Thanks! I will wait to trim, then. I’ll be patient!

If they both produce invisible flower buds in July-August, then considering
the die-back, I will probably have no flowers this year.

I never saw flowers on Alice,
but the nursery did tell me they trim them back to keep them compact.

“Twist and Shout” was so pretty in bloom I went back and bought a second
one. It had buds when I bought it / them. With my soil they will be pink rather
than blue: but I don’t need blue. The pink was a lovely shade, and flower form
was really nice.

I don’t remember any fall coloron Twist and Shout. And I was hoping for
that, so I think I would have noticed. But considering one was planted in late
June (I think ) and the other later in the summer, maybe last year was not
typical. I have not noticed red stems at
all either! I do have to walk right past the plants to get to my back yard, so
I don’t think I would have failed to notice.

Ah, Alice. Oh, Alice. Oh, poor Alice.... Hee hee hee. I tried an Alice too, about two years ago, so let me warn you not to let it get its feet wet for long periods of time. Oakleafs are notorious for getting root rot if the roots are allowed to get wet and stay wet for long periods. Mine probably died for that reason.

It did very well for two-three years and on its next year, we hit one of these El Nino or La Nina Weather Events that deluged my area with torrents of water multiple times a week all Spring long and most of the Summer. What could I do then??? Can't fight Mother Nature. Needless to say, it did not stand a chance. I had to redo the yard to correct those problems and I am now planting smaller oakleafs instead (Alice can get 10' over here and that is too much shaded real estate in my sunny yard). That problem was more than 5 years ago and we have not had that much rain since.

I really like the blooms of Endless Summer's T&S! I bought one 3Gallon plant last year and had a lot of blooms on new wood....but being in z5 (Canada)....most of them came near the end of July (not June/July as I had hoped).

This year I too have a lot of dieback on my T&S....more so than my Original....perhaps my Original is better sited as it is against the fence and my T&S is in the open? I have very few buds leafing out from old branches....looks like they have survived our below freezing temps (which they have had to endure for the last 3 nights).

Just as Luis said....which I trust his opinion entirely....as always....I too will delay cutting those "dead" looking branches until mid/end of May.

Luis.....the "reddish" branch and leaves....hmmm....I don't remmber it being very red....my ninebark has way better colour than T&S. Perhaps it is because of my z5 weather (short summer)....fall arrived too abruptly for the reddish colour to develop properly?

Well, I do not have one but remember that one of its "parents" was Lady In Red and since LIR has reddish stems, I was curious how the T&S Stems were. Obviously the stems were not that red, hu? Oh well. Glad to know you two like your T&Ss. Say, I was just wondering... in your cold zones, when do you get reblooming from T&S? Only in July-ish? Any reblooms after that July show? Just wondering since I do not know when your cold weather arrives in the Fall and makes the hydrangeas go dormant, specially up there in Canada.

TS has some dieback but is generally reliable here and more sun will make it redder. LIR is huge easily 5 by 6 and no dieback either of the last 2 winters-easily the hardiest mac of the 60 that I have! Bloomstruck is still small and yery little die back

From what I remmember, the blooms were still forming up until fall! I saw 4-5 small brocolli at the end of some stems when I was cutting off the dead flowers (this spring). Perhaps if summer here in Canada could be a little longer....wishing on my part...we might get even more blooms?

Red stems....hmmm....I may have to look at them more closely this year and report back to you Luis!

Thanks for all the input. I'm pretty new to the more exotic hydrangeas, so it's all new to me. I'm sorry to hear that my Alice might not survive wet feet. Some years we do have torrential rains. I had a lot of things that rotted late last spring, but that was before the hydrangeas were planted.

Well, it may still be fine. If the soil drains well, it will not be "wet" for long periods. In my case, I have clay soil, the long period lasted from March through part of July and the yard had areas where the water made puddles easily. Now it does not but I knew the oakleaf was in trouble when it was in the middle of these puddles of water. Unfortunately, it was so rainy and busy with work that I did not go outside much and did not notice the problem until it was too late.

I have an Alice in year 3 and it just seems to be a slow starter. Slow to leaf out, that is. But it does eventually, and even though the deer eat most of the buds while dormant, I still like the foliage. Each year it puts out new sucker shoots at the base, so the diameter of the plant will ultimately increase if not the height.

Since, I've gotten Snow Queen and Ruby Slippers and they're already ahead of Alice in growth output rate (not total growth).

As it happens, I ran across the tag for the second oak leaf I planted after Alice:
it was actually Ruby Slippers, not Alice. It was my intention to buy the same
again, so that’s what I remembered erroneously. I think the selection must have
been low, and I picked the best looking oak leaf that would have fall color in
the size range I was looking for.

So comparisons between the 2 are welcome, SpringwoodGardens . Both are listed as “fast
growers”; I hope that will be true. The Alice
in particular is meant to fill a big hole in the landscaping. How do they
define “fast,” I wonder?

It’s like 2 weeks after my original posting, and each are showing a bit of
green. Tiny leaf buds, only a couple per plant, and all from either the bottom
2 inches of the plant, or completely from the base. The most sheltered Twist
and Shout (the last planted) has the most, seemingly coming from underground. I’m not going to prune any dead wood until
every bud has had a chance to show that it’s alive.

Hydrangeas aren’t grafted are they? So what comes from under will be true to
variety?

RB is going to be a compact shrub that is nowehre near a large oakleaf like Alice. RB may get to 4' down here and Alice can get 8-10' here. These are commercial nursery estimates at 10 years of age. Obviously, Alice is better if you are trying to fill out a large space. Oakleaves sometimes can have a loose some leaves near the bottom. With Alice this may be obvious since it is a much taller plant. They both start white but turn to different shades of pink so it would be great if you can find both in bloom so you can judge by yourself if you like these shades of pink or if you like one above the other. Hydrangeas are normally not grafted. I have a protected oakleaf that is blooming and an unprotected RB that leafed out a month ago or more but is showing no signs of the broccoli stage. Oh-oh. A protected lacecap started blooming as of Sunday.