National Center for the Prevention of Home Improvement Fraud
3525 Piedmont Rd Bldg 7 Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30305
Ph 4049026100

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I just typed a long message and it disappeared when I tried to provide a link that has apparently been banned from GardenWeb. Come on, GardenWeb, you could have left my message in place at least!

Blues, I'll make this short this time around...educate yourself on the proper construction of a shower from the inside out before you take on the redo--to be sure the redo is done right. There is a lot more to building a shower than getting the tile straight, and if this guy didn't even do that, I'll bet what is under the tile is not proper either. You may find all that information on the TCNA site, but the John Bridge site is also good, and the people that participate on the forums there are very helpful. I even found a tile pro on the site that came by and gave me advice on issues with my shower. If I have to do a complete tear-out, he will get the job.

I feel your pain--good luck!

Update: new team in place and after a full demo and all new materials we are getting closer to it being done. Stone gets set this afternoon. A VERY expensive mistake of having the wrong guy on the job. All work done (including framing, durarock answer schluter) by the plumbers was not able to be saved when tile was removed.

Thank you all for the advice, recomendations and support. I hope this blog helps others NEVER have to go through this difficult lesson. Finished photos will be posted.

Other professionals were discussed with the work. He did not use right application process for shower or for the full bath floor (marble) all needed torn out, nothing could be saved :( It was a very expensive mistake on our part. Lesson learned. This has been the project from ____. Anything that could go wrong did. Cannot wait until this is all behind us. We will be paying for this for a long time :( All this money going out and still cannot enjoy it yet. Sooooo looking forward to getting our house back. We have been living in half our house over 6 months. I wish that was an exaggerated time frame. Maybe will have our lives back by mid March.

brb1:

This may be an indelicate question, but was this the work of the lowest bidder?

No, wish that was the case Joseph. We paid good money and did not go with the lowest bid :(

Old contractor is asking to settle up on recipes.... really? OK so what is the proper way to settle this? Do we pay him? Do we provide him with our material cost that he essential ruined, as all had to be torn out and discarded? Tell him we will not press matter further and both move on? Do we press for full reimbursement?

I should note, we purchased most materials, including: morter, grout, paint, tile, etc. We did not buy the 5 gal. bucket of filler and caulk the man must have used of to try and cover up his work mistakes. Also some drywall material for small patch jobs. Nothing over 1 sheet would have been needed. There were a few molding replacements he also purchased.

Great advice on the lien waver! Thanks!!!! We want to be fair and are not the type to get courts involved. Just feel like we are between a rock and a hard place with this one. If I were him, I would feel awful about the money I wasted on the home owners behalf that I would not even think of contacting them for one cent. But then I'm different then most I guess. Live and learn. Hope my horrific experience can help others learn from so they don't make the same mistake we did.

I am a remodeling contractor .If I did a job like that I would be ashamed to even look you in the eye again.Let alone ask for money and I would expect to be taken to court for a full reimbursement.He knows what he did or he a complete moron.

Hope you get everything resolved soon and enjoy the new shower.

Thanks Precision Carpentry! Well, we feel the same way... but I guess not everyone stands behind their work :( We really messed up not getting a contract. We are not the type to go to court. Plus with all the added money for a full demo redo and materials don't have the money, time or energy to go this direction... live and learn I guess... really ready to move forward and put all this behind us, though now we will be paying for it for a long time.

So, this contractor did a truly horrible job that destroyed all the materials the homeowner paid for, and then cost the homeowner even more money in addtional tear out costs, material costs, and labor costs, and now the homeowner still has to give this idiot even more money to prevent him from filing a lein?? Bathroomblues1, I think it is great that you "want to be fair", but where is any of this fair to you? I'd be hard pressed to give that guy another penny. Lein laws were not put into place to make sure that contractors get paid for substandard work. And if contractors who do this kind of work are going to hold homowners hostage with threats of leins, then that's a real problem.

In the future always get a written contract and anytime a contractor asks you to buy materials that should be a red flag.

I don't see that as a red flag at all. I purchased all my own tile for my bath remodels and perferred doing it that way. Contractor supplied rough materials.

Jelly toast you have a great point. I can hardly swallow give him another penny. In fact I think if I were him, I would be paying back part of the funds already paid.

We know we got burnt. Took the fact that he is the husband of a business owner that I go to, highly recommend and proof of work. Thought with relationships and trustworthy side of things we would be protected. This is the business he has and work he does. Should have could have would have hindsight. We know MUCH better for the next time.

We have not had a conversation with him yet. We will see how that goes. Hopefully it can be navigated where we are not once again hit in the pocketbook.

We just want our house, driveway (storage container due to remodel) and lives back. Sooooo looking forward to that first steam in the new shower.

