundry room.
Continue turning left and you keep walking back down the house to end up at the den. That was the former "formal" dining room, which doors to the kitchen. So we make a loop.

Can you picture this? It's all functional and if you live in the country, it works. Drop boots & coats in the mudroom, then in the MBR, drop dirty clothes in the adjoining laundry. (No one walking nekked thru the house with GIANT windows!)

I'd make the mudroom as big as it would allow, while still making design sense. You've got a lot going on in there. Kennels, laundry baskets, folding areas, food, (water? I have a dump sink, thank God!) coats, boots, umbrellas, (kids?) sports equipment, (stop me....!!!!) I wish I had one of those single, deep tub type things to wash my dogs in. That might be in the future.

Anyway, it'll look big until you fill it.
I highly recommend you go for it. Particularly once you mentioned mud and grass. [LOL]
Christine

Christine, two years ago, we found a clearance shower base with 2 foot side walls at Lowes marked down to $5 - it had a few chips and dings in it - not a pretty one by any means. We made it into a dog bath in the corner of our garage area complete with instant hot water to wash muddy dogs. It was finished at Christmas time - and I swear it was the best present ever! :) We have three dogs of our own and also do foster care for our local humane society. I can now fill horse water buckets in the same tub - love it!

And yes, we (I) mow weekly from early April to late Oct and am usually covered with grass clippings, poison ivy, hay, mud - you name it.

After talking with several people - I am considering that if we need to sell this place down the road - we will make the formal living room into a dining room. We want to use it as an additional TV room for now - but when we first moved in we put our large dining room table in that location because the original dining room was so small and dark.

Like many of you have said - if people are looking for a working farm property - a formal living room will probably not be that important to them.

Lucky girl on the tub! :)
I'd love to have that. Mine are old and I won't shock them with hot water. Given the fact that my own plumbing isn't finished, I haven't got a tub.

I'm evidently going to foster pugs. I have a big fenced area, but the fence is crappy. I can't take dogs that can jump. LOL

I also mow, but way late into November. I have a hay crop sometimes. Not only do I get covered with all that stuff, I have to worry about TICS! ick

IMHO, you're making a wise choice, particularly since I'm BIG into function.

I'd like to see what you end up doing. Pics, OK?