I have Niwot and the fruit is not that good. Really it needs to be bred in with better blackcaps. I have seed of niwot x haut. It should be better if I can get it to grow. The primocane fruiting trait is preserved, seeds are directly from the breeder.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Sat, Jan 24, 15 at 2:00

I planted Glencoe last year and should have some berries to review this summer.

How about Darrow blackberry which Woodstock offers?
Northwoodswis

I haven't heard of Ohio Treasure but Darrow has been around for quite a while...it's not new.

I have Fall-bearing raspberries and primocane-fruiting blackberries which are good to have to extend the season. I guess the one caution on them is SWD. That hits my area around Aug 1st and ruins Fall crops unless you spray them.

Anyone heard of Ohio Treasure?

I did hear of it in an old article about many Ohio cultivars. I could not find that article, but did find another. So much for Niwot being the first fall bearing blackcap!

Here is a link that might be useful: Ohio Treasure

This post was edited by Drew51 on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 1:28

A double post deleted! Well I might as well fill it with something! Recently studing blackberry genetics, it appears three different genes can produce thornless plants. All three are in various commercial varities.
The genetics of columbia Star are interesting. Anybody have detailed info on origins of Newberry?
One interesating berry i added this year is a wild yellowcap. All yellow raspberries for sale are sports/mutations from red raspberries. Very curious as to how the yellow cap tastes! I was given about 7 cuttings. I planted them all out late in the year, hope some make it!
Wild to Ontario, which is not far from me, so they should be ok. For a wild it has huge berries! I won't get a chance to taste them till 2016. If all goes well that is.
Here is some detailed info on Columbia Star

Here is a link that might be useful: Columbia Star

This post was edited by Drew51 on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 1:31

Turns out Newberry is from the same program as Columbia Star.

Here is a link that might be useful: Newberry

Looking forward to tasting Newberry as well. I'm also curious about the size of a mature Newberry plant. The Siskiyou blackberry plants grew quite large and now they are tougher to cover up during the winter. Fingers crossed, the winter has so far been on the mild side, especially compared with last year, so hopefully little to no cold damage.

One of the best updates on new berry varieties.

Here is a link that might be useful: New Berry Cultvars

That was good thanks. What i like is my niche of super hardy blackberries is not really being addressed. A chance to upstage these people with a really hardy cultivar. The local wilds here can withstand -14F temps with no damage.
I keep seeing them crossing known cultivars with each other not bringing in new genes from the wild. A mistake if you ask me. Well they are making excellent plants so it's not really a mistake, but a good base for me to experiment.
Also with blueberries Sweetcrisp needs to be bred into NHB, I know I may try to do it down the road.

Seems like crossing a blackberry and a red raspberry might allow the cold hardiness of a raspberry to pass to a blackberry but doesn't seem like that works, given the crosses to date.

I know it seems the hardiness gene is easily eliminated. Plus I think one needs to have the same number of genes. I don't think you can cross them with the genes being different numbers. I'm a little confused about the point, but noticed boyson and others have raspberry haploid or another ploidy genes that are used to cross. I'm really unclear on this?
Chemicals can mutate plants to cause this.
I was thinking also of trying Nelson which seems to be a hardy blackberry. Fedco has it, but I don't need three plants. 1 would be fine. Anybody want to split an order?

This post was edited by Drew51 on Tue, Jan 27, 15 at 0:35

My goal for the first cross-breeding experiment is to cross Loganberry with several other thornless blackberries to try to achieve a hardier and better tasting loganberry-type thornless blackberry. I have about 4 or 5 thornless blackberries that I have in mind to use.

I wonder, does it make a difference which direction you make the cross... for example, I'd like to take the pollen from my Loganberry and use it to pollinate the thornless blackberries.

When talking to the breeder (Pete) I know he said it can, and as we discussed every seed is different. Pete said he did crosses both ways. Also the articles I posted in the email said Logan has the Lincoln-Logan thornless gene. Black Diamond has the dominant thornless gene, and Triple Crown has the recessive. Columbia Star has Lincoln-Logan. So crossing these may result in mixed results.
Three different thornless genes exist.

I want to start with Columbia Star and Newberry. Both have Logan and Marion and Newberry also has Boysen in it's lineage. As shown in the pdf's I posted.
I'm thinking Nelson the hardy blackberry or the wild at my cottage could possibly add hardiness. I guess I'm going to use the wild as I don't want three Nelson plants.
Plus I can collect pollen this April or June from the wilds. I'm only doing a one way cross as I don't want the hassle of marking the wild. Plus more danger of losing it. I'll bring the pollen back to my yard and fertilize Columbia Star first as it will have flowers this year. The Russell Island wilds flower very early so I should be able to collect pollen before Columbia star blooms. Oh I found out the Lincoln-Logan gene is also dominant. So Just this one cross may give a thornless hardy blackberry, it will be trailing though.

I will do many crosses though, and crosses of crosses, etc. It will take a long time, and really is just for fun.

If you come up with something good JT I can test for you in a slightly colder zone. I will not steal it either.

I have three open pollinated blackberry plants that I have covered up outside. If the winter doesn't get any colder than it has already (low this year so far around 0F), then there is a good chance that I'll be able to grow all three into more mature plants this year. I believe these [hybrid] blackberry plants result from a cross between some of my trailing varieties that I had in pots in the backyard and the birds snacked on them. That gives me something to work with while I go through the hybridizing process in earnest.

I had located another blackberry plant that was thornless in another landscaping bed but couldn't properly transfer it and it died during the summer.

