Cory, thank you! I don't know why I didn't think of amazon. I was searching some online specialty garden stores but the shipping cost was too high.

I just checked amazon and found the manna pro chicken grit 5lb bags($12) 50lbs turface MVP($45), and the repti-bark in 24qt size($16) with free shipping on all orders over $35. I also found a 4 piece soil sieve set($24-30), and foliage pro 1 gallon size ($48) which also qualify for free shipping(orders over $35). Do these prices seem appropriate?

I will have to work out the size conversions to see if I need a little more of something to keep the 1-1-1 ratio. I generally try to go for as large a size I can afford because I always underestimate how much I need plus it's great to have extra on hand just in case. Does anyone know the volume of a 50lb bag of turf ace? The amazon picture does not get big enough for me to read the label.

I do love one stop shopping. I am going to have to save up for everything for sure and my first goal will probably be the foliage pro. It wouldn't do to put a starving plant in a new home, would it? Hopefully this summer I can swing the fertilizer and during winter accumulate the gritty ingredients. (Is it better to transplant a dormant plant or growing plant into the gritty?) Maybe I should start a garden blog about the journey that allows donations? ;)

I am not too worried about the weight, probably because I have no frame of reference for the turface and everything while wet and all my citrus are babies right now. I do have a bad back but also have an (almost) 11 year old son who loves to show off how much stronger than mom he is by moving every heavy thing under the sun. I will have to go back and refresh my 5-1-1 mix knowledge because in the long term I plan on keeping my citrus happy and growing forever, or as long as I can manage it. :)

I'm really happy that I found this forum and everyone who has responded to my posts! There is so much information backed by long term success and it seems like such a friendly group of gardeners are always willing to chime in. I've been a self taught gardener through trial and mostly error for years and just in a little less than a week my knowledge has quadrupled. Whenever I start with a new kind of plant I feel sorry for the first few test subjects because they often die or suffer before I figure out what they like best. My citrus will probably be the first to give thanks that I actually understand what they want before diving head first into the adventure.

Alix, I think the prices are ok, but how many plants do you have? You might not need such large quantities. I buy the gallon size Foliage Pro but I have 40 trees and several hundred orchids. A little goes along way with Foliage Pro. You only need to mix anywhere from a 1/4 tsp to 1 tsp per gallon of water depending on how often you intend to fertilize them. Many here fertilize lightly with each watering. You might want to start with a smaller size if you don't have a lot of plants. Same with the Turface. 50 lbs. is pretty heavy to lift, and if you have extra do you have storage space for it? Maybe you should make a test mix and see how you like it before you put every plant you own in it. It drains well, but some people in very dry and windy climates find it dries out too fast and they can't keep up with watering it. The weight is the deal killer for me. I have a few plants in it that are growing well, but it gets heavy real fast as the pot size increases. Also if you want to keep it up off the floor or ground you will have to find very sturdy plant stands or tables that can bear the weight. If you can leave it in one place and never move it, it is fine. I have to bring my plants in during the winter. Don't forget to check the sizes of the screens in the sieves to make sure at least one is near the size you will need. When I was looking I sort of remember seeing one with multiple size screens, but none were large enough. They were all finer mesh than I needed, and I was glad I noticed before I purchased it. Good luck with your purchases. I love growing my citrus trees. They are ever changing and when they are small they are constantly going through growth spurts of roots, leaves or flowers. So fun to watch and so nice to smell. If you find your plants are blowing over you could possibly drive a post or stake into the ground and tie the pot to that if you don't have a railing or something else to tie them to. Also, try to find pots that are more squat and about the same width top and bottom and they don't tip as easily. I don't know why they sell so many pots with very narrow bases as they fall or are knocked over very easily. The wide bottom ones have more room for the roots too. You can also paint your black pots white. One poster suggested painting only one side of the pot white. That way you can face the white side to the sun during the summer when you need the roots to be cooler, and the black side toward the sun or window in the winter when you are trying to keep the roots warmer. What ever you do, keep us posted on how you make out and keep us updated on how your plants are doing in the new mix. It is always helpful to hear other people's experiences and fun to see pictures of their trees.

