see link for potential

link

once established .... these plants do 3 to 5 feet per year in my MI sand ... so it wont take long for you not to be able to prune for shape or size.. unless you are willing to buy a bucket truck ..

i cant see any markers in the first pix ... i would not worry about the crabapple ... as it will probably be dead.. before the pine starts to affect it ...

ken

SVT, as Ken alluded to, pruning and "shaping" such a tree as white pine is mostly not practical. OK I'm sure there's somebody doing it-reducing candle (new growth) length yearly, etc. etc......but I seriously doubt that's what you're signing up for, nor should you be, IMO. The beauty of such trees is mostly in their natural growth form.

I think you have room. Just realize-you're planting the very tree which was the reason for Paul Bunyan, lol.....a true forest giant. I like such things, even in cities if well placed, but do realize, a 100 ft. height is child's play for eastern white pine. And it doesn't take them forever to get there.

BTW, The SVT is a very famous bass amplifier. I happen to have played bass all over the country up until about 7 years ago. Is that, perchance, the meaning behind your tag?

+oM

Thanks all. SVT stands for Special Vehicle Team. they are the performance division of Ford. I own a 2003 SVT Mustang Cobra with 12k miles on it. This 2003 Cobra was nicknamed Terminator because it destroyed the competition in its class...at that time of course.

I want to let them grow but just don't want any issues from the neighbor. I prefer the natural growth.

I also have clay soil here so I'm assuming the tree wont grow as fast or big...is that accurate?

I'll go take a better picture of thr marker in the first pic Ken.

Too close to the crab, too close to the patio, too close...

Picture them many times the size they are now, including the spread.

Here's the pictures of the orange flag

As alluded to previously this is one of the largest eastern North American species. Is that what you want there? As much room as you have now, these will need a lot of it in time.

I really want something big but I also wonder how long it will take to get very large in heavy clay soil. For example to get 40 feet in width approximately many years will that take? I know there are countless factors that could affect that.

I live in an area with large numbers of white pines. I love them in the right place, but I am not sure that a suburban development, even with large lot sizes, is the right place. They tend to be messy, not just the needles and cones, but globs of pine pitch get on clothes, vehicles, etc. and are hard to remove. They tend to lose more large limbs during ice and wind storms than other trees, and if they are in wet or shallow soils, I have seen ones tipped over in their entirety with the shallow fan of roots ripped right out of the soil after a combination of heavy ice or wet snow and wind. During winter storms, white pines are often responsible for power outages.

White pines tend to be tall and somewhat narrow with few limbs near the ground, even when grown in open ground IME, though often ones grown in the open end up with two growing tips. Heights get to well over 100 feet, and while most of mine may max out at 40 feet wide, because of the trees' structure most of the branches aren't as long as that. IME wet (short of standing water) or clay soil doesn't slow down white pines and may even speed their growth.

In all honesty, as someone who lives with many white pines (none of which are near my house) I would choose a different tree for that spot.

Thanks for your input NHBabs. The tree will be planted away from my driveway and parked cars. I guess I just can't fathom this tree getting so large. I've never experienced super fast/large growth in my 3 years of landscaping. :)

Glad you pointed out that you've seen these pines grow well in clay soil. I almost want to plant it and give it a shot versus having to pay someone to help me return them back to Home Depot. I already paid $60 for the delivery to my house. But then again I know it's better to be safe than sorry.

Well good to have all opinions as some others said it would be fine in the locations.

I'm quite lost as what move I should make next. Plant or return....

by the way NHBabs...do you have any pictures of your white pines?

If you really want white pines, you'll certainly have 20 years or so before they put on a great deal of size. Perhaps you already know this, but the pines shown in the photos have been repeatedly sheared to create the classic Christmas tree shape. Once planted, maintaining this shape will become more and more difficult over time. Unless they do not exist in the Chicago area - highly doubtful - the larva of the pine shoot tip moth or a similar insect will pretty inevitably attack the central leader. This will cause another leader to form which will in turn be attacked, etc. Thus pretty quickly you will have multiple leaders or their remnants and no Christmas tree shape. That's why, along with no shearing, white pines in the wild look nothing like the ones you've purchased.

OK, so no "Super Valve Technology" bass amp! I can live with that. Maine's points needed to be said-if you thought the tree was going to stay like that sheared thing you bought-I didn't even notice that before-it won't, although I don't think that's what you're after. Clay shmay-we've got em in every soil type, drainage condition, you name it-this is simply not a fussy plant. Here's another thought: You're kind of stuck right now. Why don't you go ahead and plant the tree, enjoy it, and if you're still there in twenty years, reevaluate? At that stage, it will certainly have grown, but not so much that it will be a great difficulty to drop it if it looks like it's going to get away on you. Plant it, enjoy, it, let it reestablish its normal, tiered branch appearance, and then forget about it for ten or twenty years!

