Any construction job should have three quotes. The third should take away your feelings. Any quote takes work so don't feel bad about that. This is the nature of the business. It's quite possible in a small town like I live in that the original contractor comes in with a high price because he thinks he has the job wrapped up. Remember his motivation is to make money!

It's difficult to compare quotes with two different pricing methods. Guys who do time and materials tend to take longer and underestimate the costs for materials. His "contract" is only an estimated amount of time, not a guaranteed number. So be careful if the second guy's numbers come in under the first, it could actually end up costing you more. The first guy has all of the right signals. He's consulting the pros he needs to in order to do the job right, and his % is a decent amount without being too high.

Thanks for your replies. It makes me feel less guilty getting this second quote. We might find someone else to give us a third quote now.
Yes, it is difficult to compare two different kinds of quotes. The second gc is planning to get the subs quotes from reliable sources.
Is it permissable for us to suggest to the first gc that we will look after the plumbing since we are already looking after the electrical sub.
Also he is getting 15% of the cabinet and countertop costs but not doing anything at all about installing them. Our designer sent the plans to the cabinet maker and she will certainly have input into types of cabinets etc. The gc won't be involved at all, except to let them know when everything is ready for them to be installed. I think that is not reasonable - he will be getting 15% of 25,000. Could we negotiate that?

You should get 3 quotes, but seriously? You know the first guy and have worked successfully with him before. That's worth a major upcharge right there. Not that you'd say that to him. :) You can certainly ask about bringing in your own plumber. He might not like that though. It can throw off his scheduling, which is a big part of his job.

(wait a sec--25,000? Is that his quote or your guesstimate? It seems a little...well, low...)

" Remember his motivation is to make money!"

moebus:

I agree. And what's the best way to make money? Doing excellent work at fair prices so you get repeat business from the customers you want.

A % of all material costs and sub costs is how a cost plus contract works. The contractor has to be informed about the kitchen design, consulted as to how it will work with the locations of the electrical and plumbing, and plan to alter those if needed to work with the design. He has to coordinate the timing of all of the contractors to be able to have things done in the right order.

If you don't want to pay for all of the contractor's services, then GC the project yourself and deal with all of the headaches yourself. Trying to alter how a standard cost plus construction contract works by removing part of the work or product from it only leads to you putting yourself into the GC's position of responsibility for total job coordination and responsibility.

You're trying to cut costs inappropriately. If you want to reduce the price of the project, reduce it's scope, not nickel and dime a quality tradesperson's industry standard---and completely fair-- method of conducting his business. If it's indeed a small town as you say, then word about how you're trying to treat him will get out and you will have difficulty in getting other trades to come in and work with you.

NEVER underestimate the value of using someone who you've used before and trust to do the job right. That's really really HUGE. Just read all of the horror stories around here!

That trust in a relationship has to be created all over again with someone new, and you have to hope that you've done everything correct in the screening and contract writing process to let that happen. And you have to hope that he really does know his job, and estimated such a large project correctly.

Most contractors price a job by the job, not time and materials. That way, if they get through faster than they estimated, they are on to another job and make more money. In a job with a lot of unknowns, there may be some mini time and materials sections inside a fixed bid price, or even a cost plus, but to do a whole job as time and materials is unwise. They aren't incentivized to complete the job in a timely manner. The more delay happens, and the slower they work (especially through winter when times are leaner) the longer they draw a paycheck.

If you are feeling the number pinch from the scope of the project, talk with the contractor about the wisest approach to maybe split the project so that you can take care of enough of it now to have you not living through a construction zone until the other part happens. People who do construction for a living tend to be pretty smart in figuring out where you can cut things out that won't have to be redone when phase 2 commences. ;)

I appreciate all your points of view. Thank you for your honest replies. It is looking by most of you, that GC 1 is probably the way to go. I am pleased with that.
My husband is the one that is hesitant and feels that another quote is necessary and is keen to try someone new. Since you all think more than 1 quote is a good idea, we will probably proceed with that and hopefully we will find that GC1 is appropriate.
I will be discussing this whole situation with my designer as well, who has been away. She and GC1 work closely together.

There was a recent very long thread here where the OP was dealing with significant charges over the estimate on a time-and-materials contract. Maybe someone remembers the title of that thread? It might be worth a look just to see the kind of headaches that type of arrangement can generate.

I think this is the thread Jellytoast is referring to.

Here is a link that might be useful: contractor overrun

Time and materials can work out, particular if you're not working from a formal set of plans, and are doing things "on the fly" (as we are). We got a budget from our contractor originally, and 2 months later, we are "on budget" -- the only things that have cost more are either those that we changed - floor refinishing, additional electrical work - or those incurred because the city required changes (we need a sprinkler head in every enclosed space, including every closet, and they made us replace every outlet in the apartment with a tamper-proof outlet). When we started, we didn't even know how many closets we'd end up with, so this isn't something the contractor could have estimated originally (when you live in a city apartment, you create storage whereever you can find an inch of space -- for example, we created storage behind the bed, under the closet (which is on a "mezzanine"). The space measures 14'L x 2-1/2'D x 2-1/2'H, and needed to be sprinklered! But it's a fabulous storage space, so it was well worth it!!

That's the one, snookums, thank you!

"Since you all think more than 1 quote is a good ideaâ¦"

Not all of us.

Your husband is thinking of potentially saving money. If the new guy's ship sinks, the savings go down with him. You need to think how foolish and regretful you're going to feel when you had an established successful relationship but continued to flirt and date.

The "three bid rule" is for folks unfortunate enough not to have found their guy. Don't let yours slip away.

"Since you all think more than 1 quote is a good ideaâ¦"

Not all of us.

Your husband is thinking of potentially saving money. If the new guy's ship sinks, the savings go down with him. You need to think how foolish and regretful you're going to feel when you had an established successful relationship but continued to flirt and date.

The "three bid rule" is for folks unfortunate enough not to have found their guy. Don't let yours slip away.

I would get additional quotes. And you will also get to know GC1 better that way.

Why is it that your husband wants more quotes?

A good General Contractor will be in regular contact with a cabinet maker, regardless of who did the design work or who is doing the installation. The electricians will have multiple questions about outlet placement and power for appliance placement, the plumber will need clear direction about placement (if you want a pull out trash under the sink you'll need the plumbing off to one side, a sink with a drain on that side and specific sink depth to make it all work, for example) and if you want good recessed lighting for proper tasks, you will need to know not only where everything is, but the size of the crown molding because it pushes the cans farther out. I've learned that 10% didn't cover my costs of coordinating and managing the cabinets, and had to raise it to 15%. I encourage you to recognize that there are hidden costs in what the GC is doing and give yourself permission to use someone you worked with successfully in the past. Good luck!

We built our whole house as Cost-Plus with a Fixed Fee. Our GC was making $xx,000 on our job. When we upgraded to more expensive items, he didn't make more money because we bought cherry instead of oak. Likewise, he didn't make less when we bought something on our own without going through him. Also, there were no change order fees when we wanted to do something different.

A bit different, because it was new construction, not a remodel. I would think there aren't as many (or any) surprises in new construction as there could be in a remodel, once the walls come out and surprise, you find out you need new electrical wiring, etc.