Cory

Cory,

As far as citrus goes I have 7 right now and two more on the way. They are little right now ranging from 4 inches to almost two feet. I did get bit by the citrus bug but I am trying to keep it to 10, at least until I become a bit more experienced and can keep them happy year round. I don't know what else loves the gritty mix but I also have two dwarf pomegranates and a ton of houseplants (pothos, philodendrons, dracaenas, spathaphyllum, hedara helix, spider plant, fiddle leaf ficus, and others), some cacti, and succulents(jade, many aloes, tons of sansevierias) and one agave.

Amazon does have the 32 oz size of foliage pro for $20 and the one local nursery I haven't called yet is running a 30% off fertilizer sale until the four so I will see if they carry it.

My apartment is on the ground floor and I can store things in a space behind my apt but you are probably right about testing it out. I do live in a dry windy climate and donot have the ability to use an irrigation system. My tomatoes get very thirsty during the summer and they are in a pretty water retentive mix. I would also have to bring them in during the winter and while my windows are fantastic light wise, I may have to upgrade my current stands to hold heavier plants.

Good point about checking the sieve screen size, I had not thought of that. What size screens are recommended?

I haven't even begun to find better pots yet. They are in the standard black nursery pots still. I was planning on painting them white, or in the very least taping either foil or white paper around them(I did so last year for veggies with success) but painting them half white is a fantastic idea. I am in a superb location for beautiful hand crafted pottery and Craigslist is great to find nearly new but cheaper great pots for when they need bigger sizes. I will look out for plastic pots with a more uniform size for short term, thanks for that tip.

I am excited for all aspects of their growth. I get super excited for new growth on anything, kinda like when you're first in love and can't stop smiling about it. I keep bringing the tiniest bud to my family's attention and they just don't get how awesome it is. Hopefully they will share my enthusiasm when flowers bloom or at the very latest when we get to eat the fruit.

I will try to get some pictures to share and will probably be pretty active here as I am learning and new questions come up. :)

Alix, it sounds like you have plenty of plants to use up the larger quantities of mix and fertilizer. I was picturing you living in a hi-rise apartment when you said you rented in the city. I didn't realize you had a yard and more space. Good luck with the gritty and report if you like it and the pros and cons. I have some adeniums, jade trees and other smaller plants that need a quick draining media in it and they are doing well. But I don't think I could handle pots larger than about 5 gallons with it. If you have helpers that can move them with you maybe it is the best since you have a large dog and the kids that may knock your plants over. Many people here like it.

Cory

I love the gritty mix and use it for a lot of my container plants, but I found that the 5-1-1 mix worked better for smaller/younger (under three feet) citrus plants. They do not want to dry out completely. And I live in the humid Ohio valley with much more rain than you. Also, if you can find any pine or fir bark smaller than reptibark, it will be much better in either mix. The reptibark contains a lot of pieces at 1/2 inch or so, which can cause gritty mix to drain too fast and it doesn't stay well mixed in to 5-1-1 over time.. It was recommended on Gardenweb, so I bought a lot of it in the beginning. It was okay for larger succulents and plants that need to get quite dry between waterings, but it didn't work well for my citrus plants. And it really is quite expensive. It appeals to many people who are making gritty mix for the first time because you can use it right out of the bag. But it is really too large for most uses.

The advantages of 5-1-1 are that you don't need to sift out anything smaller than about 3/8 of an inch, the perlite and peat are much easier to find than turface and granigrit, the mix holds water a little longer and the pots weigh a lot less. Young citrus really need to be transplanted once a year, so you don't need a mix that lasts much longer than that. If you can find a better bark product, I highly recommend going for that.

For gritty mix you want a sieve that screens out dust, and a common kitchen sieve or old screen will work for that. For both mixes you want to screen out any bark larger than 3/8 to 1/2 inch in size.

