Really???

I agree with wekick to investigate going down the credit card route. Other than that, all you can do is make a case for why they should buy it back and hope for the best. But no, they are not required to refund your money, either because it doesn't work or because of buyer's remorse. This would be true even if it weren't a custom color (but since it is a custom color, both Viking and the dealer are going to be even less enthusiastic than normal about taking it back). All they are required to do is provide you with a working appliance by repairing or replacing. If the product is repaired, but then fails more times and turns out to be a lemon, then your case for a buyback becomes stronger.

I would ask them about that "90 Day No Quibble Guarantee" they advertise so much. Their website doesn't go into much detail about what that actually means, but maybe they would take it back under that.

@Jakvis - Yes really. If I had bought this range at Best Buy or Home Depot or Amazon I would be able to return it no questions asked. Is it just because of the price? So you're saying that if I bought a 84" $6K TV and it didn't work or I didn't like it that I couldn't return it? I've never bought anything other than a house or a car that I couldn't return inside 30 days that was a disappointment.

What is your retailer's return policy? They may let you return it, but only if you pay a restocking fee.

@hvtech42 - Yeah thats the way I think it will go. I'll pay a 20% fee and get rid of it. :(

"I know I took a gamble on the Viking name"
yep, you rolled the dice and crapped out - you were warned though.

"new management had started to turn the company around" -
Really ? who told you this ? The press release from the firm that mgmt. hired ? What'd you expect them to say ? "we can't really figure out what's going on here, and we can't motivate the folks in Mississippi, and we really only wanted a few bits of intellectual property and the name anyway, and we've run outa tuyrd polish too."

"I would think that if I just did not like the product that they would
have to take it back since it has only been two weeks that I have had
it."

Why would you assume that ??? Just because Nordstrom and Best Buy have a no questions asked policy doesn't mean that everyone does - especially local and regional appliance stores. Furthermore, that Armani dress and Sony TV you return 29 days later don't go back to the manuf. for a credit. The stores eat that expense ! Even further - BB has changed their policies recently to curtail once liberal returns AND they track EVERY return you make ! Make too many, or a lot in a short time and even they will CUT YOU OFF from further returns - receipt or not.

I think your best avenue is the CC co., but they will prob. insist on giving a repair a chance first.

I also think your best bet is to take it up w/your cc co. My 48"df burgandy range had problems from day 1. The appliance store told me I had to deal directly with Viking, who refused to take it back. They replaced it twice and repaired it many times, but in the end we lived with a crappy, overpriced range for 12 years. Replacing this hunk of junk is the thing I am most excited about in my upcoming remodel. You should really do your best to get rid of it now if you can.

The key is to get the retailer to get Viking to take back the range and micro and give you credit for both. Then they return it to Viking, You can chose another brand.

I would go to the retailer in person, with spouse. Let me state this again: Go in person. Don't get agitated. Just keep calmly repeating what you want.

You will not get this done over the phone. You will not get this done being worried about what they will/won't do. The calling is to get them to do what you want.

Explain that you have received a brand new range and micro and both are defective. Even if it's a special order color, it is defective. It does not work. Defective goes back. You do not want a repair. You want new, functioning appliances. If they cannot immediately produce those then you want them bought back, credited and you want another brand.

If you have a large retailer with clout, this will be no problem. You don't need to have a Viking repair person come out because you can made a video of the problems and send that to the retailer and the company.

The point is, these are new appliances and repairs are not an option.

You were warned, as xedos said. I personally have posted warnings dozens of times, literally. I am still getting rid of these mistakes and trust me it is more expensive to do it down the line than to do it initially.

If the retailer is not responsive and responsible, the other remedies are the credit card company and the state attorney general.

Yes - viking can refuse to give you a refund.

Viking will repair or replace your product – no questions asked –
in the unlikely event you have a service call within the first 90 days
of purchase due to a manufacturing defect.

See the following web link for details. http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/category/products/3-year-signature-warranty

Also contact the CEO of the company. Here is a recent quote from a recent press release from Feb. 2014.

