I have read elsewhere that 80 lumens per square foot was recommended for task lighting. While my current kitchen lighting is too dark, it's only about 6400 lumens, all coming from one ceiling light and one over the sink. Oh, and the teeny 25-watt incandescent in the OTR micro. It did seem like almost 3x the number of lumens would be too much but I didn't want to end up with things too dark either.

Thanks for the link. I think I had actually clipped that at GW but since it was marked as a private clipping, it didn't migrate over.

35 lumens per square foot will also lower our costs. Thanks so much.

Oh, at the link it talks about the lights being at the edge of the counters, won't you then be blocking the light with your head? This issue always confuses me.

Oh, I read further in the thread you linked above and found my answer re placement. Sorry and thanks.

UCL will be more appropriate for task lighting.

Yes, that's the downside of not having very many uppers.

For the section without uppers, if you don't mind doing something new, you could look at Phillips TRUGROOVE CONTINUOUS.

true groove

Oh, wow! I'm in lust. I have a feeling these are above my current pay grade but might be worth a visit to the closest retailer about 2 hours away to explore further. Oh, LEDs and the new lighting technology are going to change the way our world looks, aren't they? Thanks for the tip, even if I have to lust until this tech comes down in price someday.

Funky,

Have you said why you have not centered your pendant over the sink. If possible, I would want to center that fixture.

What is the quality of light from those Phillips TruGroove Continuous? Are they a nicer light (less shadows) than a regular 4 inch recessed downlight or the same?

It's centered on the window but not on the sink. This is the way it is now and it's fine. I don't even notice the sink being off-centered at all. It would bother me more to look across the room and see it off-center on the window.

I don't know anything about the TruGrooves beyond what I read at the website. They just connect in a cool way and they even have corner connectors so you could really have continuous lighting around your room without a break. I have no idea how they compare to those other lights but they claim to be more energy efficient than the standard LEDs.

Centered on the window is perfect. I should have looked more closely at the window location before posting. Would you consider some sort of up lighting to balance all the down lighting you will have in the kitchen? We are planning one semi-flush fixture that is described, under lighting direction, as an up light. We will also have one feature wall in our kitchen that will have two sconces -- but our kitchen is large and you will likely not have a spot for sconces like we do.

You could put an up light (or even ambient) light fixture in the large 54 inch aisle and take out the one LED flush (blue oval) you have floating in the aisle. This fixture could be nicely centered in that L shaped aisle area. An up light fixture of some sort will give a softer, indirect, more flattering light than down lights will. The online store Lightingdirect.com rates their light fixtures by lighting direction so you can be sure you don't choose a fixture that is also a down light. There are not that many semi-flush lights or flush lights that are rated as up lights or ambient lights so you need to search for a while to find a pleasing one that gives in direct light and not down light again.

Also, we were told to place our recessed down lights 10 inches from the counter edge (most of our kitchen has no uppers). Are those roughly where you show your LED flush mounts over the counter. Finally, why did you choose LED flush mounts rather than can lights?

Carol

I never even thought of an up-light fixture. That could certainly add a nice ambiance when task lights aren't needed. I will play with that idea. Thanks!

Yeah, I figured you didn't notice the window issue, lol.

I was thinking about mid-point between wall and edge of counter and tried to center my little circles to show that. 10" from counter makes sense, too. I've never heard an exact placement so I was guessing. It seems that so many lighting plans I look at have the light fixture half on the counter and half off into the aisle and this makes no sense to me as your head would be blocking the light.

We are going with the flush mounts as we have a weird ceiling issue. We have a false ceiling of of 1/4" plywood, then 4" gap, then another ceiling of 3/4" plywood. Directly above that is the attic which has about 15" of loose insulation in it that has never been disturbed. We don't wish to disturb it now. My DH says it will be a lot easier to cut holes in the false ceiling and then pull/fish the wires up the wall (breaker box is in the garage below) than to have to cut through the 3/4" plywood and line up both holes correctly in both ceilings. Makes sense to me.

I think the flush mounts look fine and really don't drop down much more than the decorative edge for the can lights. I have also read that they tend to have greater coverage as the light is lower than the ceiling and shines out from the rounded edge of the light, where it meets up with the rim, instead of being more recessed and, thus, a bit shaded on the edge. Not sure if that's accurate or not but it makes sense to me, too.

Do you know anything about the flush-mount LEDs that I should be concerned about?

Thanks again for your help.

Oh, I should mention that we discussed taking the false ceiling out and installing the lights in the upper ceiling instead. It would be nice to have a bit more height to the ceiling but my husband doesn't want to cut through that 3/4" plywood. The house was built in 1949 and I don't know if plywood back then was made different or what but the wall we removed between kitchen and dining room was a bear as it also had 3/4" plywood and it was very difficult to cut. We compared the weight of a piece of the house's original plywood to a similar size of 3/4" plywood you can buy today and I swear it weighed twice as much. OK, maybe not because it's not like we weighed it but it was much heavier. We just really want to avoid having to cut anymore of that, if possible.

You might try contacting Phillips/ your local Phillips distributor directly about TrueGroove LED.

It would be easier to install the TrueGroove in a false ceiling than in a regular ceiling where you'd have to contend with the joists, ... The alternative is to use flat led panels which act like the (e.g. glimpse) flush mount lights.

Try saving the plywood for some other purposes/ resale if you're tearing it out. The wood is higher quality (in general) than modern plywood. On the downside, the glue used probably used formaldehyde based solvents.

I will call around about both TrueGroove and Glimpse. These are both options I would never have known about without your tips. So, a big thanks.

Yeah, the wood we tore out of the wall is being saved for future projects around here. It IS really good stuff. The edges have no gaps at all more like expensive Apple-Ply and some of the other quite expensive plywoods than what you get off the shelf today. We're going to put in a little outdoor kitchen on our partially-covered patio this summer and I was thinking the plywood might make a good countertop if sealed with marine varnish or something similar. The edging should look pretty cool and compliment my MCM house.

Other vendors (in no particular order) with similar offerings to the Phillips TrueGroove

FocalPoint Seem2 led recessed

Mark Architectural lighting linear recessed

So many cool choices. I'll investigate these, too. Thanks!

Funky, just wanted to make sure I did not mislead you when I said position the lights 10 inches from edge (I meant 10 inches from edge towards back splash). In other words close to half way over counter (or 15.5 inches from back splash). Of course, all this advice applies to can lights and you are using LED fixtures in lieu of cans.

If I go with the LED disk lights, they're about the same as using cans. I think this placement makes more sense than some other ideas I've heard as even if you're leaning into your work a bit, you shouldn't be leaning in far enough to create shadows. Unless you have a super big head. :)