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pipdog_gw

here we go again! layout help needed

11 years ago

After over a year of planning and saving, we are closing in on our kitchen remodel. GW was instrumental in helping us design our last kitchen that we did four years ago and I am eternally grateful. I learned a lot from our last kitchen (and made some mistakes I'm hoping not to repeat), but this is a much larger remodel and our first modern home, so I'm coming here for the collective wisdom and guidance.

We're a family of four, two kids under 5. We cook regularly. We entertain fairly frequently and have a lot of neighborhood kids over. We live an indoor/outdoor lifestyle and often eat outside.

The home is a MCM post and beam with sloped ceilings (17 feet at their highest). Our kitchen remodel is part of a larger full home remodel.

The kitchen is original (except for the fridge, ovens and dishwasher, which were updated in the 70s/80s). It is u-shaped and faces the driveway/garage. We had considered having the birch cabinets re-finished and updating the appliances/counters, but after living in the home a year, the current kitchen configuration does not work. Our issues with the current space include:

- No pantry for food storage - our food is crammed in cabinets. With two kids and a bunch of hungry little friends coming over, we're really short on space and need a proper pantry with pull out shelves.
- The peninsula juts out too far into the walkway. We have had countless head bumps for my kids and hip bumps for adults.
- The touch latch cabinets don't work properly and you have to punch them to get them open. They'll be repaired and re-purposed in a friend's MCM house. I won't be sad to see them go, as pretty as they are.
- We never sit at the peninsula. It's not big enough for two people to sit at unless one of them wants to be right next to the wall. The counter at the peninsula has become a dumping ground for keys, mail, and junk.
- At the kitchen window, you face the garage - we would rather face the backyard.

Our plan involves moving the kitchen to the adjacent room. The living space is now open concept, as we tore down a pony wall that separated the kitchen/dining room and what was the formal living room. The rooms share a double-sided fireplace.

The new layout includes an 86 inch island and a 48 inch pantry. "Move RAG" in the plans to this side means move the unsightly large air return that is currently on the kitchen wall.

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Here is the kitchen as we found it:

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The plan involves moving the kitchen to this space (the 36 in range/hood would roughly be where the Jere peacock is):

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The kitchen and front entry of the home:
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Other angles of the kitchen:

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View from the living room:
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Some relevant facts:

-- The light trays (the white soffit that runs around the perimeter of the rooms) will stay. They are an element throughout the house that we cannot remove.
-- The current kitchen is going to be transformed into a smaller den/kid area with built-ins and a secondary TV (our main TV will be the living room). We envision a place where they can do their homework and snack/watch tv with their friends. The window that is currently over the kitchen sink will become a slider which will lead out to an enclosed patio.

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--we have already bought the appliances. The DWs are drawers and will be integrated. The fridge will also be integrated.

Any thoughts/criticisms/opinions/judgments are much appreciated. Hopefully I've posted enough info/details to give you all a basis for a meaningful critique. Thanks, as always.
Pipdog

Comments (10)

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Love your home! And I'm smitten with your kitchen although I can sure see how the layout isn't the best. The cabinets look in fantastic condition in the photos. Are you planning on reusing any of them, at least the drawer fronts and doors? I tend to be a bit of a purist to removal of original elements in good condition always makes me a bit sad but I don't have to live with your dysfunctional space so easy for me to say, right?

    I don't think I've ever seen light soffits like that in a home and I think they're a great architectural element that you should never touch!

    Onto your plan:
    * How many inches are between the island seating and table seating if all the chairs are pulled out as if someone was sitting in them? It looks a little tight to me. Here are the recommended clearances.

    {{gwi:2135518}}

    * How big of a sink are you putting in? It looks quite large which is good if you only have the one sink.

    * Where are you storing your everyday dishes/cutlery/glassware. If it's close to the DW, work gets done quicker and more easily.

    * With small children, you might want to have the island corners rounded for safety.

    I'm not one of the real experts here so others might find more issues but I think your plan looks pretty good. Keeping the fridge out of the work space for access by diners/snackers is a good thing. Nice work!

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This is exciting! Some random thoughts, in no particular order.

    86" will work well for comfortable seating for three.

    Install 30" countertops along your far run, 30 " deep lower cabinets, and 18" uppers. Range can be pulled forward 6". Much more storage (including for your pantry).

    Could the low wall for plumbing be omitted, if the sink could be vented in the now larger cabinets? We actually vent our island sink in an adjacent cabinet. (Again, maybe more storage). Below is a link to an island venting thread, with a great picture from LWO.

