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leebee_gw

Layout advice please!

17 years ago

I stumbled upon this site a few weeks ago and have found it incredibly helpful as I plan my kitchen remodel. The time is drawing near to finalize the plans and really dive in! Here is my kitchen as currently planned:

{{!gwi}}

It is roughly a 10'x17'6" space. The window along the sink wall is 8'x3'. The range must stay there, as that's where the gas is stubbed. I'm not crazy about the limited counter space between the range and refrigerator, but I'd like to recess a full-depth fridge, and that's the only place to put it. (It's bumping into closet space in the entry.) It's next to the garage door now--big, bulky, and in the way!

I'm married, with 3 sons (4, 10, 12). I do most of the cooking, my husband a lot of the cleanup, and the kids mill around the kitchen. We like the idea of seating around the island, but for eating space, it would just be for breakfast and snacks.

I'm planning on buying a range with a double oven below it (like the Electrolux). I'd like some shelves along wall A for cookbooks. Initially, I had planned a wall oven and microwave along wall A as well, but now I'm not sure. There's only 3 feet of clearance to the island, and I'm afraid it will box things in too much. I do bake a lot, but with the oven and a half on the Electrolux, maybe another wall oven would be overkill?

Anything you see that could improve the layout? Thanks for your help!

Comments (22)

  • 17 years ago

    For the most part, I think it looks pretty good.

    Would the fridge work over by the pantry in the jog by the stairs? The downside is that it'd be across a busy aisle, but with a prep sink, I might think the counterspace by the range could be worth it. That said, though, it's not like the range is short on counterspace to the left and without any on the right...You actually have plenty to make working there comfortable, I think.

    The one thing I see is that you shouldn't plan seating on the end of the island with only a 3 ft aisle.

  • 17 years ago

    Have you though about possibly pushing the stove over a little bit towards the corner to get the person working in front of it out of the traffic flow from the sinks to the fridge? Either that or shorten the island a tad to make more space right there.

  • 17 years ago

    looks good but agree with Rhome that 3' is not enough between island and Wall A.

    What is going on Wall A... perhaps you can use shallow depth cabinetry there to pick up some space... or make island a little narrower or both.

    You should allow between 44-48" of space as an aisle when seating is involved.

  • 17 years ago

    If you are only using the island for breakfast and snacks, does that mean you eat all your meals in the dining room?

    If that's the case, then I'm thinking that getting clean dishes/food/dirty dishes back and forth looks a bit time-consuming and will involve a lot of walking, even if the dishes are stored near the dining room, you still need to get back and forth from the sink/dishwasher.

    jayne

  • 17 years ago

    First, I've known people to bump into their garage to recess fridges. if you have to do it to the other wall, would it be that hard to do it to the garage wall because obviously it would be better to have the appliances seperated a bit more. Also that big cabinet by the stairs, I would get rid of and put a shallow hutch like piece there, that spans that entire wall, to be used for serving, or a bar or even bookshelves if you need them. Just my opinion

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks for all the comments!

    Rhome: I did think about using that space for the fridge, but that only leaves 45" for stair landing before you hit the new wall. Will that seem too boxed in?

    Madeyna: I see what you mean about the island corner causing trouble. I don't want the stove to seem pushed too far into the corner, either, though. I'll have to think about that.

    mamadadapaige: On Wall A, I'd like to keep open the option of a wall oven, even if I don't put it in now, which nixes the shallower cabinet option. It sounds like I need to rethink the island dimensions.

    Jayne: Yes, it is a bit of a hike from the dining room to the kitchen. That's the set up we've got now, but with no island seating, so we're used to it. But I'm with you, it's not ideal!

    Pence: Our garage space is pretty tight, so I'm not sure we could swing it, but that is something to think about. I love your idea about making that cavernous dining room cabinet shallower and longer.

    The current island is over 5' from wall B, which is way too much distance. It seems I've overcorrected the problem, though, and the island may be too snug, especially along Wall A. I could make it 4 x 6 1/2. What's the best way to maximize the island seating here?

  • 17 years ago

    If you make it 4X6 1/2 you can fit 3 people comfortably along the long side. One other thing to consider. Are you planning a single door frig, or a SXS or french door? A single door full size frig could be 30-36" wide and the door swing will be that wide as well. It could be difficult for someone to pass by the frig when it is open. Just something to think about.

  • 17 years ago

    You have a somewhat similar physical layout to mine, the doors/entries/basement on the right side are all the same.
    Prior homeowner had refrigerator next to range with a small space in between. It was very efficient for cooking and getting stuff from the refrigerator but I always felt squashed because I did all my prep in the space between the sink and the range.

    I now have a double oven roughly where your planned refrigerator is and a cooktop with pot drawers where your range is drawn. I love it this way and am enjoying much more counter space. There is a centered kitchen table but no island. I have 2 doorways on the left side, one roughly where your powder room is and another at the upper left so it's a kind of broken "U" and I was easily able to put the refrigerator on the left side.

    I took extra care not to block basement stairway clearance for furniture (ok pinball machines) because we have times when we have needed to get stuff down the stairs. If any bulky tv/furniture needs to go up or down, keep that in mind.

    If you are definite about going with the deep refrigerator and can't bump into a room, you can also plan a deeper counter and possibly cabinets alongside the refrigerator.