“I have personally, along with the team at Viking, sought input from dealers, end users, engineers and builders both domestically and internationally to develop
innovation that directly applies to the daily kitchen needs,” said Selim A. Bassoul, Chairman and CEO of The Middleby Corporation, parent company of Viking
Range. “We have restructured Viking over the past year to create an environment for new ideas, excited people and great energy. We stand behind Viking
product. Quality drives us. So much so that we now offer the Viking Signature 3 Year Warranty and a 90 Day No Quibble Guarantee.”

Best of luck to you. Please let us know how it turns out.

LOL - first 90 days? Shouldn't they repair or replace the product if there is a service call... any time within the warranty period?

That's what I was talking about earlier - what makes that 90 day period different from the rest of the warranty? Will they only repair (not replace) the product after those 90 days?

The way I read it is during the first 90 days it doesn't matter whether the problem was a defect or something the owner may have done, it will either be fixed or replaced. Notice they don't say refund your money, nor do they say that the replace or fix is at the owner's discretion.

I had been looking at a Viking induction range that has been hugely discounted because the store has decided to stop carrying the brand. If that wasn't enough of a hint for me, this will seal the deal for a different brand.

I sure hope you get it resolved.

"Viking will repair or replace your product – no questions asked – in the unlikely event you have a service call within the first 90 days of purchase due to a manufacturing defect"

I don't understand maybe. Both appliances aren't working. Okay, that's pretty bad.

But Viking is sending out a repairperson to see what can be done and that is why you'd like to return them? Is there a step that I missed? It sounds like they're doing what they should do.

Viking will always send a tech out to confirm. This is to make sure they aren't taking thing back because the customer has a gas line issue or some other improper installation. Give them a chance to repair it. If they cannot sort the issue in a timely fashion, then talk to your retailer to exercise the No Quibble policy.

The website points to the complete terms and conditions of the Viking warranty being in the Use and Care Manual. It seems that the 90 day warranty applies to cosmetics, and during that period they won't quibble over who made the scratch, for example, or am I missing something? From the manual of the induction range (which is the appliance I like): "FULL NINETY (90) DAY COSMETIC WARRANTY: Product is warranted to be free from cosmetic defects in materials or workmanship (such as scratches on stainless steel, paint/porcelain blemishes, etc.) for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of original retail purchase or closing date for new construction, whichever period is longer. Any defects must be reported to the selling dealer within ninety (90) days from date of original retail purchase. Viking Range Corporation uses high quality processes and materials available to produce all color finishes. However, slight color variation may be noticed because of the inherent differences in painted parts and porcelain parts as well as differences in kitchen lighting, product locations, and other factors."

Well, it means Viking endorses the crappy quality of the WM oem vendor. It is as if the WM is from one production line at Viking since its quality meets Viking's standard. If Viking has no problem with it, and it is Viking's problem.

I hated my Viking cooktop, but that's not the point either. The OP asked whether Viking can refuse a refund, and the answer is yes, unless they promised one, or the product cannot be repaired. (FWIW, no retailer is obligated to take returns "just because", they do it for competitive reasons, a almost all custom work is not returnable unless it's defective).

Some work is not "returnable " at all, end of story.

Has no bearing on this case.

I agree that bo61 has an acute case of buyers remorse and wants mommy to make it right.

I agree that bo61 should reasonably expect a working range out of the box especially from a premimum brand and one that invented the catagory.

I think that given said brand's track record and new structure - anyone who buys their products and does not accept the very real possibility that they could have problems and that it will be a PIA to resolve them is wearing rose colored glasses and deserves the martyr status they signed on for.

I think in any negotiation ( warranty claim) , one should try to get the maximum amt. they can. I think that any negotiator that doesn't expect the other party is going to try and extract the best outcome for himself , is a fool. Win/Win is sales weasel school horse pucky. The SoHN teaches that a good compromise is when neither side gets all that they want, which is a win for neither. It's a draw that allows both to fight again another day.

Even under Magnuson-Moss, the manuf. gets chances to repair the unit .

That's a lot of money to lose if you have to replace these pieces!

Have you looked into legal options to recover your loss if the appliances can't be fixed?

If the appliances can't be fixed, Viking will be obligated to either refund her money or replace the product. The initial question was whether she could insist on a refund without giving Viking the chance to fix the product. You're getting ahead of the situation.