    Love seeing the glimpses of the water; these will be your 'Camelot' years in this home with the kids! I'll look forward to following your progress.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Island Venting

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    thanks for the feedback.

    funkycamper, thanks, very helpful to have the clearance info. We need to select our dining table and chairs to figure out how much space we'll have between. I think the sink will be around 32-35 inches -- still not sure as we're investigating having an integrated sink. We're re-purposing the original birch cabinets in a friend's home, so they will get new life after being refinished. We're re-purposing everything we can in this home -- as much as we have a love/hate relationship with The Cabinets That Will Not Open, we would not allow them to see the inside of a dumpster.

    oldbat2be, camelot years, love it! Thanks for your suggestions. We're excited to make this space more functional for our family. I like your idea for eliminating the low wall for plumbing -- I need to talk to our architect about what the plumbing requirements are and whether we can do that. It would be great to gain more storage. Along those lines, I drew up a very rough cabinet design. The current layout would have no upper cabinets on the wall with the range/hood -- just open shelving, which would be high and likely only for decorative items:

    {{gwi:2137054}}
    Side view
    {{gwi:2137055}}

    Obviously with this design we are sacrificing storage in order to achieve a minimalist look. But we'll have plenty of food storage with the 48 in pantry and a larger fridge, which is the main issue we have now. We would have to be very economical with what we have in our kitchen, which is fine because we don't have a lot of stuff. Our dishware would be in a lower drawer, next to the fridge. Glassware would be on the open shelf near the fridge. Cookware can go in the drawers under the cook top. I think we'd be ok with storage, but would welcome input from others to hear if we're too light on storage.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I thought I recognized your board name... just 4 yrs and you're at it again? A glutton for punishment - lol!

    I'd like to see a LO of the areas (LR, DR, Kit and new den) with all needed measurements on graph paper. Put in the kitchen as you 'see' it to be. btw, keep a master LO copy w/out the cabs, appls, island so it's easier to repost with changes. Give width of fridge, stove/cook top/DOs, sink.

    I think having the 'den' close by for the kids is a good idea!

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I hate to say it, because I love the house, but storing your dishes and glasses near the refrigerator just replaces one bad layout with another. That's a long walk from the dishwasher!

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I love this house, too. It's been fun to watch the projects and dialogue so far.

    I'm bad, though, because I like the current location of the kitchen....and that full window at the exterior is so great, though I get that it isn't your favorite view in the house.

    That being said, I'm sure whatever you do will be great, Pipdog.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I've seen that advice before (re: wanting to store all dishes and glasses near DW). I thought about it hard,but didn't take it, not saying you shouldn't though... In our layout, it would have meant having the DW near the dining room OR having the primary dishes at the opposite end of the room from where they are used. I don't know, I guess I only unload the DW every couple of days so it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

    I actually keep the dishes all over the place: coffee cups above coffee pot, breakfast plates and cereal bowls near cereal and toaster, and glasses and plates closer to dining room. (Of course when visitors "help" it takes a while to end up like that again!) I'm just trying to say that it is something worth thinking about, but there's more than one way to do most things!

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    desertsteph, lol, yes, we are definitely gluttons for punishment. But I enjoy this process and the chaos that it entails -- it's a creative outlet for me. I'm not sure what that says about me, but I'll leave it at that. I'll pick up some graph paper and draw up my space soon.

    sjhockeyfan and loriinthenw, i measured the space from the proposed location of the DW to where the shelves would be, and it's about 3-4 steps from the DW to the shelving. It's probably not ideal, but not too far for me. The other option is to move the DW where the pullout trash is, but I don't like that option as we're both right handed and loading the DW is easier for us in the current proposed location. But we've been living without a DW since we moved in (the existing one doesn't work), so we'd be happy to have one even if it was in the garage.

    thanks steph2000. We tried to make the current kitchen work and gave it a fair chance. I generally prefer smaller kitchens and had hoped that we could just upgrade the appliances and be done with it. It could have been so much easier. But after working in the kitchen, hosting a couple parties and holiday dinners, I found that I felt claustrophobic when I was working in it. And when the kids started bonking their heads on the corner of the peninsula as they were racing into the kitchen at full speed, I knew that peninsula had to go.

    i'll be back with graph paper plans...

    This post was edited by pipdog on Thu, Jan 8, 15 at 0:00

  • 11 years ago

    Hey pipdog -- totally off topic, but I've loved your pictures of Mother of Pearl countertops with white onyx backsplash! I can't figure out a way to get in touch w/you directly, but hoping you see this and can share w/me the details of your backsplash b/c I LOVE it. Just reserved our MoP slab and would be so excited to just replicate your look without having to pore over a ton of tiles for the backsplash. Thanks!!


  • 11 years ago

    I'm glad gigiegge revived this thread. I am anxious to see more of your plans and learn how things are going because I LOVE your home so much. Hope all is well.