Software
Houzz Logo Print
ayerg73_gw

What would you do? Countertop damage...

14 years ago

Ok, this is a cross-post from the appliance forum. The link for the original post is below... But I think my problem is not an appliance problem and I want to know if I'm a little bit crazy for being upset.

What would you all do...?

We bought a Bosch 800 series dishwasher after our current one died. It was installed in October (our kitchen remodel is currently scheduled for April 2012, so it was our first purchase...)

A few weeks later I noticed that the wood was beginning to swell a little from our formica countertops. I posted on the appliance forum and asked if this was normal. The reply I got told me that it was not a big deal and that since I would have stone soon that it wasn't a problem.

Now it's gotten so bad that my counter above the dishwasher is lumpy and I can't even keep the dishwasher door shut to finish an entire cycle.

I called the appliance store and a repairman is coming tomorrow. They insisted that it couldn't be the Bosch and were very defensive about the whole situation.

I updated my post on the appliance forum and I got a reply that this is how Bosch 800 series dishwashers are...steam rises up and that I could just shave down the swollen wood on my counter until I replace it.

Does this seem right to you?

Is it unrealistic for me to expect the appliance store and/or Bosch to fix my countertops? I have a hard time thinking I'm the only person without stone that's ever had one. Shouldn't I have been warned when I purchased it that it would cause damage?

Any advice would be a great help because I'm quite frustrated and may not exactly be thinking straight! ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous Appliance Forum post

Comments (9)

  • 14 years ago

    Something that is usually skipped in laminate top production is the use of a seal at the dishwasher location. The top should have been laminated on the bottom in this area to prevent the swelling and damage from the dishwasher. A backer or laminate back layer is normally used because its thin and cant be seen well.

    You problem is not unusual, this would help. The above poster makes it seem like Bosch may have a problem, but I would not know about that.

  • 14 years ago

    [not about Bosch]
    Our old countertops had begun to disintegrate at front lower side over the door of the dishwasher. When we made the niche for the new one, we ordered a dense foam product called E-Dead which is used to dampen sound in cars. We chose the version with shiny metal skin on one side, which will repel moisture. It has adhesive on the other side. We stuck it to top and 3 sides of the niche. Then we painted painted painted the protruding underside of our new laminate countertop with coats of urethane.

    People comment on how quiet our dishwasher is.

    After about a year and a half of use, the underside of the countertop looks to be intact. But next time the urethane brush comes out I think I'll put a couple more coats on it!

  • 14 years ago

    "I want to know if I'm a little bit crazy for being upset."

    Yes, you are. :)

    Laminate countertops get damaged from water all the time around the sink and DW area. It's normal part of having laminate countertops and it's why they get replaced a lot more often than stone ones. In an ideal world, the original fabricator would have installed a vapor barrier or water proofer over the DW and around the sink area underside. He didn't. You know better for next time. In all likelihood, the counter was already partially damaged from the previous DW or other water damage and you just didn't know it or notice it because you would have had to have gotten on your back with your head stuck into the DW cavity to see it. You don't have the degree of damage as quickly as you're talking about unless there was some already on board.

    You say you're getting granite. Put that on the fast track.

  • 14 years ago

    Warranties almost always exclude consequential damages (something else being damaged because the product malfunctions). Also, you didn't ask for service when you first noticed there was a problem and it might not have needed a repair because the swelling might have gone down when the problem was resolve; you waited until the damage had gotten worse.

    On Bosch dishwashers, I have mixed feelings at the moment. Our Bosch dishwasher stopped with a warning code that indicated a leak had been detected. It happened after the initial warranty expired but it was still covered by a parts warranty.

    On the positive side:
    When the first repair didn't work, we didn't have to pay labor for the subsequent visits.
    When multiple repairs didn't fix the problem, Bosch gave us a replacement dishwasher. Our model was no longer available and the one they gave us is slightly better.
    The old dishwasher was quiet and the new one is even quieter - I only notice it running when I stand near and listen for it.
    The need for repair may have been partly because we should have been using its water softener and weren't so some things got clogged with hard water deposit (we never had a problem with that with our older less fancy dishwasher).
    The dishwasher cleans very well and we find that the trays including the flatware tray make it very easy to load.

    On the negative side:
    Between waits for parts on multiple repair attempts and then several weeks wait to get the replacement approved, it was well over a month between the initial failure and installation of the replacement. Fortunately the service technician was able to tighten things enough to allow the old dishwasher to work on the short cycle while we waited.
    The low salt warning keeps coming on on the new dishwasher even though salt is loaded - the repairman is scheduled to come out again today.

  • 14 years ago

    We are putting in our first dishwasher (under a lam counter) and I'm glad I saw this thread!
    I googled the subject and found this site.
    Read item number 7 and check illustration.
    It indicates the buildup at the lip of the counter needs to be sealed for a dishwasher!
    Who knew? I didn't - and I've grown up with lam counters!
    :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: lam counter link

  • 14 years ago

    Thanks for the input guys. The repairman that came out was pretty awesome. He said that the only time a Bosch would do this kind of damage is if there's an issue...and there was.

    The original installer sort of jammed the dishwasher in and there just wasn't the space for it. There is a small piece of wood running all along the right side of the dishwasher squaring the cabinets to the counter in that spot. It was apparently pushing the dishwasher just enough to the left at the top to create enough torque on the door to keep it from shutting correctly.

    So, basically I have to get a contractor out here before the new trim kit my repairman ordered gets in and he needs to uninstall the DW, remove that piece of trim running all the way to the back, cut the swollen wood from the bottom of the counter and possibly remove some shoddily installed tiles under the dishwasher to allow it to sit better so that it can then be put back in and run til April.

    The repairman suggested putting a couple of coats of paint under the countertop to repel moisture from this point forward. He also suggested I ask my homeowners insurance to cover the contractor fees...not sure if I'll bother. I guess it will depend on the costs...

  • 14 years ago

    '"I want to know if I'm a little bit crazy for being upset."

    Yes, you are. :) '

    I don't think so!!!!

    If this is a problem with that dw and laminate, they should make it known when you go to purchase it. Then you can decide if you want to do the extras needed OR buy a different brand.

    I haven't read that happening here much - would be interesting to know if that happens with other brands and a laminate counter top.

    I had a dw w/laminate counter for 14 yrs and nothing even close to that ever happened. Most everyone i knew back then had a dw AND laminate counters AND no problem like that.

  • 14 years ago

    Most laminate counters will have moisture damage underneath the lip next to the sink and DW. As was stated, you may not notice it unless you get upside down, but it's there. It may not be as extensive as the OP's, but unless your fabricator coated the underside of the particle board or you installed a moisture barrier, moisture damage to laminate is inevitable because it is on a particle board substrate. All DW's emit steam if you open them before they cool off. Each time you do that, you will be causing subtle damage to the countertop above the DW. Since not everyone uses their DW similarly, the damage can happen on a different timeline for everyone, depending on how it's used.

    In other words, even though the OP had a faulty install, that faulty install simulated years of accelerated usage to the counter in dealing with steam. It's one of the reasons that places like Ikea that sell countertop blanks recommend installing the Fixa diffusion barrier on the underside of any of their counters, whether laminate or wood. Any porous counter is subject to moisture damage in that area from normal usage.