Yes I remember the thread about those plants. It got down to -4 here, and -2 next Monday expected. Hopefully my efforts to protect plants worked.

If I am not too old by then, I could test a couple at the north edge of zone 4, assuming I don't fill my 7 hobby acres by then with other fruit. (Who would ever do that, though?) Northwoodswis

Cool northwoods, I may need you down the road for testing.
We need a very complex flavored berry in the north, I think it can be done. You bought 3 of those Nelson's right? If you want to sell one I'll pay 1/3 of total cost, plus shipping .
Or I could send a raspberry or blackberry cultivar in trade. I just don't need three of them, and don't want to buy three, but could use one for breeding. As it appears to be very hardy.
No big deal, I may just buy three and give the others away or plant them at my cottage.

I would just as soon I keep all three so I would hopefully have more berries sooner. Maybe if you call the nursery you could persuade them to sell you just one bush, especially if you order other items at the same time. I hope the Nelsons really are as hardy as claimed. Best of wishes in your breeding endeavors. Northwoodswis

No worries, thought I would ask anyway. I will order three, and find room somewhere. I'm bad as I cannot destroy anything, i have to get over that! Well if anybody wants them? For free too.

Couldn't you just plant all three in a cluster? They might not all make it, or you might just find them the perfect berry and want more of them. They sound great, except for the thorns. Northwoodswis

I ordered a Prime Ark Freedom -thornless primocane blackberry from Hirts Garden and received a beautiful 4 inch plant that arrived in great condition. The problem was that it had thorns. When I contacted Hirts and sent them a picture, they gave me a full refund. I believe that I now have a Prime Arkansas 45 throned blackberry. Hirts Garden provides great customer service. But alas, I don't have a Freedom.

Northwoods, you have a point, not all may make it either. I have only lost one blackberry that failed to thrive when first purchsed, most are super tough plants. I have to think of a new patch to make, find room somewhere. As I need to grow out many too. For now seedlings can stay in pots.
Nortwoods I have some excellent tasting berries, and I know Nelson is not going to be in their class, I truly only need it for breeding. If it was excellent it would be all over.
I have Marion, Boysen, Columbia Star, Black Diamond, Triple Crown, all have superb flavor, and will be adding Newberry too. Another which in trials not only tasted better than anything else, out produced them too. Columbia Star and Newberry are super excellent, top of the line cultivars
But are borderline hardy here, and I need to fix that by crossing them with Nelson. Well at least try, see what happens. It's going to take years too. I can't cross with Nelson until 2016 when it will flower for the first time, if I buy them now. But I can cross with the wilds, and will do so..

Charlie, Freedom is all over now, plenty of time to order!

I just ordered Prime Ark Freedom from Indiana Berry a few weeks ago. It looks like they still have it.

I'm replacing my Caroline (fall) raspberries and most of my Prime Jan blackberries with earlier floricane blackberries (Osage, Natchez, and Arapaho). Since all are earlier than Triple Crown, and I only lose the 2nd half of it, hopefully I can avoid SWD. The PA Freedom is supposed to be pretty early with its floricanes, so even if I get SWD on the primocanes, there will be some value. And without the nasty thorns that Prime Jan has...

I'm looking forward to trying Newberry- I planted a couple last year, even though I'm not too keen on thorny trailing varieties. At least it looks trailing to me so far. I know Raintree describes it as "semi-erect". The four new ones that I am adding are thorn-less and fully erect (I think).

I have noticed that sometimes semi-erects can trail the first year.

Newberry and Columbia Star are great if you can grow them, but they are trailing varieties (whatever the marketing says they are trailing based on watching them grow) and along with all the other trailing ones do not take summer heat or cold temps well. I planted Columbia Star last spring right next to some eastern varieties and the eastern varieties grew three times as much.

Scott

I agree Scott, why I want to breed with say Nelson or a local wild to give them some hardiness. Or at least attempt it. You could look at it as improving the flavor of Nelson.
Something decent that is super hardy to my zone.
USDA and OSU that developed Columbia Star and Newberry describe them as trailing, see my links in this thread. Still I have seen semi-erects trail first year, even 2nd year before becoming upright. Not all but some. Loch Ness is doing this for me. Although CS and NB are not semi-erects. I like trailing as they are easier to protect, less work for me. Easier to position on trellis too. I keep breaking my uprights.
My CS was slow to start too, fruit nut's grew well in TX.
In my experience first year plants are unpredictable and often thrive the 2nd year. One needs to wait till a decent root system is established.

I know we discussed this before, but I haven't had heat problems with my trailing blackberries so far. If you look at historical temperatures for Corvallis, OR where they test and breed these varieties, it regularly gets into the 90's there during the summer months. I think the trailing varieties as a whole may be more sensitive to drought than the typical Eastern varieties though.

jburton, Corvallis is 5-10 degrees cooler than my summer weather, and its a lot less humid and rains a lot more.

I should have mentioned the drought issue, as we discussed before that is a factor and I don't know to what degree that is slowing my trailing berries down vs heat. Both happen together in August.

Scott

Here the weather is cooler, it never becomes super hot. My trailing cultivars grow 20 feet or more. It's kinda a problem. Going all over the place. And if I prune them, then the laterals grow all over, they are amazing plants. Triple Crown is a west coast plant and that thing grows like mad here. Good berries too! A joint release from the USDA-Beltsville and the Pacific West Agricultural Research Service.

Scott,

I'm not disputing that heat impacted your trailing blackberries growth but I did want to qualify that 'heat' into the lower 90's doesn't necessary prevent trailing blackberries from growing normally.