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kellienoelle

How do you make decisions?

14 years ago

Wow, this kitchen remodeling sure is fun right? I think I am decisive, I think I'm not wishy washy, I think I am reasonable. I think I may be wrong about all of those things. Apparently, I just like everything and anything and can see the good and bad in EVERY OPTION. So, first decision is cabinets. Now I am not to the part yet where I have to make a final choice on stains, on crown molding, on whether to put end pieces on (my head will probably explode at that point). I am just trying to decide on who I want to get them from and what type. Do I pay the extra and forgo some of the extras to do custom cabinetry and have it be exactly as I want it? Do I stick with a standard "box" and have to make some pretty big sacrifices on what I wanted to save money.

To be more specific. I got a quote from Merrilat for their slightly upgraded middle range line of cabinets. I like them, they seem to be OK quality, made of maple with some color options that I like. Problem is, if there is one thing that I thought that I wanted in my kitchen it was cabinets extending to the ceiling. They are 9 foot ceilings, so apparently that means stacked cabinets, which is fine. Merrilat cannot configure this with the options available in that line. The cabinet guy is going to price out the top of the line range so I can get the stacked cabinets, but says it will easily be 25-30% more. This is also through a friend of my brother is law, and wouldn't include the cost of installation, so we would have to manage that all on our own. Pluses are cost, warranty, and a company that has been in business for many years so I am assuming has pretty good QC so hopefully you know what you are going to get. I also got a quote from a custom guy to have the stacked cabinets that I wanted so desperately. No really fancy bells and whistles, made of birch, I can stain or finish however I want, configure however I want. Cost is easily twice as much, but includes installation. We are also getting a bid from a GC to include the complete work with "his people" including another custom cabinetry guy, and I have a friend whose husband is a GC who offered to do the same, but not until march when his schedule frees up (meaning probably June in the construction world).

How do you compare and decide, it seems like choosing between apple pie and chocolate cake. Also complicating matters is my husband doesn't understand my obsession with having the cabinets to the ceiling. He says it is a waste of money since we are essentially only doing it for aesthetics. I am a form over function girl usually, and he is kind of right, we sure as he** don't really need the extra storage. But that is just what I want. I know I will love what I do even if I don't get this option, but deep down I'll be disappointed and wonder how much better it would have looked with stacked cabinets. He's easy going, and I will be able to talk him into it, but deep down, I do know that he is right and we are supposed to be making these big financial decisions together (we saved and are paying outright so it isn't like we have the option of just getting a bigger loan). For the record, he also likes chocolate cake while I like apple pie.

So, long story short, how did you guys make these big decisions? Did you spreadsheet the pros and cons? Did you have one person making the primary decisions or did you have arm wrestling matches to see whose choice holds up? Are there any "magic questions" to ask so you know that you are getting the best deal for the right product? In an earlier thread, I jokingly asked if there was a step by step guide to this. Seriously, is there a step by step guide to this? And if you have some free time, help me justify this cabinet to the ceiling thing.

Comments (18)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Well, first thing first. Do you drink wine? If so, you need to stock up. And make sure your corkscrew is available if you don't plan ahead and buy screw caps.

    I too am making the same decisions, same ceiling height. I also want them up to the ceiling. I don't want regrets. Too many people say they regret their decision not to go all the way up.

    We are working with a custom guy. Only because that is what our builder wants. With custom, you can get a cabinet that is one box, maybe 2 doors if you like. The one cabinet/box route is cheaper than 2 stacked cabinets I have been told.

    You need to look over finished kitchens. I love to look at Houzz.com I can just browse forever, clicking and saving to my ideabook. Then I go back to my ideabook and look at the kitchens that I marked. I try to find what common thread runs between them that makes me like them.

    I'd like to recommend a book to you. It is called Kelly's Kitchen Sync, by Kelly Morisseau. I won a copy of the book in a giveaway on her blog. It really is like a step by step guide that you are asking about.

    Here is a link to her blog, you can get all sorts of info from her on there.

    And of course, there is GW. You know that this group of very talented people will hold your hand all the way to the finish line.

