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craigericnicholson

Bar top cracking and separating

11 years ago

Hello,
I've been told by a trusted friend that the forum is filled with an amazing group of experts. I come to you needing advice as a 1st time homebuilder. I am feeling less than in control of my situation and would very much appreciate some advice. I want to do what is best for both myself and also fair and reasonable for my builder. Not sure if this matters, but the home is in the one million dollar range. This builder has a solid reputation, but we've butted heads quite a bit. I think that is normal though. I am somewhat young for building such a home, 36yo when we broke ground. I at times feel he's trying to take advantage due to my inexperience/age. I was hoping to come away from the process with much more of a a "warm" feeling about the experience.

I live in the North East, Pittsburgh to be exact. I closed on my new construction in November. Long story short, I wasn't pleased with quite a few items but had to shorten my timeline to stay under the 12 mo period allow by the bank. This made my closing a swift process and I accepted a lot more imperfections than I would have preferred. That aside, I'm running into some new issues and I was wondering what responsibility my builder has to repair them. My first concern is saying he doesn't do walk throughs. He had previously mentioned that he does 30 and 90 day walk throughs so this is contradictory. So they say a picture is worth a 1,000 words so i will attach a few images of the cracking/splitting and separating of boards and trim I"m seeing. My builder is saying that this is all typical with temperature/moisture changes and that he is not responsible. If he would have told me this would have happened with my bar top I would have looked at other options. He's basically saying "too bad, bad choice". Do I have a leg to stand on to get him back to fix? Does the entire top need to be replaced? Am I better to suck it up and have the top covered with pounded copper or anther option.

Also, as for the separating trim. Does the builder have any responsibility to return and fix the spacing or will it go back to normal in spring as he says?

This post was edited by censt62001 on Thu, Jan 29, 15 at 13:54

Comments (13)

  • 11 years ago

    More images. Note the board is splitting. There are also sections where the boards a separating from each other. This image is of the trim work separating.

  • 11 years ago

    More images of bar top. Glue is now raising and visible where boards have separated.

  • 11 years ago

    I'd like to see a fuller image showing more of the bar top so I can understand which part of it is in the picture. But offhand it looks like simply shoddy work (wide cross-grain joints shouldn't be glued). I don't know why the builder is refusing to fix something like that as it should be charged back to the original vendor. Given the original work I kind of doubt you'll get an improved replacement though.

    The white trim looks like something I'd just caulk and call it a day.

  • 11 years ago

    Woodwork can be tricky, especially if you live in an area with quite a variability between summer & winter.

    I'm not a home builder, but I have done some woodwork (desks/dressers and such), and 'gapping' (as what I'm seeing doesn't appear to be a stress crack) can be common if temperature and humidity are not controlled, and differ from the 'build' weather conditions.

    Was your woodwork installed when your space was air conditioned?

  • 11 years ago

    I'm going to attach an image of the full bar plus some better angles. The bar was built in summer without air. In fact we had mold build up in the basement in summer when he neglected to put on the air conditioning. I just dont get how a guy in the business for 30 yrs building these types of homes can make these types of mistakes. I think I saw him 4 times over the year, all of which were meetings i requested. He's recently divorced and I think checked out of the process. I would not build again with him, but was locked in to him to secure the lot which was the last in a development we wanted into. If I took the same approach to my job people would die, literally.

  • 11 years ago

    Image of the large crack which is a split board, not separating.

  • 11 years ago

    Smaller crack, separating of boards. Any thoughts on how this should have been done if not glued?

  • 11 years ago

    Image of the large crack which is a split board, not separating.

    {{gwi:2133267}}

  • 11 years ago

    Is the bar top a laminate or solid wood? The joints make it appear to be a laminate.

  • 11 years ago

    Wood is hygroscopic and will absorb and release moisture. It swells and contracts. That changes it's dimensions. It changes most across the grain, and less with the grain. No material that does that will ever have a super tight join where cross and long grains meet. Like your bar. Or cabinet doors. Nor where mitered molding cuts meet. You're going to have gaps. It's normal.

    The best approach here is to figure out what you can do to stabilize the home's humidity to around 25-35%, winter and summer. That means whole home humidification in winter for most of North America, and it means the use of a correctly designed AC system for most of the summer months. Minimize the shrinking and swelling of wood, and most of what you see will go away on it's own.

  • 11 years ago

    I don't understand the joinery for the bar top if he used solid wood. There's no room for the boards to move the way he has them mechanically interlocked with the cross-grain pieces.

    Cross-grain joints are always an area where you have to be careful with woodworking. Solid wood is going to move, that's just a fact. What you design for is how you want to have the wood move. You can fasten/glue in the middle and allow the wood to move toward both ends, or you can fasten one end and allow the wood to move towards the other end. There's joinery that allows for movement without glue, such as pinned sliding tenons, sliding dovetails, wide slots for fasteners, etc. Those techniques allow you have tight joints while allowing the wood to move.

    If you look at your bar top photo, you can see that the boards in the middle have no way to move due to the way they're interleaved with the boards going the other direction. You get stress cracks like yours when the wood wants to move but can't. If your guy has been in business for 30 years as you say, this should all be second nature for him so perhaps there's something I'm missing from the photos. But the cracks are right there, so maybe not.

    Plywood is a different story as those are pretty stable and don't move much, particularly mdf core. Anyway bottom line is you have a crack where there shouldn't be. You don't need to be an expert to know that ain't right.

  • 11 years ago

    The wood is poplar I believe. It seems to be what my builder uses everywhere wood is required. Poplar doesn't have much grain and I assume its among the cheaper woods.

  • 11 years ago

    Well it's September 1819th and I finally have thebbuiler here fixing it. He's only removing the one board that cracked. And the filling the other areas that separated. I held back money which seems to be the only way to get this guy to do anything. Feel like this is going to end in an argument grrrrr.

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