I'm not expert but my guess is you can keep it pretty small by pruning but I don't think it will ever be as productive as a dwarf or semi dwarf. I'm betting it also would take a lot longer to bear a decent crop.

What is your ideal "dwarf" size? Dwarf for you and me could be a few feet difference! Pruning will help but pruning a standard apple down to 8 ft will be a challenge.

Pruning apple is not as easy or forgiving as pruning peach. I have tried to learn for the past few years. Prune it incorrectly, you may delay or loose fruit production for that year.

I do not mean to discourage you. Just want to let you know what to expect.

I think you will be fine, just have to be sure to keep up with the pruning. I've been told when it reaches the max height that you want you should bend the leader over and hang a weight or otherwise tie it down. This somehow signals the tree to stop growing taller and works much better than just pruning. For a healthy tree that needs less or no spraying, you want deep wide roots, and the best way to get that is to use 111 or standard stock. Very important for organic growing... Also some will say it will take 8 to 10 years for a standard stock to fruit but I have not found this to be true - seen them firsthand fruit in the 3rd year.

Greetings:

I too have the same issue as I chip budded some apple varieties onto sproutfree rootstock. I wanted to bud onto M7 but could not get them at the time.

To keep the trees small, I thought I would try a tip I heard about from tall spindle apple growing. I tied down the scaffolds to horizontal or less and just as promised, the following year those branches had flower buds.

My hope is that by letting the trees come into bearing early, and pruning to a vase or open center I can keep the trees short. Their width is no concern for me. I just don't want them growing over 15' tall or I can't spray,pick or prune them easily.

Time will tell but I was fascinated after tying down the bottom scaffolds last June that they would flower on me this spring. I hope to taste some of those apples this fall. I will definitely be bending down some more branches this June.

Greetings again:

I just realized I had a shot of an old McIntosh apple tree that I want to share. The present homeowner has been there a long time. He says the trees were old when he moved in. These are old standard apple trees that were vase pruned for height control. Whomever the original grower was, he/she did a fabulous job training the trees to be short. The central leader was removed at 30" height from the ground and the tree was vase pruned. The height of the trees is about 7' tall.

Looks great, how is the fruit production?

Seven feet? That puts those elec wires ten feet.

tim45

Sorry for the delay in responding. I too was perplexed after reading your comment. I recall the tree being only 7' tall. I took the shot a few years ago and used it for a apple growing lecture I gave.

Late yesterday I drove by this tree while making a delivery. Since the road has no shoulder and my truck was very large, I could not stop to take a new photo.

What I found is that the tree still is about 7' tall. The issue is the power line in my photo. The power poles have 3 sets of lines on them! The lowest line is perhaps 15'-16' (estimated) above ground. That is the line shown in my original picture. The higher two lines do no show in my shot.

Trees like this one amaze me. Grown on a standard rootstock yet someone years ago was able to prune to keep the size manageable. If I ever get about 30 miles from where I live, I will take another shot of some very old Cortland trees on standard. I picked off those trees in the late 1970's. They also were heavily vase pruned so the center was 7'-8' tall. The branches went outward and then pruned downward so the shape was a perfect mushroom. The branch tips were 3' from the ground. It was a pleasure to pick from such trees. The original family still owns the site as I saw their last name proudly displayed on a plaque by the road. Most old standard apples I come across are 25'-30 tall yet these few are real exceptions and a testimony to someone who knew how to use pruning to compensate for the lack of a dwarfing rootstock.

But is it treu that the production will be less than a dwarf of the same size?

Dave:

I do not see why. Personally I have not seen the McIntosh harvested from the tree in the photo. The homeowner mentioned to me that some years he has a great crop and not so on others. My guess would be biennial bearing might be the issue. Some of my apple trees do that too.

It is true that dwarfing rootstocks come into bearing sooner than standard rootstocks. It is also true that some apple varieties bear bigger fruit on some dwarfing rootstocks than others. However, no reason for a standard tree to bear less than a dwarf of the same size at least at the size this tree is. It is a very wide tree.

"Seven feet? That puts those elec wires ten feet." The tree is clearly closer to the camera than those elec wires. Can you take another pic of this tree with leaves/apples on it? Like you, I am inspired by this tree. I would love to try doing that with some of mine... I also wonder what it looks like from above? Was there once a big central leader that someone just hacked off at some point? How did the tree heal from that? I'm wondering how to go about doing this exactly.

Darren:

The central leader seems to have been cut when the tree was about 30" tall. There is no big leader hacked off at an advanced age. I will try to get back soon for a photo with the tree in leaf. I am attaching a 2nd shot of the tree taken same time as the above shot posted but at at different camera angle.