    It's possible that you have a lot of options for that pantry space and possibly that built in cabinet near the dining room. The pantry looks very large and seems to be in a very strategic location. It looks like all the action will be on the right side of your kitchen.

    jayne

  • 17 years ago

    What are the dimensions of the Powder Room & Pantry...actually, what are the dimensions of all the little walls on that side?

    Can the Pantry be modified or moved? Can the Powder Room be reconfigured?

    I have a couple of ideas, but until I know the dimensions of the various walls & spaces in that area and what can be changed, I don't know if they'll work.

  • 17 years ago

    I thought maybe the fridge could take a few inches of the pantry if necessary to help it fit in that spot across from the stairs.

  • 17 years ago

    I did think about using that space for the fridge, but that only leaves 45" for stair landing before you hit the new wall. Will that seem too boxed in?

    Echoing what Jaynesb said, remember that you need to preserve space in front of the basement steps for moving stuff up & down. That is, unless you have another entrance to the basement.

    Where you have the 'built-in cabinet' over by the study--a back to back built in bookcase would work nicely there with one side opening into the study and the other side (for cookbooks) facing toward the kitchen.

    Any reason not to move the range to Wall A? I fear that with the range so close to the refrigerator, snackers & grazers are going to get underfoot. That, and putting them so close together makes it very difficult for helpers to be of much use in the kitchen.

  • 17 years ago

    I just re-read and noted that you said the range has to stay where it is because the gas is stubbed there.

    Why not just extend the gas line? If you're tearing out the kitchen, the gas line can run in the toe kick area or along Wall B to get over to Wall C. If you're using cabs on leg levelers, it won't complicate install in the least. A bit more trouble, but not a lot, with integral kicks. (Possibly, you might need to increase the size of the gas pipe depending on the requirement of your stove & the length of the pipe run.)

  • 17 years ago

    OK...based on my guesses for dimensions.


    Here are a couple of ideas. They keep the basic layout of a "U" w/an island. I'm guessing the space in front of the stairs is 57" or so in these layouts.

    The Refrigerator has a full-depth cabinet above with 3/4" finished end panels on each side...this gives it a "built-in" look. (I forgot to put the upper cab & end panels in Layout #1...they would be the same in #1 as in #2.)

    I put a 30" oven + MW in just to show you how they might look lined up with the range on the other side of the kitchen. They could also be centered on the wall or could even be at the end of the cabinet run as an "anchor".

    With the exception of the "specialty" cabinets, cabinet sizes are very rough estimates and only show you how much space there is, not specific cabinet configurations.

    Layout #1:

    Layout #2:

  • 17 years ago

    I hope Buehl doesn't mind some tweaking of one of her plans. Although I love the thoughts about the redo of the pantry wall, and I could do a walk across the aisle to the fridge, I wouldn't want to go around seating and to the opposite end so that the island becomes a barrier. Seating in any work aisle would be a deal-breaker for me, so I vote for Malhgold's idea for the 6 1/2 ft island with seating on the hall side. I wouldn't split work counter either, so moved the oven to the end of the run. I'm not sure about that location for the microwave, since I like it near the fridge and a sink...But it's down the list on priorities.

    You could have a beverage or snack area by the fridge, or if you don't need or want more counter, it could be a wonderful full wall of cabinetry.

  • 17 years ago

    I like Buehl's second but with Rhome's island.

    But I'd REALLY like to see ovens and fridge switched and fridge recesssed into garage space.

    Also, everything coming in through the garage door will be dropped on that counter. Might as well plan for it. Maybe message center/oven stack/oven landing.

    Keep tweaking.. You are close.

  • 17 years ago

    If the powder room can be moved around, I would rather see it with better access, like put the door opening at the top of the basement steps. Then the pantry can be swapped with the msg/fridge/powder room in Beuhl's layout #2. I also like rhomes island, more storage and work area.

  • 17 years ago

    Don't mean to rain on the parade but I don't think any of the plans above are leaving enough room for moving stuff up & down the basement stairs. Think sofas, pool tables, foosball machines, bookcases... IMO, you need at least 5' of clear space in front of those steps.

  • 17 years ago

    OK...take 3" off the pantry & run of cabinets w/the refrigerator...right now there are 57" in front of the stairs...3" more would make 60" (5').

  • 17 years ago

    With my plan the wall can be easily moved over, shortening the pantry and counter) to give more space at the stairs, and in Buehl's the U-shaped pantry shelves can become L-shaped (which I actually prefer to limit the deep corners) to gain a foot also.

    We had 3 ft hallway in front of our basement stairs in our last house...not optimum, obviously, but we did manage. Our stairs in the new house land on a 44" hallway and we got bedroom furniture up to the 4 bedrooms. I certainly wouldn't recommend 3 ft as clearance, but I don't think 5 ft is necessarily required...so it all depends on where you want to use the space, since it's possible to have 5 ft if you're willing to trade pantry space. Also, is this the only entrance to the basement for moving large stuff in and out?

  • 17 years ago

    Clear space at a stair landing is sometimes controlled by building code to a set minimum. OP should find out if the remodel needed to conform.

    Personally, I'd like to have 3 entire feet in front of my basement stairs or a time machine to go back to 1924 and ask them what they were drinking when they planned the 28" in front of that door...

  • 17 years ago

    Yikes! Our house has 5 levels and the least am't of clear or clearable space in front of any staircase is a little over 11'. Don't need that much but it sure is nice to have.

  • 17 years ago

    We have 4' in front of our basement stairs and so far it's been fine. YMMV, of course!