I wouldn't think twice about it.

Of course it is sexist and I, too, am glad those women are protesting. We have gotten complacent again.

It doesn't offend me. I keep thinking, it’s Teakwood’s
right to create advertising as they see fit; it’s the protestors' right to
voice their opinions as they see fit; it’s the consumer’s right to shop with
the company, or not. The system is working as it should, and none of it upsets
me.

We interviewed a builder once who said something like, “You
know,” (winks at DH) “we have to let the women say what they want, and then we
build it like we want.” I think that was the shortest builder interview in the
history of mankind. I hope he figured
out a better sales approach as time went by, but even that (pretty dumb, imo)
comment was his right to try out a marketing angle that seemed like a brilliant
idea at the time.

I wasn’t really offended, and didn’t feel the need to
correct him or call him out. I just knew he was not the guy to spend our money
with. We are a married couple; there are two of us, and he was choosing to disregard half of his customer group.

It's possibly a shortcoming on my part, but I never seem to have the time or inclination to wave signs about anything.
I think I just move on to getting the next thing done that I care about.

The billboard is pretty mild stuff--not really worth more than an eye roll. I actually thought the bolded part of the comment “Your wife wants me” campaign is good-natured, tongue in cheek fun meant to appeal to women who have a sense of humor, a sense of history and healthy self-esteem. to be more insulting. I don't believe that not liking the ad indicates a lack of humor or self esteem, and resent the insinuation that it does. And the billboard probably appeals less to a woman with a sense of history, because we experienced what it was like several decades ago.

I'm not going to comment on this particular ad. I am, though, going to observe that unhelpful - even destructive - messaging about what it means to be a "man" and a "woman" is prevalent in the culture. Some good documentaries on the topic include Killing Us Softly and Miss Representation on the women's angle - and Tough Guise and The Mask You Live In on the men's side. Highly recommended viewing, really.

Ironically, in research studies individuals consistently self-report that they are not influenced by any of this advertising/marketing. They are too smart for it, see through it, etc. And yet, billions and billions of dollars are spent every year as a result of this messaging. Huh! Wonder how that happens?

Treb, the difference between the ads you mention and this one, is that those ads depict one wife and her husband who is stupid enough to change a diaper on a kitchen counter (she's worried about disinfection, while I'm on the phone to Child Protective Services) whereas this one is meant to apply to all wives. The Clorox ads are stupid; this one's sexist.

If it were a man cave ad that said, "your husband wants me" it wouldn't make me bat an eyelash, because while relying on a sexual stereotype (men want to play video games in the basement), the idea of a man cave doesn't reflect negatively on men. But the idea that women belong in the kitchen is one that lots of professional women have actually heard uttered aloud, even us young ones, and it's not funny. It's the kind of thing that threatened male colleagues try to frame as a joke, but it's meant to diminish us, and you only hear it when your chairman is in the room. And he laughs too.

Now you get it, don't you.

hi cefreeman_gw, yes it is doofi. i googled it.

i think yes and no.

my wife and i just went to a dealership to buy a pickup truck that i will be using for our business. or should i say my business. see, that just doesnt sound right. so i say our business. we sat there and i keeped saying what do you think, what do you think. it was a joint effort.

i guess we are getting into a little post drift here. when i go to a job i do look to the woman more then the man for what the project requires. the wife will discuss it with her husband and say look this is what i want, need, ive checked it out and this is what is best for us. the husband says fine that sounds good.

when ever i deal with the husband it always comes down to a competition. although everything we do in life is a competition :-). this is one contest i dont need. do i sound sexist yet.

Every family is different. There is still rampant sexism in the workplace and the government so anything that implies that the little woman belongs in the kitchen or need her husband to buy her things is problematic. This particular ad is mild in the scheme of things but such things add up to an overall poor message to put out there. This thread seems to show that in the overall scheme of things it's typically the woman making decisions on details of a new kitchen. Perhaps directing the ad to her would have been wiser. Would a man who isn't interested anyway even notice an ad for a kitchen?

Personally I've been on both sides of this fence. First time around with this kitchen I made one decision, garbage disposal on the left. I have no idea why I was even asked, I can't remember, perhaps I was just there when it came up. This time around it was all me. I haven't got a husband though (and didn't then either, my retired dad, bless him, handled the entire gut and renovation of this house) and if I did I'm sure it would be different. I certainly wouldn't sit around pouting in a crappy kitchen though if I had the will and means to replace it!