I should have said"contractor expexts you to by all material". Since you brought the matter up I would probably charge extra for you buying your own tile depending on the circumstances.

There is a lot of crap tile on the market.Some not square or flat.Some with varying color .If I pick it out I have control over it and can make sure it comes from the same batch.If you go to a big box store I have no control over the product you buy.It may take me longer to install because of lower quality and you may not be happy with a variance in color when i'm done and expect me to replace it on my dime even thogu you picked it out.It may have lippage that you aren't happy with and expect me to redo even though you picked it out and don't know enough about these products to make a good choice.

Please do let us know how the conversation goes. Good luck to you! You definitely deserve a break after all of this.

Precision Carpentry, it was him that recommend tile place. Materials purchased originally were quality and not cheap. Did go to another tile store, per new contractors recomendations. We still picked out materials, and new contractor calculated overage. In both cases the contractor did pick up the materials.

Thanks Jellytoast, we do feel like we need a break in all of this. The bad contractor work is just one thing that has gone wrong in a long list of things with this. In all honesty, one could not have written a more disastrous comic story line if they even tried. Lots of tears, shaking our heads and wondering how we got such bad luck on this. It all has to balance out and work out right? We are really hoping so :)

Well,that's a little different isn't it.Not what you explained in your OP.

I was just making a valid point that I want to pick out the materials from my supplier that I will be using on the job and that when a contractor wants you to buy all the materials and he can't finance the job ,that is a red flag.

"There is a lot of crap tile on the market. Some not square or flat.Some with varying color .If I pick it out I have control over it and can make sure it comes from the same batch. If you go to a big box store I have no control over the product you buy."

This is EXACTLY why I want quality control over what I'm putting in my house. I pick it out, I pay for it, I examine it when it arrives at my house ... I know what I'm getting. There is no way I would turn the job of choosing my tile over to someone else and I am surprised that anyone would let their contractor choose their tile for them. I mean, I can understand contractors wanting to control as many variables as they can, but trying to control the tile that someone chooses for their home? I just don't see how that would work. I just don't buy it that the average customer "doesn't know enough about these products to make a good choice."

Intention was not to mislead... first contractor told us where to go. We were to pick up cost most materials and responsible for ordering. He picked up from store brought all materials in house laid them out and inspected them. We talked about joints and layout. Was very specific with him that I have a blessing/curse of seeing things that are off (was explained before we hired too) showed him previous homeowner's tile work that I did not like with uneven grout joints. Was assured that he would pay close attention to details and all would be even and "beautiful" we paid a little over 1/2 up front (400 additional to float for materials) he did use a massive amount of filler/caulk purchase molding drywall patch work materials. All materials we purchased were approved by him. We even said to let us know if not correct, or what he is use to using and we would return.

New contractor, husband and I purchased durarock and blocks for bench, on his request and tiles. New contractor purchased new schluter material, but we did cut a check. With both, there was some responsibility on our end and some the contractor did. With second one, there was much less we were responsible for securing. Second one supplied all morter and grout.

You took my post way out of context.I am not picking out the style or pattern of the tile or anything else.That is something the customer decides for them selves .I go to my supplier and make sure they get a quality product ,of their choosing, and that the batches and colors all match.

Something the customer can't do going to HD or Lowes and buying it .

Sorry if I misunderstood. I based my reply on the statement, "If I pick it out I have control over it," and " ... [the customers] don't know enough about these products to make a good choice," which I took to mean that you were picking it out. I still think that picking out a quality product and making sure that the batches and colors match is not beyond a customer's own capabilities. But, getting back on track, quality control over the tile purchased is probably the least of this OP's worries, lol.

I am not saying picking out a quality product is beyond the customers ability.I have acess to some wholesale suppliers that the customer does not.They pick the colors and samples and I supply the product from my supplier assuring quality and a good color match and uniformity.

I am supplying them with a superior product to what they can buy from a big box store while allowing them to choose whatever they want.It's a win for both of us.They get a superior product and I don't run into any glitches installing it.

As I said, I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

"Bathroomblues1, I think it is great that you "want to be fair", but where is any of this fair to you?"

One of the greatest lessons of life I've every learned, probably when I was 2, is that life isn't fair.

I see contractors getting ripped off by homeowners and the first thing on the mind of the inexperienced ones is to go to court. This is a fool's errand.

Life isn't fair. The trick on either side of the contracting fence is to keep losses to a minimum and move on.

Are you charging him the cost of your materials that had to be torn out due to his negligence? I might offer to reimburse his receipts once he reimburses you for the materials he damaged. I would not pay him any more.