    Best of luck,
    Bee

    Here is a link that might be useful: Kelly's kitchen sync blog

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    do some stacked in a visual area with impact and change gears in some other area , reducing cost, and you'll be close to what you seek. Is this the only area where you are in conflict? Doesn't sound that difficult...consider yourself lucky.Many more serious problems can arise in kitchen renovation.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    No advice really, just commiseration. I am right there with ya, sister. My husband and I did put together a spreadsheet last week, which helped us narrow the choices down to two companies. But, now I am stuck. Both are custom cabinetry companies, both the same, paint grade maple, dovetail, soft close boxes etc. Both offer the same painting process (catalyzed, off site). One costs 6K more than the other, but offers a better warranty and has the references of many here on gardenweb. The less expensive one has a few good references too, but it makes me nervous that he only gives a 12 month warranty (actually, I got him to extend it to 24 months)on the paint peeling or chipping.
    If this was our forever house, it would be a no brainer...I would definitely fork over the extra $$, but do I really want to pay an extra 6K for cabinets alone when we may only be here 3-5 years?
    Decisions, decisions... Good Luck!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Cabinets are the biggest expense so folks usually tackle those first. I think there should be a good balance.

    It is a given that you will find cabinets you like (there are so many) and decide how to arrange them. So, if you can, set that issue aside for just a moment and try to work it from a different angle.
    Do you have an idea of the general kitchen color you like best? If not, do you have a collection of clips from magazines or online? Also, is what you think you want consistent with the adjacent rooms in the house? Do you want it to be consistent? Different? Is other major construction involved?

    Have you looked at and priced and read reviews for:

    appliances - which fuels? pro or residential? built in or not?
    sinks - how many? special feature or standard?
    flooring - material?
    counters - stone, wood, metal?
    backsplash - tile/stone/glass?
    special features that would personalize the kitchen for you? any?

    I view any reno as a learning curve. The diabolical thing is that they can take unexpected turns. So what you sometimes think is important at the beginning often doesn't end up that way -- though sometimes it does.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If this is a house you plan to be in for a long time and you're only doing this once, get what you want, especially cabinet wise, since they aren't easily changed down the road and way too expensive to do it again if you "settled.". If these come in way over your budget, maybe get cheaper appliances which are easily replaced one at a time when you have the $. You could probably even get buy with laminate counters if you had to wait for granite or quartz, but DO get the cabinets of your dreams

    All that being said, I hate to rain on your parade but I would NOT get Merillat. These are generally considered builder grade and they throw them together in ten days...at least the low and middle lines, and I think you would be overpaying for their top line and can do better. I think some better brands out there are omega/dynasty, Brookhaven, holiday, medallion....there are quite a few that would be better quality for about the same $ as Merillat. Other GW ers can chime in here with some more brands. It's a daunting task and loads of info to wade through.....good luck....we all feel your pain!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We just finished building our home and my brain was completely fried by the end of it (from all the decisions)! The last couple of months were pretty intense. I made a bunch of changes at the last minute. It was not easy, and VERY time consuming, but in the end totally worth it! To answer your question- Look at lots of pictures on-line and in magazines. That will help you determine what really appeals to you. Put in the work. It was a pain to make three different tile/grout sample board, but I am soooo glad I did. I almost made a big mistake picking my tile and grout. Check everything in different lights (day/night). Paint colors are tricky! I would stick to your guns about bringing the cabinets all the way up. If it seems like something that will really be more appealing to you, don't let dh talk you out of it. You will be probably be disappointed if you do. Trust your instincts.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If you are envisioning your cabinets to the ceiling, then that's what you should get. From what you've said, you will always regret it if you don't.

    Mine do not go all the way to my 9' ceilings. Mine are staggered--because that's what I wanted and it was what I pictured. I don't regret that decision. BUT YOU WOULD REGRET IT.

    My most common way to make decisions is by "trying them on". I close my eyes and picture each options and then assess how I feel about each one. (Those of you familiar with the Enneagram, I am definitely a 4) If something feels "right" to me and the other feels "wrong", then that's my decision. If they both feel fine, then money or convenience are the deciding factors.

    For other decisions, I'm very practical and identify what the most important aspect is. For example, when we built the house, I wanted shelves in the shower/tubs--that was essential. Any choice that did not include space for shampoo and such was ruled out immediately--no matter how good it looked. We have a tall kid, so the solution had to involve coverage of the walls up to the ceiling. (Conclusion: custom tile job)

    When I'm really uncertain, I make tables in Word documents. I list all of the combinations together so I realize what the various give and take choices are so that I can select what for each choice is most important to me.

    Most importantly--recognize what IS most important to you. In your case, cabinets to the ceiling are on that list--and that's reason enough to do it.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Slow down Kelly! You are moving too fast.

