Aside from the fact I have difficulty believing it could make a noticeable difference, honestly what would bother me about leaving the caps on is they are the primary source of pathogenic bacteria as well as the enzymes that can lead to spoilage. That is why the approved recipes for doing this call for removal. They also stipulate a very specific amount of salt per ounces of produce. Does your recipe do that? What is the source of your recipe?

There are many recipes for doing all sorts of things on the web but that doesn't mean they are equally safe and unless they come from one of the approved sources that performs the necessary food safety testing they may well be unsafe.

For example, you say this recipe says "ferment for a few days". That is very vague when tested an approved recipes call for 7 days minimum to allow for the development of sufficient beneficial bacteria.

The choice is yours of course but I'd play it safe and remove both the caps and snip the blossom ends..

Dave

Sorry I took days to get back to this. I had to go away for a few days and my personal life was at a stand still.

Kay, that is exactly what I intend to do gram for gram...but I just wanted to ask if anyone already had some experience and for my very first round just keep things simple so that I get the ropes of the fermenting procedure itself.....thank you though!

Dave, You know, when I was thinking how it could be possible that the calyxes if left on make a big perceptible difference in flavor to the sauce I thought it might be some special bacteria that reside in this tissue that produce some chemical(s) during fermentation that imparts the difference in flavor. I didn't this it would spoil the pepper mix. The calyx region is actually known to cause spoilage??

This recipe is an adaptation from the published and very popular Sriracha book, for all that its worth.

A did read in a few places that you are suppose to use about 2% of the weight of the produce in salt. In the recipe I am using there is 1-1/2 lbs of peppers (675gms) to 2 tsp sea salt. I weighed this and it was 13 gms for me which is about 2%. There is no added water.

Is that what you know to be correct?

Today I read to add 3.3%. Well...maybe next time?

And they say to ferment for 4-7 days, stirring once or twice a day, keeping loosely covered. They do say to stop the fermentation and move on to adding vinegar when you like the taste. That is vague for me! When am I supposed to stop? When it tastes 'right' or when fermentation is over? And how do I really know when fermentation is over? People say allow to ferment 1 week, 4 weeks.....you know all about that.

Well things seem to be going OK. The fermentation did start on day 2, bubbling nicely, flavor changing very nicely. No mold or off flavors what so ever. This is day 6. I am letting it go on because I really don't know when I am supposed to stop. The fermentation (bubble production) is much slower now.

I asked about this in a separate post also.

Thank you so much.

K.

<A did read in a few places that you are suppose to use about 2% of the weight of the produce in salt. In the recipe I am using there is 1-1/2 lbs of peppers (675gms) to 2 tsp sea salt. I weighed this and it was 13 gms for me which is about 2%. There is no added water. Is that what you know to be correct? Today I read to add 3.3%. Well...maybe next time?>

There are several approved levels of brine but 2% is too low. Minimum safe recommended is 2.4% but I won't go any lower than 2.5% personally. The lower the % of salt the longer it takes to ferment and the longer it takes for the beneficial bacteria to build up to a safe level. While waiting for that to develop the bad guys have free run of the process and the greater that chance for spoilage.

But I usually won't use any recipe that doesn't call for at least some added water (kraut being the exception if it squishes out enough of its own liquid to cover) because that makes your brine ratio totally dependent on the water in the food itself and that can vary widely.

Take great care with whatever sources you choose to use as there are lots of unreliable sources out there.

Dave

Thank you for the word of caution. I am reading up on the topic in the respected book you mentioned.

K.

I did an experiment from the same batch of green peppers. These were green large cayenne type peppers. I set up one batch with no stem or calyx and another with the calyx left on (no stems). Both were in duplicate containers on the same spot on the counter. I have absolutely no doubt now that leaving the calyx creates a distinctly different flavor and taste in the fermented hot sauce. And you do not have to be super sensitive to perceive and appreciate it. Which flavor is better? I like both. And if there are enough peppers to go around I would do both types for variety. The fermentation rate seems to be faster when the calyx is left.

Albeit that this is only one try with only type of pepper but it is very convincing this one try.

I will set up another trial/experiment with another type of pepper, probably green jalapenos which are plentiful now.

Another two things I noticed, that probably all of you already know. I increased the salt to 3% as advised by Dave and the fermentation took off much faster, the same day almost. And secondly these peppers had almost no flavor or heat, just a green veg. After fermentation the sauce is delicious. Fermentation may be a way to use less than flavorful peppers.

Thanks,

K.

That is good info to have K. Can you describe the difference in taste at all? I mean is it more salty or bitter, sweeter, hotter, an aftertaste? I know it would probably depend on the type of pepper but between these two with the same pepper what character does it seem to have?

Dave

Hi Dave,

This is hard for me to describe but I will try. OK, both are sour and the one with calyx is more sour because it is fermenting faster, I can see that, and the tissues have softened and reduced more. But it is not a bad sour, more of the same sour. The calyx one clearly has another layer of flavor over the sour. It both tastes and smells more zingy and this 'difference' accents the hot, sour and smoky pepper flavor. Its not bitter. Its a stronger sauce. If I bring my nose to the bowl of calyx-sauce I definitely smell smokey.

So the non-calyx sauce smells/tastes like the sour fermented taste/smell I am used to in hot things like kimchee and green hot sauce. And the calyx sauce has a layer of flavor over sour fermented flavor, I can smell both flavors, and it makes it different and more complex. In my reading people have called it 'floral' and 'earthy'. I really don't know, objectively, what floral and earthy means in hot sauce. To my mind it is smokey, but not really.

And this difference in taste/flavor I could perceive from day one of fermentation. I am kind of thinking that if the sauces continue to ferment for a very long time the sour flavor may drown out this other dimension and then they wont be different anymore. But I don't know that.

You may want to try it, how it works out for you. I liked it and it was a worthwhile expt for me. I will definitely try with another type of pepper.

A question for you Dave: Today is 2 weeks of fermentation for these two chili sauces (or mashes). They are plenty sour now. Typically what happens with pepper mashes here on if left fermenting? Do they continue get more and sour? Develop other flavors? Become smoother? I am trying to decide if I should let these go longer or add vinegar now.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments always.

K.

Thanks for the details on the flavoring difference. I just wonder how much of it is due to the heavier concentration and different bacteria on the calyx - I think that would explain the faster fermentation for sure - or if it is the faster fermentation that gives the different flavor. I tend to be bacterial count suspicious when fermenting unknowns so was wondering if the different flavor is really worth the additional possible risk.

<Typically what happens with pepper mashes here on if left fermenting? Do they continue get more and sour? Develop other flavors? Become smoother?>

IME it is more of a change in texture, a further softening,rather than more of a flavor change but what flavor change I have noted is more sour, sharper, rather than smoother. Split the batch and stop one now and let the other go another week and see which you prefer.

Dave

Thank you Dave for the timing thing.. I could smell the flavor difference from essentially day one so it happens very quick. I too thought that the calyx harbors a different bacteria that would lead to the added flavor, how else could so little tissue, that is usually discarded, make such a difference? But there could be some chemical in the calyx too that becomes flavor by the fermentation process? Maybe some of both. I like that you are cautious.

K.