Do not pay him. If he comes after you and sues you for money, counter-sue him for all the money you lost and property damage to your house. You don't even have to hire an attorney to file a counter-claim. Save all documentation, receipts, photos, etc. You can also file complaints with licensing agencies. Yes, this guy may be nice, but you didnt hire him to be nice or to be your friend. You hired him to do his job, which he failed to do. Legally, he should not be paid for something he failed to do and you were forced to correct. Do not pay him!!!

One more thing, was he licensed? You do not owe him anything if he was not licensed.

Not licensed.... another issue hindsight

bathroomblues1, check with the contractor's licensing board in your state regarding unlicensed contractors and lien laws.

Also check to see if he was insured.I carry $2M liability insurance

If he damaged your house which it looks like he did you can file a claim against his insurance.From what I've seen there probably was none.

if he is not licensed, he cant put a lien (but check with your state), so legally you do not owe him anything.

True Joseph.... just don't want to be the jerk homeowners who don't want to pay for work. However, we hot taken to the cleaners so yes, would love for him to pay back money for ruined materials and uncompleted job... but being the real world, would be much easier settling on a wash then us paying him.

Amazing advice and expertise all! Thanks for taking the time to answer.

No don't think licensed, so no then on insured component.

Yes his "work" drastically caused am increase in budge and costs to us, including demo of his work, redoing shluter shower (not cheap) and new materials. Not to mention time line that been pushed back 2 more months.

New issue is now with LaToscana Novello Thermostatic Shower Valve. No hot water :(

OH no! Sorry to hear that.. I was just reading through the thread! Man I can't believe the first pics. I'm happy you got someone new in there.

No blonde jokes.. but what happens when the valve like yours doesn't work and the tile is already up? Do you have to rip everything out? My shower is going in now and I bought some weird shower head/handle off Amazon and I'm praying I don't have issues once the water is on...

Mrs Shayne, shouldn't have to.... should be able to take off the plate. They may need to access it from behind the shower, so in our case, the, patched drywall will be cut again. At least that is my hope/thought. This is based on what we had experienced in the past. When we had new plumbing in house due to slab leaks they changed out some fixtures for us, and nothing was needing to he done on the tile side.

"Do not pay him. If he comes after you and sues you for money, counter-sue him for all the money you lost and property damage to your house. You don't even have to hire an attorney to file a counter-claim. Save all documentation, receipts, photos, etc. You can also file complaints with licensing agencies. Yes, this guy may be nice, but you didnt hire him to be nice or to be your friend. You hired him to do his job, which he failed to do. Legally, he should not be paid for something he failed to do and you were forced to correct. Do not pay him!!!"

Yes, by all means invest more money, time, and emotion in this mess. After a lengthy and emotionally and financially draining court battle, you may prevail, at which time this "contractor" will declare bankruptcy and you'll get nothing.

Either that or just acknowledge that life isn't fair and move on.

My suggestion was only to counter-sue if the contractor comes after her to get the remaining balance - not to bring a lawsuit against him first (although she certainly has a right to do so). Second, if he is not licensed, i doubt he is doing business as a corporation (so declaring bankruptcy is really moot unless this guy wants to declare personal bankruptcy, etc). And if he is doing business as a corp, he may have insurance policy which will pay the judgment even if there is bankruptcy. But we are getting too legal and technical here, which was not the issue she was raising. She was only asking if she owed the balance to this guy...

Please don't be taking legal advice from Bongo LOL! Among other things, "if he is not licensed, he cant put a lien (but check with your state), so legally you do not owe him anything." The first part may be true, but the second part doesn't follow at all from the first part.

My concern which at this point is water over the dam, but why did you not have the conversation with the first hack about making sure all of the dollars were squared away one way or another. IF you end up with your property liened and he is a licensed and insured contractor and regardless of how big of a hack he is and or was by law you may find out he was required to be given the opportunity to fix the mess he made. In others words you may owe him in full by the eyes of a court!!

OP stated he is not licensed.

Ah, ok missed that part.......

All great advice and suggestions, thank you! He was provided a chance to fix based upon concerns we had with his work. We were in agreement to what the problems were and the needed course correction. He was unable to adequately fix the work. Left it that we were going to pause, bring in neutral third party (plumbers, tile workers, and painting/drywallers) to determine where we needed to go from there. At that point old contractor "hack" had a tantrum and said he just did not know if/when he would be able to work our job back into his schedule. In essence, felt like a mutual firing/parting ways. He has not reached out after his first text saying he had receipts that needed setteled. Husband's response was to let us know when he could come over to discuss. Again, no contact from him after we followed up to the text he had sent. Guessing this is not over, but it would be so nice if it were. We will see how it all unfolds.

Thanks to all for taking the time to advise and provide suggestions!!!! Huge help!!!!

Thanks for the clarifications bathroom, and that does make sense and I apologize as well as even though I did read most of the posts it was a couple here and there over the weeks months and I do not recall them all.