+oM

Thanks for that post +oM. That's exactly what I'll do. If it gets too large down the road and who knows where life may tae me at that point I'll take it down Paul Bunyan style!

A closer view could be worthwhile, particularly coming from a big box these could turn out to be a cultivar or another species entirely. Another chain here has been displaying a dark, columnar cultivar of P. strobus along with the customary 'Smaragd' arborvitaes this season - as dark and dense as yours look in these shots I have to wonder if these are more of same or similar. The comments made so far refer to typical, giant- and open-growing P. strobus - and not to compact, narrow or slow variants being circulated as named garden forms.

Here's a Picture upclose

I can't tell if it's a cultivar or straight species. Most def. been sheared, and as Ken points out, that is not its natural growth form. Personally, I think you're set!

+oM

svtt - Here are a few photos just taken around my house as per your request. To my eye, they are fairly typical of the wild white pines we see around here. All of our soil is geologically speaking new - post glacial lacustrian (lake) sediments, so relatively nutrient poor and without NH's typical granite bedrock.

These are between the farm field and the river bank, so have had good sun and haven't been logged. Soil for these is well-drained, acid fine sandy loam. You may be able to see that the tallest one on the right of the row of tall ones has a forked trunk, typical of open grown trees. These are large enough that we see eagles perched in them on occasion.

These are in an area that isn't as well drained, though similar soil. It's underlain about 6'-8' down with a clayish layer that impedes drainage. This area was logged just before we bought it ~19 years ago, so the taller ones are older and the smaller ones grew up after the logging I think, though they may be as much as 10 years older. This was an active dairy farm until sometime in the 40's or perhaps early 50's and so the big ones may date to when this was growing up from farm fields. White pines are one of the first trees to take over old fields around here, along with aspen and cherry.

More river-bank trees with the smaller ones on the right typical of old field growth, densely packed together and slow-growing.

and here's a big old bear of a tree with a forked trunk, DBH around 2 1/2'.

And for contrast, in the foreground is a spruce that the PO planted in the middle of the field, rather less wild looking and more conventionally ornamental. In the background is the row of old trees along the river bank, and in between (just to the left of the spruce) is a pair of young white pines growing together just about at the age when they start losing the lower branches.

Thanks NHBabs. Very helpful photos. I'm going to dig tomorrow and plant these jumbos. From the pics the pines look to have more top height versus a wider spread. Is that accurate? They do not seem to be a dense on their extensions from the side shoots.

You are correct that they are far taller than wide ultimately and IME largely without lower branches, though young trees grow wide almost as fast as tall in an open location like yours. Once they have some size, they are not particularly dense, but open grown young trees will be denser as seen in the last photo. As AKAmainegrower suggested earlier today, trees growing in the open are susceptible to bugs that kill off the main leader and cause multiple leaders, at least in parts of New England where these trees are a major part of the forest. If you don't want that (more damage likely in bad weather as it ages) you will need to keep an eye on it annually to be sure to trim off extra leaders.

Interesting points NHBabs. I'm excited to get these robust ladies into the ground. I will post again in the future about leaders and pruning the extra ones.

Planted the pines yesterday. One was a bit lopped sided but I fixed it after this picture. Thanks everyone for your help.

The eastern white pines are showing signs of transplant shock but the one in this pic seems far worst. Is it normal for leader to show browning as well?

no its not.. its usual that all else is sacrificed to save it ...

have the buds elongated yet ... on these.. but also in the area in general????

the problem with large transplants ... is that they are field grown ... and then raped from mother earth .. and jammed in a pot.. easily 90 to 95% of the roots are removed ... some just dont make it ... due to such abuse ...

all you can do.. is keep it properly watered... and see if it buds out ..

ken

Took another look and in comparison to the other pine I planted at the same time this one looks like it has much lesser buds. I do see some signs of life hope it makes it if not I'll ulitize home depots 1 year return policy. :)

Your right on how this tree grows thru a lot of shock. If this passes I'll look at a reputable nursery near me.

Here is an update on the pine. More browning than before and in comparison to the other pine planted in the back this looks pretty bad. Is there any chance for IT to make it?

Below are pics of the pine that's doing great and both were planted at the same time

Certainly less vigor than the good one. Doesn't absolutely mean failure but it may well take longer to "come around". If you can tolerate a less than spectacular appearance for a bit longer-say mid summerish-you may as well continue to wait and see. But following that, if still not at least somewhat perked up, and I'm talking about new growth, not old brown needles magically re-greening, all hope is lost, lol! I mean, a replacement will be warranted.

+oM

Sounds good thanks for taking a look. I sure am patient and will wait it out. Do you think I should add one Jobe fertilizer tree spoke to give it a boost?