Tired of zone 5 blackberries that can not handle zone 5 temps . I currently rely on local wild blackberries that are on my acreage . Kiowa can't take the temp and the thorn less ones I tried failed . Illini hardy is very thorny but good . I moved and never got more due to the thorns . Planted a couple triple crown last year . Thinking of trying to breed my own . Anyone else working on breeding . I know the seeds are hard to start .