You're misinterpreting my response, which wasn't directed at you. Read- "IF".

Now, if smtebo61 could weigh in...

Repair person will be here Wednesday (only day they come to the area). Will see what they say. Will also be at the retail store first thing Monday morning to talk with the owner and if there is any way to find a compromise with the situation.

Needless to say we are extremely frustrated with not being able to use the oven and not being able to read the convection microwave panel to accurately gauge what and for how long we are cooking something.

For those of you offering positive comments and suggestions thank you. For those of you suggesting I am being emotional and want 'mommy' to make it right, put yourself in my shoes for a moment.

Btw, my mom is gone too and if she were here she'd say 'do what you think is right...' Not what the neighbors think...

Thanks again

Keep us updated, please. Of course it's emotional, but that doesn't mean you're not being rational!

I'd be seething mad. I do hope Viking can make this right, whatever that might mean.

What dictates is the local applicable consumer protection legislation and the agreement of purchase and sale. Almost assuredly the contract has a provision that dictates that singing for receipt confirms the product is in good working order. That does not end the matter, bit it is something .

Note no merchant is obligated to refund money

Concerning buyers remorse, it is entirely natural and foreseeable, especially for an expensive and elite product.

Dirty little secret : elite products cost more than. Mid range products and are often not as good. The manufacturer of high end products does not have the economies of scale to produce quality at good prices. Toyota and Honda make more reliable cars than a British or Italian super car maker could hope to make. But Honda and Toyota will never be as elite as European super cars.

But, if you buy an Italian sports car thinking you will not be lonely on a Friday night, you will be out a lot of money and sadly disappointed. Either you still do get dates, and when you do, they may be more into the car than you.

It makes sense that if one were out $8,000 that they would be disappointed.

An elite oven is nothing more than a mid grade oven at twice the price and half the reliability

oh oh, I hear "it" coming^^^^^^^^

Gary

I guess what I can't understand is signing for delivery equalling acknowledgement of the unit being in good working order.

Sure, you can inspect for superficial damage and defect, but the buyer has no way of knowing if it works until it's installed, so I don't get how that can be binding when it's not possible.

I don't believe Viking has to take back the range unless they can not fix it in a reasonable time frame. Signing for the range does not mean that it is operable, it just signifies that there is no visible damage. Your best bet is if the repair man comes and says it'll take 3 weeks for parts or something, then you could call your retailer and ask for a refund and if they refuse call your credit card to initiate a chargeback. I don't really understand Vikings 90 day guarantee...it says that if you have a problem within 90 days they will repair or replace the unit; can the customer simply request a replacement? If not, it is no different than the warranty.

I think someone explained (up above) that the 90-day warranty is different because it applies without question to surface damage - even if you scratch it, they won't question the cause, and will fix it or replace it. Replacement is "always" at the discretion of the manufacturer - read your warranty. I put "always" in quotes, because I'm sure there's some outlier out there and I don't want to be accused of exaggerating. As for a chargeback on your credit card, seriously, the credit card company is not going to support the consumer who won't wait 3 weeks for parts, frustrating as it may be.

Part of the warranty being applicable to the appliance is the consumer ensures that a correct installation takes place, and that none of the issues are due to an incorrect installation. Practically speaking, that means no DIY install unless you are a licensed gas fitter or an employee of an appliance store with the prerequisite certifications.

Repair is always the first option under warranty. Replacement is only on the table should several attemps be made that were not successful to repair. And even then, it's up to the manufacturer's judgement as to whether the repair attempts constitute ''enough'' to qualify for replacement. Any credit card company will want to see a good faith effort incurred to work with the written conditions of the warranty before they will initiate a chargeback.

Buying an appliance is marrying it. No-fault divorce doesn't exist as an option under today's warranties. Your remedy if you marry a lout isn't going to be a quick and easy annullment. It's a long messy divorce that you only hope you have the stamina to deal with. The best option always is to marry the right choice in the first place rather than taking a chance on the maybe maybe not reformed badboy.

