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pearl_manwani

Urgent - please help with kitchen layout

16 years ago

I am having trouble with the kitchen layout. Below is what my architect has.

{{!gwi}}

Dimensions:

Refrigerator = 36" width, counter-depth

Dishwasher = 24"

Cooktop = 36"

Wall oven = 30"

The wall oven is a column with a microwave, appliance storage, and oven. The reason the kitchen ends till the window on the extreme right is that the window is very low so I cannot continue the countertop across the window. Hence the separation between kitchen and breakfast area. Here are my priorities: I want to have good space around the cooktop and I want an appliance section where I can use the appliances there instead of removing them from inside the cabinet. I am also trying to get some more space to the left of the sink. The kitchen is open and looks into the living room.

Here is my entire apartment plan if it helps:

{{!gwi}}/>

Comments (14)

  • 16 years ago

    Not sure your right door on the fridge can open, and if so, not even 90 degrees? Plus, anyone needing a snack or beverage must go through the whole kitchen work area. If you have a family or entertain, that could be aggravating.

    What is the family size and size of the kitchen 'work crew?' Is this a one-person kitchen or do you want to accommodate multiple workers?

    You have all the working elements crowed onto one side of the kitchen and all the open workspace on the other. Are you willing to move something to the open side?

  • 16 years ago

    Have you considered how you'll get into your fridge if someone's standing at the sink?

  • 16 years ago

    The fridge is drawn as full counterdepth so it could go in a number of other locations. I would move it from its current location.

    If this is Manhattan, I am assuming the rangehood will not vent externally, so you are not tied to that exact location for venting.

    I would consider foregoing a separate wall oven in a kitchen this small. They were the common original feature that almost everyone in my complex (of similar sized or smaller kitchens) has replaced with a conventional range.

    Doing so in my kitchen allowed for a stack W/D --doing so in your kitchen would allow for more counterspace. Yes, we bend over and no longer have the convenience of a waist high oven. But I think you would benefit from more counterspace.

  • 16 years ago

    Oxfordmom:
    The obvious answer(to someone who has a small urban kitchen) is "move a minute, I need to get in there" :)

    Do you really have to move the fridge to get to the electrical panel? I could see this being a real problem, if not a code violation.

    Have you considered floating countertop across the front of the long window in the bkfast area (without cabinets right in front of the window itself but to either side)--again not the ideal option, but you have pretty narrow parameters.

  • 16 years ago

    Rhome410, The fridge will open to the left opposite the sink, so it will open more than 90 degrees. Right now we are just two but plan to have one kid in the near future. I don't expect more than two people cooking at a time in the kitchen. I tried all options but this seems to be the best location for the fridge. If I put the fridge in the location of the wall oven, it takes 36" of space instead of 30" and reduces counter space further. I don't mind moving stuff to the open side.

    Oxfordmon, no I did not consider that. I am trying to work out a solution where I leave some space to the left of the sink.

    Palimpsest, yes this is a Manhattan kitchen (good eye!). I am doing a cooktop so the wall oven is the only single oven. I am considering having this oven below the cooktop. I don't need to move the fridge to get to the electrical panel. I need to have access to the panel, and we are calling the pantry an electrical closet to comply with codes. Once the inspection is done we will use it as a pantry. I have not considered a floating countertop. I think I will remove the wall oven column and use that as a countertop.

    The area from the column adjacent to the electrical closet to the breakfast area is open to the living room. I have a cool granite slab which will be countertop and backsplash, so removing the wall oven will make the space more open and aesthetically pleasing. I will post another picture of my ideas to move things around, and welcome suggestions!

  • 16 years ago

    Here is my idea. Suggestions? Ideas?

    {{!gwi}}

  • 16 years ago

    Can you make the island between kitchen and dining room do more work? For example, put the sink there? Or, second-choice, the cooktop? This would make the counter by the exterior wall less cramped, and by separating workzones you could reduce conflicts.

    Can you swap the refrigerator and the wall oven? Having the refrigerator all the way at the end of a narrow cul-de-sac seems like a very inconvenient location.

    Right now, I'm not clear how you access your pantry/electrical closet. It looks like a small corner door through which you'd grope blindly for stuff. If you used a range instead of separate cooktop and wall oven, the entire area where the wall oven currently sits could be a big and accessible pantry, more counter, appliance garage, etc. Are you really set on the separates?

  • 16 years ago

  • 16 years ago

    The other thought I had was, if the island was really an island (right now it is more of a peninsula, or Long Island) then you could get into the kitchen at both ends. Which opens things up a bit. Currently that island/peninsula does not need to be 9 feet long, it doesn't contain any appliance or comprise any work zone (overflow prep, maybe), it could be 6 feet long instead.

  • 16 years ago

    Johnliu, thanks for the ideas. I like the seamless transition on the left, but the load bearing wall prevents me from having a continuous countertop. Moving the sink to island will require refiling of plan due to plumbing changes which I want to avoid. Initially I had the island like your picture with a raised area, but the granite I have chosen is flashy and will look best with no raised part. So many limitations! I would refile plans but I am no longer working with my incompetent architect who filed the plans. Any refiling requires starting from scratch with someone new or using her, but she will not do it. So I have to work with these limitations.

  • 16 years ago

    But you could trade the sink and cooktop in john's version if you can't vent anyway. There are lots of beautiful not venting hoods out there like the murano ones.

  • 16 years ago

    Can you put the sink under the window in John's version, move the range over towards the refrigerator a smidge with a nice non venting hood, leave the refrigerator where it is in the plan and also the left wall the same as John's drawing, and put the microwave inside the island with a completely flat top island?

  • 16 years ago

    John, I chuckled when I saw your drawing. Except I had upper cabinets along the stove run instead of windows, you drew what our OLD kitchen was like almost exactly! I won't bore the OP with the problems of that layout other than to say with two people in there trying to cook and clean and do anything resembling a large meal was chaotic!!!

    NewYorking... First thing I thought of when I saw your original drawing was to use those narrow areas for cutting boards and cookie sheets! Glad to see that you thought of that as well.

    I understand your reluctance to continue working with your less than competent architect or wanting to refile paperwork. I want to encourage you to step back and look at the end result of years of cooking and cleaning in a kitchen that is less than ideal versus spending the time now to get things right. We do get tired of the design stage hassles. But if you are wanting to make your lives easier in the long run and keep resale value up, take the time now to make things be as easy to use as can possibly happen in your space. Think of it as a present to yourself!

    If you do pursue John's drawing, I would recommend moving the sink closer to the breakfast room end of the island. That way you would pull the items out of the frig, pivot to your prep area, rinse and start prepping on that corner before pivoting to your cooking area. I lived with that kitchen design for 12 years and it is more of a one person kitchen than two person design. Especially if you are opening the oven and dishwasher at the same which happened to us every Christmas Day as we were trying to clear the counters of all the dishes so we would have a place to carve the turkey while we were finishing preparing the rest of the meal!

  • 16 years ago

    I am thinking of this layout for the kitchen.

    KITCHEN LAYOUT

    {{!gwi}}

    MAIN COUNTER LAYOUT
    {{!gwi}}

    ISLAND LAYOUT

    {{!gwi}}

    Regarding the microwave placement, I can either have it over the dishwasher inside a cabinet or get a MW drawer and have it in the island below the appliance cabinet. What do you think? I cannot move the gas riser in the island since it serves the entire building - I live in a condo.