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amykath

Anyone have experience with Charles Neil's Preconditioner?

11 years ago

I just ordered it and am wondering if anyone has used it. If so, what type of stain or dye do you use over it? It seems they (Charles Neil's group) uses wood dyes almost 100% of the time. I have some difficult cabs to stain (alder) and was curious.

Thanks in advance!

Amy


Comments (11)

  • PRO
    11 years ago

    I don't know anything about Charles Neil's products. But, if you aren't experienced with dyes, don't use them.


    amykath thanked Al Fortunato Furnituremaker
  • 11 years ago

    if you never have used a pre conditioner, I would recommend you water pop instead. its used the same way as a pre conditioner, but A LOT harder to make mistakes with water popping.

    amykath thanked gregmills_gw
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    "Water Pop" raises the grain. Raising the grain of woods like cherry and maple, pine, etc. will make the blotching even worse. It causes the wild grain to stand up and absorb more stain, therefore making it even darker. Sanding sealers/pre-conditioners are nothing more than thinned down finishes, some with lubricants added to ease sanding, which seal the grain to prevent it from absorbing too much stain.


    amykath thanked Al Fortunato Furnituremaker
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    Your first experience using dyes should not be on something you want to keep, especially (new kitchen?) cabinets made of Alder. If you really want to learn, pick up something from a garage sale or the garbage, and learn on that. Not your newly purchased cabinets.

    I do like "If you've never dyed, you haven't lived".


    amykath thanked Al Fortunato Furnituremaker
  • 11 years ago

    I have used the Charles Neil product many times. My go to stain is the General Finishes Oil Based Stain, but have used other brands as well with good success.

    amykath thanked kathyb_ny
  • PRO
    11 years ago

    I've used the product several times and find it useful. It works really well on face grain if applied in two coats and sanded as directed in the instructions that come with the product. For end grain, I prefer Zinsser's Sealcoat which is dewaxed shellac.

    Below are two pictures of the cherry cabinetry we built for a wine bar using Charles Neil's product.


    Cherry is very prone to blotching but the color came out very even though the dim lighting in the bar makes it hard to see. The stain was some sort of Minwax product which many people hate but we still use a lot of it simply because we learned how to cope with it before discovering Sherwin Williams stain. I recommend Sherwin Williams oil-based stains over Minwax. Both work well if you know what to do but the latter products are more forgiving.

    The only dyes we use are Transtints mixed in water. For really difficult to stain woods, we'll apply Blotch Control or dewaxed shellac and follow up with water-based dyes. Once that's dry, oil stain goes over that. If the color is still off, toners (dye in finish) are the last step before the topcoat. Most people don't have the equipment to spray toners and there's a learning curve to the process.



    I've not used alder too much (prefer cherry, walnut and maple) and never tried Blotch Control on it.


    If you want to contact Charles Neil, he's a frequent contributor to the Lumberjocks forum. Many of the other woodworkers there (myself included) are familiar with the use of his products.

    amykath thanked Altare Design, LLC
  • 8 years ago

    Will Charles Neil blotch control work on basswood?

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    I've used it several times with basswood and General Finishes dye and have gotten good results. Do a test first, as always, because there are so many combinations and possibilities. Oops. Justiced your note is April 2018, not 2019. Oh well...maybe this will help someone in the future.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Although the original post is 6 years old, this may help someone now or in the future...

    After refinishing wood furniture for 43 years as a hobby, I took the challenge of finishing recently installed new wood casement windows. The additional challenge to accurately match both pine and red oak woods using the same custom stain was met and Charles Neil Blotch Control left the windows phenomenally consistent. Following up with ArmRSeal sold at our local Woodcraft retailer, along with personal assistance from Mr. Neil, we have achieved a professional finish to our new windows.

  • 5 years ago

    It works, if you follow instructions