    First, focus on your layout. If I was to start the process over again (note I haven't started my reno yet - planning for a year!!!) I would hire an independent KD, one who does not sell cabinets. I would work with KD and GW to get the plan perfected. I would discuss the general finish you want for kitchen, i.e. painted maple cabinets with glaze, raised panel door.

    Next, I would pick out my appliances and get the specs from the web sites (type, height, width, panel ready or not, etc.) and also include any appliance you are keeping on this list. Next, I would shop the same plan around to many shops. I would walk in, look at the raised panel doors, ask which is the basic door without an upcharge, consider that and pick a door style, wood type, and stain color and ask them to price the layout. I would provide the appliance list as well. I would do that with many retailers and custom shops. I would note the date you requested the price, I would follow up once to see if they have any questions and note the date you finally recieve the price. To me, this is a big indicator of how the establishment does business. Many retailers took over 4 months to get me a price! 4 months to get a price, how long might it take to replace a defective door or get an extra piece of trim?

    I noted some other red flags in your post:

    "Merrilat... through a friend of my brother in law." Caution, It can be hard doing business with friends and acquaintences. If you are not happy with something, how would that be in the future? Think it through before you proceed with friends.

    Also " a company that has been in business for many years so I am assuming has pretty good QC so hopefully you know what you are going to get." Do not assume. Research it!

    I can stain or finish however I want, configure however I want. Cost is easily twice as much, but includes installation." How are your DIY skills? Painting or staining cabinetry is very time consuming and needs to be done properly. Have you done this before? Research the proper way to paint and stain, whichever you prefer and really assess whether you can do this and be happy with the end result. Having cabinets professionally painted or stained is pricey.

    It would be helpful to make some lists. why are you renovating your kitchen and what do you want to fix (layout, open to another room, etc.)? What are your needs, must haves, wants. This is very hard for me bc I want everything. For you, it seems stacked cabinets are important. Maybe you want light in them. What are you DH must haves?

    And Houzz.com is the best. And the worst as it gives you so many good ($$$$$$) ideas.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Oh my gosh...I'm not alone is my insanity? Misery loves company guys, and I really love your words of wisdom, commiseration, and understanding.

    I have been looking at Houzz obsessively and I do have some ideas of what I want. I have a color scheme....I think, I change my mind from really dark cabinets to white cabinets pretty frequently. Dark will win because that is what my husband wants and I can't make up my mind anyway (I should pose that as a compromise..."well, dear, we can get the dark cabinets that you want as long as I can get the ceiling high cabinets that I want"), the small layout changes that we are making we agree on (yeah!), the color of the walls we already love (painted earlier this year), the floors we aren't going to change, built in appliances aren't in the budget so we will do a freestanding range and fridge. So, honestly, all we have to do is pick cabinets and a countertop (which we also agreed on), easy peasy, right? We have some CAD plans and I do like the way that they look (meaning I like the way that the custom ones look for double the cost). I had a talk with my husband and I think that he is coming around. These will likely be the only cabinets that we will ever put into this house, so when you are looking at such a huge investment, is the price of skimping to worth it? I told him your wise words about regrets, plus we can keep our 20 year old white refrigerator with the broken ice maker for a bit if we need to. I keep calling the backsplash and pendant lights over the island phase 2. I had n't considered doing an inexpensive counter and adding it later if I need to.

    We have two separate cabinet makers coming tomorrow, so you have given me some good ideas of questions to ask. I'll get there. I think part of the problem is that my husband isn't a researcher, he is willing to make these decisions all willy nilly. So pretty much all he knows is the $$$ amount and if he likes the person he talked to. He also thinks that if we need to we can project manage these things even though we each have very busy full time jobs and aren't available to be here during the day while the work is being done. Me, I would rather pay a little extra so I don't have to be the one to oversee things. Plus I told him that if we did that ourselves then we would end up divorced and then we would just have to sell the house.

    Anyway, I am going to pore over more of GW and houzz. I think I know what my decisions are regarding the cabinets, but I did just want a little bit of reassurance so I sure do appreciate it. When I get "final" plans, I will post them because you guys sure do have some great ideas.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Find inspiration pics as everyone has mentioned and refer back to them often. When I get confused I go back to my inspiration pics (I have lots of ideabooks on houzz) to remind me of my vision.

    Consider the cost of everything - extras, countertops, floors, appliances, etc. Then look at all of the options - see which are absolute necessities and see which ones you can live without. You don't want to walk into your finished kitchen each time and say, "I wish I...." So figure out the things that you REALLY want/need.