Cory-Even though abq is the largest city in NM it doesn't compare to even tiny cities on the east coast or west coast. It is sprawling but most buildings have just one floor, I don't think I've seen residential buildings with more than 3 floors at most. There are a few big bank buildings but again they are small compared to most other cities, maybe 15 floors or so. However, even on ground level we can get high winds like you would expect on a high-rise building.

Ohiofem-I think I may go with the 5-1-1 mix initially and see how it goes. If I were just switching over my houseplants or cacti I would probably try the gritty but since citrus are new to me and NM is not their typically climate I want to keep more moisture available to them. Peat is no problem for me to find, perilite may be difficult. I got coarse perilite from HD last year and it was nearly powder instead.

Is there another brand of bark that works better than the reptibark?

Sadly, I didn't see any sort of orchid supply stores in Albuquerque, which makes the fir bark a little harder to find.

I bought my perlite from Amazon; this stuff was perfect for gritty/5-1-1.
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-GMPER100L-100-Liter-Coarse-Perlite/dp/B0055F49P2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1433130028&sr=8-5&keywords=perlite

100 L is a lot of perlite, but I'm slowly going through it!

-Tom

I just found this local place when looking for bark options:

http://soilutions.net/?page_id=41

On second look, decorative pine wood mulch is probably not the same as pine bark fines, right?

Is pecan shell mulch usable in either the gritty or 5-1-1?

I keep coming back to Scott's earthgro mulch products. Does anyone use that successfully? It is everywhere by me. I suppose I should just bring a ruler and go measure things in person. Online descriptions are hit or miss.

I will call soilutions tomorrow and see if they have just pine bark separate from the wood and the patience to shred it smaller than 1/2" for me.

Is there any reason to use peat moss over coco peat? I have plenty of coco peat on hand. I can get 3 cubic feet of peat moss for $12 though, so it wouldn't be too bad to pick it up.

Sorry if my posts are scattered or repetitive. I do end up searching the forum for my answers but I find if I don't write down or type my questions right away I end up forgetting or over looking things.

None of those are suitable. Neither are pine or fir BARK fines. They are chipped or shredded wood!
Suggest you go to a pet store and buy reptile bark or find an orchid grower supply that sells small orchid seedling bark.

Amazon may help. Here is a link: http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptile-Bedding-Quarts/dp/B001F9AMW6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433132255&sr=8-1&keywords=reptile+bark

Gregbradley-I was under the impression that bark chips or nuggets were too large and the size of the reptile bark was not uniform from bag to bag so more of hit or miss. I may be mistaken, I've been searching for some time and will probable go with the reptile bark.

Tom-thanks for that link, I'm sure I'll find a way to use it all eventually. I like having extra supplies on hand when it comes to gardening anyway.

Many people on this forum have used the Earthgro product for 5-1-1. If you search for it on the Container Gardening Forum you will see that most who did thought it worked well. Some bags are much more "partially composted" than others, so it wouldn't be good for gritty mix, but if you find a lot of fine particles in a bag, you can just cut back a bit on the peat when making 5-1-1.

Coco peat is not a good substitute for peat because it has a higher pH and can be too high in salts. Pecan shells are not a substitute for the pine or fir bark, which contain substances that prevent rapid decomposition. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you read any of the posts by Tapla on why he chose the ingredients he did:http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg011449584897.html

I have read that people find the large bags of repti-bark have uneven sizes with larger pieces. I have not found that so maybe it depends on their individual suppliers how well it is screened. I use the repti-bark when I can't get to my orchid nursery. I think the fine bark I get at the nursery is better, which comes from the northwest (I forget the name and I don't think I have an empty bag to look at right now), but the repti-bark works well enough and I have some plants in it for 3 years now. I have been able to pot up some seedling trees and the bark still looked good. People say the John Deere stores carry fine bark, but I don't have one near me. You can probably get all the supplies for the gritty or the 5-1-1 there if you have one near you. I read they carry the Fafard mixes too. I haven't been able to find that locally either,

Cory