Looks good to me :) I agree about the 15", but I grew up with a sink right to the wall and only a DW wide on the other side and never had any trouble. You just learn to work small and neat. And I like the distribution next to the range; the 36" by the pantry and fridge gives you landing/prep space, and the other side gives you serving space. The range and sink are offset so there's plenty of room for tushes.

Another reason to go with the deeper cabinets with the fridge is that it's actually easier to work in a galley that's not quite as wide. My optimum is 51"-53". That's an extra half a step with a full 60" :) (Actually anything between 48"-60" is fine. I once had something like 86" in a galley and it was awful!)

I might want to swap the oven and the tall cabinet, so you're not opening the oven door down the wall and right in the doorway, and it's closer to the landing space by having counter next to it.

The 15" to the left of the sink makes me nervous. I really think I'd feel crowded with the fridge that close, especially with a smallish sink. But I have more dishes going on than you do...

Rhome and I think alike! Consider swapping the oven and the tall cabinet to shift the oven away from the doorway a little.

The 15" between the sink and the fridge isn't what you'd pick in an ideal world, but I think it's a good sacrifice for your kitchen.

Thanks y'all!

Swapping the pantry and oven makes a lot of sense. More than you'd think--I can use a smaller oven cabinet if I move it over (from what happens to be its current location) because I won't have to worry about clearing the door molding. Inches matter!

Any chance that the 15" by the sink will make us neater people? Nah, didn't think so. Maybe we can hang a drying rack of some sort on the side of the fridge cabinet...

I have almost the same exact difficult layout in my 47 year old kitchen! Even the pocket doors! And for the last 10 years I have been struggling with the same layout issues. Our kitchen is in the front and faces the street. Mine is 18 x 10.
1. To keep traffic away from the prep/cooking area(laugh sarcastically), I am planning a 6 cu ft undercounter frig for beverages and position that frig to face the eating area. Hopefully, that will keep thirsty bodies away. "Etc." is the area on your diagram. At Abt Electronics in the Chicago area, there's a small u/c frig for about $300, with good reviews. Dimensions of frig w/o freezer are small.
2. You may consider installing a wall of 12 inch or less, if necessary, cabs on the blank wall facing the eating area. Bookshelves, paperwork and cabs can go here. It may mess the symettry of table/chairs and window, but for me it will solve 'lack of space' issues. For me, it would offer much more space, even if you had to reduce the 'etc.' area on the end of the run. To do so in my kitchen, I will have to remove the casing frames of the window, but that's ok because I want a modern kitchen anyway. You could even use a swivel chair at the table and have a mini office, or at least have the function of same.
3. To do all this in our kitchen, we will give up the existing 50+inch round granite table where we eat, do paperwork, puzzles, spread our newspapers. We'll make do with a smaller rectangular table.
HTH. Let's keep in touch. I just do not want to give up the separate dining room. Where else would we dump our stuff!

We have tall cab, 30" drawer, stove, 30" drawer and fridge all in a line. This has worked well for us. The sink is right across from stove as well - so nothing is too far. We settled for a single under cabinet oven as this gives us a good bit of extra counter space.

Have you considered banquette seating? If you put a bench on the garage wall, you may save some space that you can then use for more counter. Plus, you can create storage underneath for little used items.

Good luck

fori,

Are you unhappy with what you are drawing? If so, what do you wish your kitchen could be?

Are both window sills over 36"?

Thanks everyone.

Westsider, the fridge is the only thing we're moving significantly from the current layout, so it's the one piece whose traffic patterns may cause unforeseen problems. I think we'll be OK with it but we may have to check the mini fridges anyway. We can get about 8" on the naked wall before hitting the window (and we'd like to keep the windows where they are for exterior appearances) and we may do something there. The wall is pretty naked looking.

The other option of course is the banquette--we're definitely considering that, Cook1. After the cabinet guy gets started on the main plans, we'll see what he can come up with in the seating department. I'd like to see the kid leave a built in bench where I can trip on it!

Overall I think it's a good plan, Bmore, but I've been looking at it too long. It's a very functional size and layout in its current form and I'll be changing the major bits only slightly (except the fridge which is currently on the range wall, about 3 feet in from the end with no cabinetry past it--people needed less junk in the 50s!). Currently the cooktop is smack against the wall oven cabinet so we are moving the cooking surface down about 4 feet, but I should still be able to throw things into the sink from the stove.

The large window by the table is low--about table height. The table can be tiny. I've been trying to find one of the little 2-person Formica/chrome breakfast tables that the place was probably made for, but that's another project. It only needs to seat 2 comfortably.

We did consider consuming the large front porch for kitchen like many of the neighbors have done, but it seemed excessive when the current space is so close to adequate. It just needs modern cabinetry to hold my junk! This plan just has less counter by the sink. If we are tidy, it will be plenty. People get by with less all the time! The sink needs to look centered under the window (spousal demand) which, combined with my need for SOME space on both sides, is why it's small.

I think this plan has enough storage and counter (except maybe by the sink). I think the appliance layout will work. We don't entertain often and when we do we like to keep people out of the kitchen (or at very least we won't mind yelling MOVEIT!). The current aisle is 60" so it's not a squishy galley. We may reduce that by 6" or so depending on if we decide to pull out the cabinetry to fridge level--we won't gain much storage by doing so on that side but I guess an extra 6x15" by the sink might help.