    Check out this thread on how to cut down on cabinet costs. I posted some comments there on how I saved $ (see link at bottom of post).

    Alder is relatively less expensive and takes stain well. That is what we have, and we went all the way up to the soffit with our cabinets.

    Here is another good thread: Mistakes others can learn from:
    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1109065519196.html

    HTH! Try to enjoy the whole process and have fun with it! Good luck!

    Here is a link that might be useful: GW thread on cutting cabinet costs

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi, were you planning on doing the top boxes on every cabinet? My thought is that maybe in a couple of spots, if it looked right, you could do an open alcove with a pretty curve to it that would go to the ceiling. Maybe save a little $$ on doors that way.
    I am a huge fan of the stacked cabinets myself and think it's a great look. There's a definite "wow" factor. We are in the early stages of planning our 2nd kitchen reno. and this time we have the 9 ft ceilings so we're going for it!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here's another GW Thread "regrets"

    Here is a link that might be useful: GW Regrets thread

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Be sure to look into custom cabinets through a small shop. The investment in time can be worthwhile. We talked to two small shops and one beat the other in price and durability hands-down but they didn't offer as many options. Gotta decide on what is important to you.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This won't help you with all your decisions...but for me, I try to have a theme and stick with it. Will this finish or this style, really work with the theme/vision, I have in my head? Does the layout not only function, support the way I cook/bake and use all the space effectively...but does it work with my theme, too? Not everyone might agree, but I think it makes it easier to make choices all the way through, if you know what you want, when you start. Hope that helps :)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    No, you are NOT alone! I also have trouble making decisions. Blues? Favorite color. Earth tones? Love it. Burnt orange? Cozy. Granite, quartz, soapstone...arrgghh! I've been clipping kitchen pix and gathering info for years. Unfortunately, that just added to the confusion. When the initial estimate for my dream kitchen made me ill, I knew I needed to get real. Setting a limit really helped me focus. I know I'll probably go over in the end, but it will be for items I REALLY want.

    In addition to the basics (color, style, etc.), you might want to organize your thoughts/info into 3 groups:
    What you NEED
    What you WANT
    and OMG, what do I have to do to get this!

    By the way, our 36-year-old Merrilats are still in good shape, but newer ones may not be made as well. I'm just finally ready for a whole new kitchen plan, so we will donate the old cabinets (and appliances) to Habitat for Humanity.

    GW has been unbeatable for helping me organize my thoughts and cut through the clutter of info on the web. I look forward to getting started this winter!

    Good luck with your project!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    As you already know you are not alone! Patience is essential! We started planning in may/June.....meeting with contractors, KDs ect....I thought (in my dreams) that we could be demoing by October......ha! We didn't even settle on a KD, GC, or layout until October! Demo hasn't started yet! I thought I could be long done......how wrong I was!

    This is a slow painful process! I am just now starting to relax and enjoy it! All major decisions have been made, demo starts right after Chrismas. I am sure the stress level will climb again, but for the

    At few weeks I am very calm!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi KellieNoelle,
    I have 9' ceilings too. I had stacked cabinets in the last house. But I only had a few uppers so the expense wasn't so bad. BUT, I literally put nothing in the cabinets - they were empty!!

    Now I am trying to figure out if I want to do this again.

    I saw this picture on houzz and thought this architect did a really good job of making this soffit look good (obviously there was considerable expense, look at the crown moldings, etc. - maybe spending money on the cabinets you want is better than a soffit), anyway, just figured I would post this since it isn't everyday that you see a good looking soffit

    Here is a link that might be useful: [nice soffit treatment[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/crisp-architects-traditional-kitchen-new-york-phvw-vp~353106)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Interesting to hear your perspective, especially that you don't know that you would do it again. I have a feeling that, like you, I will put nothing in them. I was planning on getting a couple of glass fronts, so I will have to buy something that does nothing more than look pretty. Since the kitchen is decent sized, it is going to be a pretty good expense for what is essentially nothing more than a design element. I am thinking about doing some upper shelves rather than cabinets in the areas that I don't use much. I have the bids coming hopefully this week (pricing both 42" cabinets, and stacked) so I can see if it is even feasible. I am sure I will have a million more questions at that point once I get some numbers, I don't even know what things are important anymore.

    I appreciate the picture! I even told my husband that if I didn't take the cabinets all the way up, maybe a compromise would be adding some crown, but I hadn't considered a soffit.