I just now remembered what that ad reminded me of! Little Ralphie putting the ad for the red rider BB gun on his mom's pillow!

eam44:

The idea that women belong in the kitchen seems quite a stretch to make here, just because women appreciate beautiful kitchens more than men. We don't assume men belong in the driver's seat because they appreciate a fast red car.

When a husband and wife are countertop shopping, generally she is looking for countertops and he thinks he is, but really he's shopping for a happy wife. Relax, dude, I've got this.

Mudhouse:
"We interviewed a builder once who said something like, “You
know,” (winks at DH) “we have to let the women say what they want, and then we
build it like we want.” I think that was the shortest builder interview in the
history of mankind."

Hehe, LOL. Hope he got it by now or he's probably out of business.

Joseph: I appreciate a fast red car way more than my husband.

Maybe my family is atypical, but DH are very similar in terms of frugality, so we don't even need to discuss budget at length. I doubt that he will ever shop for any house related items, even big
ticket items. Most of the time, I inform him or maybe let him look at
the two or three final choices.

Even when we bought our house, I did all the previewing. DH only looked at two houses, we made an offer, with the understanding that if house 1 falls through, we'd make an offer on house 2.

"when ever i deal with the husband it always comes down to a competition. although everything we do in life is a competition :-). this is one contest i dont need. do i sound sexist yet."

Actually, this is exactly what the shame research is showing in terms of societal sources of shame for men and women, perpetuated heavily in advertising. For men, it's basically one big fat loud message in all arenas: "Man up. Win. Don't be that guy they can shove into the lockers." The analogy used is shoving men into a small box. For women, shame messages are more like a web of competing expectations in various arenas, whereby even if it were possible to meet the unrealistic expectations in one arena, in doing so, one would necessarily fail in another arena., i.e., "have a beautiful home/kitchen and make healthy and delicious homemade meals for your family all the time" and "be pleasant and sweet, be accomodating as a wife and don't be money-grubbing or high-maintenance" - but simultaneously "be independent and successful in your career, please, while you are at it".

I likely wouldn't have given the billboard much attention much less thought if it popped up in my city. I think my reaction would have been that it has duel messages: to the male "your wife wants this" and to the female "you want this and you can have it".

There have been several good points made above on both sides..... but everyone is going to interpret such things through the lens of their own experiences. I have experienced the "little women belong in the home" attitudes, have had salesmen tell me to "come back with my husband" more than once, even had one window guy (from the Pella window store) refuse to set an appointment with me because I wasn't married (therefore how could I possibly afford windows for the house that I had PAID CASH for?)

This billboard didn't really evoke those experiences for me, although on reflection I see the potential for objection. The crude dehumanizing of both sexes in our entertainment/marketing culture is what gets my goat ALL THE TIME!

I think it's offensive.... almost as much as protesters are obnoxious.

I wouldn't have looked at it twice. When I saw it, I didn't have the impression it was saying women "belonged" in the kitchen, more a swaggering "your wife has the hots for me" message. And judging by a lot of what I see here, she very well might. So what? Doesn't mean she isn't bringing home the bacon "and cooking it up in the pan..." Remember that ad? I can sing it and I don't actually remember what it was for!

"When a husband and wife are countertop shopping, generally she is
looking for countertops and he thinks he is, but really he's shopping
for a happy wife."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a truly sexist statement. When we shopped for a countertop, we spent quite a bit of time wandering the isles of various yards pointing out what each of us liked/disliked. Each of us liked stone colors and patterns the other didn't. After we got through that stage, then we looked for one we both liked, having tossed out too spotty, too green, etc. In the end DH had one he truly loved and I was OK with it. Three years later that's how we still feel about it - he loves it every time he sees it and I'm fine with it. Other decisions worked the other way around, some things he cared about a bunch and some I cared about a bunch and that's the way we chose elements that ended up in our kitchen. A lot of things were, "Yup, this'll do." This "happy wife, happy life" stuff I just find insulting and demeaning to us individually and to our marriage.

Suzanne- Thank you! That last statement is more sexist than anything from the billboard.

I know from the forum that plenty of women say 'my husband wanted this granite' or 'I hope we can find a backsplash we both like' so I don't believe women are the ones making all the choices.

If that were true...we wouldn't have so many threads about couples trying to decide what they can agree on...and single people pointing out that at least they can make all the choices, because they're the only ones using the kitchen.