@smtebo61......I appreciate your post along with the experiences posted by others who have purchased Viking products. I know one thing....I will never buy a Viking appliance. A friend of mine is looking for a new range and was considering Viking. After reading this post and many others on Garden Web, Chowhound, etc....she is not buying a Viking either. I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction.

I like the marriage analogy and I don't have the patience for a long messy divorce. The problem was when I spent weeks doing research EVERY single make had its detractors. Didn't matter if it was Viking, Wolf, Bluestar, Capital or whoever else. Surf through the web and on this site and you will find people who have had problems and loathe each and every model. If I could have found one model that was universally lauded and did not cost 30K I would have considered it but they do not exist.

At this point I have already been 3 weeks with out an oven or microwave and the repairman is coming this Wednesday. Who knows it if it will be fixed this time or if parts will be needed. Either way I will press for a refund and if I exhaust all avenues to that end I will sell it on Craigslist or Ebay after it's been 'fixed'. I am not waiting around for the next malfunction.

Life is too short and cooking such a part of my life to be walking on egg shells waiting for the next breakdown. We entertain often and I will not worry every time I have a dinner that my oven will fail. I'd rather sell an Almost New Viking to someone for $1000 less than I paid and hope they are luckier than I.

Um, Craigslist prices start at 50% of selling price and rapidly go down from there for new, never used. Ebay will be slightly higher, but you would have to deal with arranging shipping, i.e. crating and LTL with a liftgate. It might be your ultimate end move, but please don't think you would recoup anything significant from going that route. A better approach might be to donate to a H4H ReStore where you could take the tax deduction and they could get a higher price at sale to benefit their housing programs.

@smtb061...I agree with your approach wholeheartedly. I decided to go with Wolf because I felt comfortable with the service I would be provided in my area. Bluestar and Capital do not have a strong service presence in my area. One of the appliance stores I called is no longer carrying Bluestar because they had too many negative experiences working with them. They lost confidence in the companies willingness to stand behind their product. Their experience is Wolf's customer service is the best. Based on the research I have done, Wolf has nowhere near the number of customer complaints that Bluestar and Viking has. I don't expect not to have issues either. All I want is good customer service in the event I do have an issue.

Sometimes too much information is a bad thing. I have this XC-90 Volvo SUV. It chews up tires - every 30,000 miles. I looked at many tire sites. Every tire is the same - 50% think it's great, and 50% think it's awful.

As another poster said: "You are marrying the appliance". And she it correct. You are committed to work things out with the manufacturer. It this way with all big purchases.

If an appliance arrives defective, the marriage may be annulled. That's the issue here. The hinge is whether the retailer will go to bat for the consumer and facilitate the buy back. A smart retailer, like the one I had, knows they can get rid of a problem, sell another product and keep the customer's goodwill.

The OP doesn't want to be held hostage by an oven that is highly likely to fail even after it is repaired. I think that's smart.

She'd be far ahead even if she donated the range to Habitat, took a tax deduction, and got something that worked for her. No one is committed to working anything out with an appliance company unless they choose to. She's voting with her feet.

It's easy to sit in your chair and tell some stranger online how it's going to go for them. It's quite another thing to DIY. This thread would be far more constructive if everyone was figuring out how to help her get the result she wants -- which is very clear -- instead of telling her why she needs to compromise when that's not likely to happen.

Manufacturers usually only buy stuff back due to

a) A history of repeated issues with the same unit

or

b) The customer is unsatisfied with the performance of the product when it is officially working properly

Neither is the case here.

"If an appliance arrives defective, the marriage may be annulled"

According to whom? I don't think Viking or the retailer would agree with that, and they're the ones calling the shots. If an appliance arrives defective, it must be repaired or replaced until it is no longer defective. That's the only rule (other than state lemon laws if applicable). When necessary, manufacturers will go above and beyond the rules to make a reasonable customer happy.

The local consumer protection act applies, and almost assuredly it does not mandate that vendors take back a product or issue a refund. Note this however the retailer may be open to exchange for credit, it is probably not mandated by law that they do so, and you may still be subject to a restocking fee, but will almost assuredly not happen is you getting your money back. The law does not mandate that the vendor does so. But you did bargain for working appliances, so under contract they need to get them to work but that is the limit of what the vendor really needs to do.