We're planning on white cabinets. I'm thinking of using glass (not clear! not in MY house!) on the front and sides of the cabinet between the windows, especially if it ends up being 18" deep. Does that seem like a good idea?

None of the doors can/should move?

Absolutely two ovens right? Not even pleading would change your mind?

No stinkin' ref near the table like lots of people would want? Are you deeply adverse to all tall on one wall? (gosh I'm channeling Dr. Seuss) I don't know that it would help.

You have a little more countertop than I do. The thing about the 30" deep counters is that all the little appliances/decorations/breadbaskets, etc are out of your way. We love our 60" aisleway.

Restaurant supply house for the table?

Hi Fori, It's lookin' good. You're sooo right. Kitchen junk does multiply and so much of it is unnecessary, unless one has a giganto kitchen with a separate pantry, dining area, etc., totalling approx 5000 s.f. Our kitchens can be efficient if we keep our stuff lean. No breadmakers for me!!

You're wall is not naked. And I do think it's a great idea for us to consider a bench/banquette on that wall.

In a small kitchen, I'm not a fan of glass cabs. To me, they are best used for displaying pretty items, rather than everyday stuff which, by necessity, is crowded together to maximize space. If one has a large kitchen, great. My house is SOOO cluttered;I want everything hidden.
OT, but in our master br, I had closets built, ceiling high,wall to wall, drawers and some cabinets and dumped our second hand dresser(which evolved into tall mounds of junk, papers, etc.) so there wouldn't be any horizontal surfaces for DH to put stuff. TV also behind doors.
Very often, I simply dream of a bank of vending machines containing food, already prepared!!!

Unless you're left-handed I'd switch the dw to the other side of the sink. Left side dw is standard for righties, plus it gives you 24" between fridge and sink. Remember, that space isn't just for dishes. It's also the landing pad for things you take out of the fridge, and for the pile of groceries you're putting away in the fridge.

If I open the fridge to get butter, eggs, and two veggies, I'd hate to carry each one over to the opposite counter and then go back for the next one.

LauraG

Hmmm. So I'm not done yet?

The doors can't move. They're pretty much in the only place they can be.

As far as the fridge by the table, it'll only be 4 paces further. Everything is still close!

And don't worry Westsider: if I get glass, it will NOT reveal the mess inside! I know better than that. :)

Laura, I can't fit the DW between the sink and fridge because I have agreed with the spouse to keep the sink under the window (which isn't all that clearly marked on the picture). The darn window IS the bane of the remodel. We currently have the DW to the right of the sink, though, and haven't had any problems.

I have tried all tall on one wall (as well as in a box and with a fox). Actually that's what I have now. It's OK. But having that tall stuff near the end (lower right) with the 2 doors makes navigating the corner dangerous if I do 30" deep cabinets. And I do want 30" deep because I can live with a 30" wide fridge IF it's standard depth. If we go counter depth, we need 36" to get enough space.

I dunno. We'll play with it some more...I appreciate all the input!

{{!gwi}}

Thanks Bmore--this is similar to a plan we've played with. Even with a full oven cabinet in the upper left (I know I know. Undercab makes more sense but I really want one at a normal height and it'll hold the microwave too which is hard to find a spot for otherwise.) we do end up with about the same amount of counter space as we have now, and it's good enough. And my oven (I plan to reuse an old one) only needs a 27" cabinet. Three inches isn't much, but it almost brings it to a respectable amount of space by the sink.

I do like having the fridge on the stove wall because bumping out the cabinets on that side gives more usable storage than it would on the sink side. I just need to be sure not to crowd the lower right doorway area.

And I lied. The left door can be moved up a few inches to center it along the wall--currently there is about 31" below it and 36" above it. I don't really WANT to do that--I'm sort of picky about maintaining the floors and door moldings as well as the positioning of doors in other rooms. But it might have to be.

Can you reverse the door (outie vs. innie)?

Ohhhh you know, I didn't even represent those properly in the diagram at all! The one on the left is a pocket door, the one on the bottom opens out (into dining room) and the one on the right opens into the kitchen (from garage).

Does that help?

I was reading the specs on some 30" refs and they seem to be 28-29" in the body. The doors and handles seem to make them 31" deep.

Can you chew back into the wall between the dining room and kitchen an inch? Or can you live with 29" counters and the ref doors just beyond the counters?

The refrigerator doors will have to stick out--I don't think they'd open otherwise because we're talking basic cheap fridge here (can't fit enough food in a fully integrated one!). So we're OK with having doors and handles popping out. A 29-30" counter would actually work well on the range wall--lets me have a better (less fire-resistant) backsplash behind the range. But we should be able to inset the fridge into the wall a few inches if needed. At least I think so!

bump

Bump? I wish! I haven't been able to locate a GC who fills me with anything like confidence and I'm not sure I'm happy with our cabinet guy. I am THIS close to demanding the spouse start demo while I run to Ikea for cabinets. (Spouse is balking.) Grr. I was ready to dump a lot of money but nobody wants it. I'm ready to do it myself. /rant off.

:)

Don't mind me.