Maybe salespeople, who make these assumptions...are drawing clients to them that see the world in the same way.

suzanne_sl

Please read my posts more carefully. You'll notice I deliberately used the qualifier "generally" instead of "all women". The former is not sexist and is the knowledge gained from 30 years in the business; the latter would be sexist.

Of course there are men that care about countertops. We pull their man card as soon as we find out. :)

......not important enough to comment on.

"Of course there are men that care about countertops. We pull their man card as soon as we find out. :)"

And, so, there it is. The "man up" message in action. Coming publicly from a man who makes his living in countertops, no less. Cuz "real" men don't give a crap about kitchens or home decor, right? They just need a cave and a fire pit or a little woman in the kitchen or something.

Fortunately, most men who care about cooking, kitchens, counter tops and decor are evolved enough to swat such pesky he-man messages buzzing in their ears - or hang out in different circles altogether. I hope, at least. Because being a "real" man or woman ultimately is about being strong enough to be who you really are, transcending this shaming, stereotyped garbage all over the place telling us who we should be.

Because being a "real" man or woman ultimately is about being strong enough to be who you really are, transcending this shaming, stereotyped garbage all over the place telling us who we should be.

This x 1000!

I, too, cringed at the pulling the man card comment. My DH is a feminist. On numerous occasions, I have heard him stand up for strong women and arguing with neanderthal men that women should have full equal rights. I've seen him work hard campaigning for women candidates for office. I've seen him promote women over men in the workplace and ensure that they have equal pay. I've seen him be the one to refuse to work with or purchase from certain people because that clearly disrespected me and my input obviously based on gender bias. He gets it.

However, as I've been pondering this discussion, I'm starting to wonder if he secretly fears his man card getting pulled and doesn't even realize it due to his own male indoctrination. I said previously that he couldn't care less about how the kitchen or the house in general looks but the more I've been thinking about that, the more I question if that's really true. Just during our kitchen remodel, he balked at tearing down a wall for so long that I had my son help me do it. He admitted he didn't want to do it because he didn't think he'd like it...but he does. We recently finally got the fridge moved into its new niche. When he saw how it opened up the kitchen and let more light in from the window, he got excited about our remodel for the first time.

I'm also having to consider whether I'm guilty of helping him perpetuate this. You see, since he's left these types of decisions in my hands, I've enjoyed being able to make my own selections without much, if any, input from him. I suppose I've even taken advantage of that because it ensures I get my way.

I think this would make an interesting discussion over a bottle of wine. I've decided that I'm going to encourage him to be more of the selection process. It has dawned on me that he has always encouraged me to act outside my gender stereotype but I have never really returned the favor. Oh, I have on things like teaching him early on that it was safe and OK for him to cry. And he does. But not in other areas where he might need help. I think we often don't see the need to do that for the privileged group (white male) but maybe that's the wrong approach. After all, they can be boxed in, too.

I see the "man up" message there too, but when we see a smiley face after a sentence here...doesn't that imply a joke is intended? I thought it did.

Edited because I posted at the same time as funkycamper...I agree a good bottle of wine would help this conversation. I also agree that advertising designed to tell all of us who we should be (male or female) is very annoying. It's too bad it works to some degree, because as long as it works, it will always be used in the marketplace.

Can we drift the conversation over to the new Dodge ad that has that neanderthal gas monkey Richard Rawlings calling men wimps if they aren't exceeding the speed limit and doing reckless things in their testosterone scented new Dodge? Sorry, but my at speed driving is gonna be on a track, where it's at least a bit safer.

Sophie, I haven't seen that one but you reminded me of a car commercial that bugs me. They show people a photo of a guy standing in front of a pick-up and same guy in front of a small car. When he's in front of the pick-up, there are all sorts of positive responses about him; when in front of the car, all negative. It's ridiculous and, yeah, neanderthal.

funky - about 45 years ago there was a study done at UCSF on gender perception or some such. They parked a baby in a play pen right next to the reception desk on two consecutive days. On Day 1 the baby was dressed in a frilly pink dress. The passers-by said what a sweet little thing she was, so pretty, blah, blah. On Day 2 the same baby was dressed in a boy outfit. Then the passers by gave the child the "How's it hangin', dude?" approach. "He" even got some shoulder thumps. I never did hear if the child was actually male or female.

Ouch! So men who cook...do you pull their man card, too? Or men that change diapers, do laundry, load the dishwasher?