It stinks - really, really really stinks -to be out $8,000 and have nothing work, especially if you were instead out $4,000 and bought mid- level across the board you would probably have perfectly fine working appliances, such as top of the line Jenn Air, Electrolux, GE Monogram, Kitchen Aid, Bosch etc. (More or less, at the high end, the equivalent of a Jaguar or Mercedes etc and a Lexus or Infiniti a step bellow that.) There is no shortage of appliance manufacturers competing against one another at that lower price point, and almost assuredly the quality of the build is superior and the costs of the repairs are lower than the high -end products, or the Aston Martin or Maserati finicky super -car.

I think this is more than a cautionary tale concerning Viking, but perhaps all high end producers. There is nothing wrong with a Lexus. And Lexus is arguably the world's best made car.

When it comes to the high end stuff, in my view, brand name is often associated with some lifestyle- marketing, and not build quality (And I would stand by that statement across the board on all products, not just appliances)

Lucky for me, I cannot afford a Viking! I am forced to spend no more than $3,000 on an oven, and be stuck with something that is perfectly fine and works as expected! (And yes, I charge right to the scratch and dent and discontinued show- room model section!)

A Happy Morning! Got a phone call from a Viking VP today. He was very nice and very apologetic for the issues I have had. He offered to try to fix the microwave and oven or refund my full purchase price. He stated that their "No Quibble" policy means just that, that they want to do whats best for their customer. Period.

He's arranging to have the items picked up ASAP, he wished me luck with my new kitchen, whoever I purchased from and he hoped that in the future when the time came to redo the kitchen again that I might consider reviewing Viking's products at that time because the new management team is committed to putting Viking back on top of the high end gas range market.

Needless to say I am thrilled and even though I am returning the products, I've done a 180 on my opinion of Viking. They may still need to work some kinks out, but they stand by their product and thats a corporate philosophy that means a great deal to me and should to other prospective buyers as well.

Thanks for the constructive advice that I received here. It was invaluable to solving my problem. You guys are great!

@bo61....Yeahhhhh!! I am so happy for you!!!! That is awesome! You can't beat that type of great customer service.

Have you decided what manufacturer to purchase a new range from?

I too , am glad that it's resolved for you.

I'm also glad to hear that Viking actually makes good on their no quibble pledge.

But, I do have to say they could have saved themselves a lot of neg. publicity if they had informed their dealers and even their own in house support staff that they'll take back their products no questions asked in the 90 days .

They'd have gotten a lot of goodwill for the same cost by just coming to pick up bo61's range when asked. Shame it took a weeks worth of internet ranting and a VP level decision to ACTUALLY make reality live up to the advertising .

Hey , it's a start the right direction guys.

Wow, you don't hear about appliance manufacturers doing that very often. Even with one of the manufacturers known for good customer service (SubZero/Wolf) I would be surprised if they did that. That is good to hear, this is the kind of thing that Viking really needs to be doing to improve their reputation. Hopefully they will be able to deliver on product quality as well.

@charon70 - Thank you! I'm going with a 36" Bluestar (I believe with the French Plaque).

That is great! I've always wondered about companies that think they can get away with terrible customer service (airlines) vs. those whose customer service is fantastic (Zappos). The latter will almost always get my business.

@smtebo61 -- Good on you! And fingers crossed for you on the next round.

There's a lesson here people. So much for the conventional wisdom. No one is marrying any appliances they don't want.

Well, yes and no. The original question wasn't "Will Viking refund my purchase?", it was "Can they refuse to refund my purchase?" The answer to the original question remains "yes they can, so long as they can fix what's broken". The fact that they stood up and agreed to refund the purchase is a different matter, the lesson learned is that you don't know until you ask.

I hope in many of their detractors eyes this reflects positively on Viking. The fact that they could have pushed service, and did not is a pretty encouraging step. I know some of the issues they have had but given our more recent experiences, we are very hopeful as a Viking retailer that those issues are being resolved. Best of luck on the next range purchase!

I'm very pleased to hear of this outcome, @smtebo61! And credit is due to Viking for making this right. If the new management is as serious as they've shown you to be, then they're right in track in building consumer confidence.

Now if they could only get simmer to work LOL