I'll let you get back to the 1950's and enjoy your day :)

"When a husband and wife are countertop shopping,
generally she is looking for countertops and he thinks he is, but really he's
shopping for a happy wife."

Respectfully, I’m kind of
scratching my head about the terribly sexist sentiment here, because I’m
honestly not seeing it. I say this as someone who operated a business making
custom items for married couples. We routinely determined, as we listened,
which spouse was driving the design details for the item. In our business it
varied. For example, custom barbecue tool orders generally were driven by the husband.
Custom kitchen pot rack orders generally were driven by the wife. (Does it make
me a sexist woman, that I noticed this?)

Sometimes, spouses worked together. Sometimes, they
disagreed to the extent the order was never placed. It was partly our job to
help them get the details worked out, so everyone’s concerns were met, the
order was placed, and the business moved forward. As part of that process, we observed
and made judgments about who was worried about design, who was worried about
price, and who could have cared less. We interacted with (and catered to) each spouse accordingly, based on our
assessment.

I really never thought of it as being sexist…I thought it
was using my experience as a business person. Honestly.

In reality we truly did see the “happy wife, happy life” scenario
play out in front of us, countless times, and also the “happy husband, happy life” scenario as
well. (Of course the latter doesn’t rhyme as well, so you won't hear it repeated!)

Jc, do you need a bigger shovel?

There is something "confirmation bias" which means that, yes, we can't trust our judgement in statistical analysis of our day to day interactions. What it means is that we notice situations that support our bias, and we amplify the times it happens in our head, and while we notice situations that are exceptions, we downplay how often it actually occurs. This is just how people's brains work and you should not feel bad about it, just recognize that your internal statistics keeping isn't accurate.

And acknowledging exceptions does not make one less sexist/racist but instead reinforces those prejudices, because you insist those can only be exceptions. Like saying" In general black people are not intelligent, but Frederick Douglass sure was the exception".

I hate the stereotyping of men as well!

So, what do you think would happen if someone did a content analysis of the threads here, for starters just regarding topics discussed and questions asked, and correlated that to gender?

Since I've always done the cooking in our household, my wife encourages me to make most of the kitchen related decisions. That's not to say we don't discuss most decisions between us; input from one's significant other can be very helpful when making such decisions.

Now my question is... to whom do I turn in my card? ;)

nosoccermom - If for instance your hypothesis was "women care more about countertop materials " and you used an analysis of a thread/s on gardenweb the issues would be are the threads representative of women's / men's attitudes in general? What if one sex prefers written communication. What if one sex prefers to analyze the data and take their time to make a decision. Are the threads representative of all races and nationalities? How about economic groups? In order to answer an hypothesis about women or men in general, you would have to control for all the variables which could account for the differences.

"Jc, do you need a bigger shovel?"

To demonstrate humorlessness? No, that's quite apparent. Thanks for asking though.

Now my question is... to whom do I turn in my card? ;)

I guess I'll have to turn mine in too and sell the Harley. I'm getting my ducks in a row to tear into the kitchen and wish I could get my wife as interested in it as I am. She wants it but I'm having a real hard time getting any input regarding cabinet style/color, countertop material/color etc. All I hear is "You go ahead and pick, you know we like the same things".

I think my next move is to start showing her some real ugly combinations, maybe that will stir her interest. :)

Lordie, Lordie! Where do I sign up for a husband that is just shopping for a happy wife when it comes to home improvement decisions?

Well, I did get to make all the decisions on the pool equipment, so I guess there is that...

When we bought our house years ago and started to renovate it bit by bit I would show my husband all of my ideas as they came up. When I showed him my idea of an all-black with silver accessories bathroom he told me to only bring him the final three choices that were actually in the running and we would discuss them. Now I don't even do that. He trusts me to, in his words, not be "silly". And no, I didn't get my all-black bathroom.

On the one hand I wish my husband would take more interest in the renovations/decorating of the house. But he really isn't interested. When I force him (and that is what it is) to come with me to look at appliances, furniture, whatever, he stands there with his arms crossed and not taking part in the conversation. His eyes start to glaze over and he just isn't interested. He trusts me to make a nice home for our family.

I suspect it was his upbringing. His mother hadn't painted her home in 35 years and the furniture was so outdated and the carpets threadbare. She just simply didn't care. An idea that is foreign to me but not up to me to judge.

Well, I did get to make all the decisions on the pool equipment, so I guess there is that...

If I would have had my way I would have filled ours in 3 years ago. I lost that battle. :)

On the one hand I wish my husband would take more interest in the renovations/decorating of the house. But he really isn't interested.

I'm not much interested in the decorating end of it but I love a good DIY project and I have a carpenter friend willing to help me out. I just need some decisions before I go willy nilly ordering cabinets and countertops I like just to find out later my wife isn't happy with them.

"The idea that women belong in the kitchen seems quite a stretch to make here..."

Treb, of course it wouldn't occurr to you to make that association! It would never have occurred to my father, it would never occur to my brother, or to any of the guys I've dated. You're a good man. I doubt you've ever hurt anyone intentionally. But not every man is a good man, and to those of us that have had a little experience with not-so-good men and their "kitchen" brand of sexism, this is a little like slapping a sunburn. I'm not going to cry about it, but I'm not asking for seconds either. Finding the ad sexist isn't the sole provenance of the humorless. Maybe you just have to stand in someone else's shoes in order to see her point of view.

Like so many other human behaviors, sexism occurs in degrees. This is not horrendous, it's just thoughtless. Makes you wonder if there was a woman in the room when they came up with that ad. That said, we're still talking about it. Maybe that's all they really care about...

I'm a woman and I think it's a stretch, eam44.

It wasn't that long ago that there was a billboard on the freeway near my house that got my blood absolutely boiling. Just as there were probably people who found that ad clever and wouldn't understand my disgust, I think the kitchen ad is clever and I don't totally get the protest.

This world is a minefield of things that offend. Just my use of the term minefield is probably offensive. I don't know. Upthread you mentioned something about calling CPS if a man changed a diaper on a counter and I felt a twinge of offense in the way you addressed that clorox commercial.

It doesn't matter to me if you get that. I don't think you need to stand in my shoes and see my POV. I'm okay with you having a different view and expressing it. I'm thankful for differing opinions and debates like this; we take it for granted, but not all people have the same freedom.

Hey Teakwood Builders, 1965 called, and they want their billboard back.

It's interesting reading all of the responses here. My take on the advertisement is this: The message is clearly aimed at married men. Think of it from the perspective of a married man. "You're wife wants me". It's a sucker punch of a statement. Designed to evoke all kinds of emotional responses and get men's adrenalin pumping. At the same time, it's promoting a material good that can be bought. It plays on men's hope that women can be wooed through gifts (and they'll get... other things in return). It may be a little sexist, but I think probably more from the perspective that underneath the humor it's sort of subversively trying to convince men that they need to buy new kitchens for their wives or her eyes might start wandering to *other* things she wants.

"You know you want me!" doesn't work, because the guy doesn't really *want* the kitchen (well, maybe he does, but those guys are already potential customers). The target of this ad are men who can be persuaded that buying a new kitchen will raise their standing in their wives eyes relative to other men.

When I saw the ad I didn't interpret it as saying the husband should buy his wife a kitchen. The way I saw it was that instead of a hunky male model in the shot, they put the kitchen.

I don't think there would be an uproar if a similar ad showing a sports car saying, "Your husband wants me" was put in its place. I don't think it would be interpreted that a wife should buy her husband a sports car he wanted because he wasn't capable of getting one himself.

Believe me, I get how this could be interpreted to be sexist. But I think it was a cheeky attempt to draw the eye and elicit a knowing smile. And it obviously didn't hit the mark.

Edited to add that this joke falls flat because it is "too soon". Not enough time has passed since the only way a woman could get anything was if her husband approved and financed it.

I find the advert completely and irredeemably materialistic. And it's holy week for Christ's sake. (who was a great teacher, but a so-so carpenter/kitchen remodeler)
Casey

"The target of this ad are men who can be persuaded that buying a new kitchen will raise their standing in their wives eyes relative to other men."

Teakwood disagrees in the article and if anyone should know to whom he is marketing, it would be him.

Joseph: <shurg> Just calling it like I see it. As this thread proves everyone has their own take.

Ha ha ha ha-the twitter responses were funny...I happily chose to stay at home, and my husband is paying for a beautiful kitchen, which *I* wanted more than him(he does not care about design either way and I spend my time in it more than him)...I suppose that is super offensive or something. Oh well! I am quite giddy about it. ;)

Honestly, I can't believe how much psychoanalysis this ad gets. Shoot me for thinking so.

Words, so many words!

In any case, the ad is so very, very unoriginal. Jaguar did something like this... on Mad Men.