The back of the bush appears to be right up against a conifer. So the Elder isn't getting any sun back there. The plant is growing on the sunny side. To quote someone well known on here 'Google rejuvenation pruning'. Cut some of the older stems right down to the ground.

Hmmm... I knew it would not grow on the side where it grows against my cedar hedge, but the side shown in the bottom picture was full in previous years. As were all the other spots, for that matter. However, I'm now thinking that the top of the bush has grown too big and is overshadowing the base. I'll have to try some careful pruning. My concern is always that I want to maintain as much berry production as possible. Plus, it's huge, so I'll need to perch on a ladder to trim the top...

I'm wondering though - I guess I should leave the bare branches that are in the shady areas there, so they might grow next year if I fix the overshadowing issue with the top of the bush? Or do you think I should just remove that stuff?

most plants do not like when you significantly change how deep teh roots are planted ...

so by dumping stuff on its roots.. may be be significantly changing soil level ..

also.. the tree behind.. may have matured enough.. to be competing for water ... though i cant really image either plant losing that battle ... lol ...

yes.. follow the advice of floras wise unknown sage ... lol ..

be nice to know where you are.. how bad winter was.. how deep snow cover if any ... etc

ken

The Elder species here lives typically for one or two years.
It gives the impression of being longer-lived, because new stalks arise,
sometimes from same base; and/or nearby from roots.
And of course independents grow from the seeds.

Your energies would be best directed to fostering the newest.
Remove unproductive stuff.

Thanks for the tips. I should have specified... z5b Greater Montreal area. This tree or bush is definitely was older than two years, probably more than 10 years old and I don't think it was ever really pruned. It will be a shame to cut it down hard because it provides a lot of privacy to my yard, but I would rather have it look better in a couple of years.
Still, I'll wait until I can harvest some berries to do anything... Is fall or early spring better for this kind of pruning?

I just looked up the range of Sambucus canadensis. "Nova Scotia to Manitoba south to Mexico and Florida". Quite a wide range for this species. Here is my plant on 06-05-12, I never bothered with pruning it, wouldn't know where to start. Somehow it exhausted itself. The following year it had alot of dead wood and now it is gonel. I think that is to be expected. Common Elder is not a long-lived plant.

I find that some winters I have parts of my elderberry (Sambucus canadensis) die back, and those parts won't grow back. Cut those stems to the base and IME the other branches will fill in.

I've lived in my home for 18 years, and my elderberries have been here since before I arrived. I let mine sucker unless they are crowding other nearby plants, so I always have new stems growing. I particularly like that they don't seem as prone to vole damage as many of the plants I grow. Mine get some light afternoon shade, though at least 6 hours of sun, and my soil is acid fine sandy loam.

Mine today.

I took a shot of the "core" of the elderberry, just so you can see how very old it is... All this is old wood. It will be hard to decide what to cut and what to leave behind.

If you have not been getting new stalks nearby from the ground,
then I would guess that you have been preventing them by
working the surrounding area.

I have propagated many Elders from branch cuttings;
some by doing nothing more than to jam small branches
into the ground.

You don't need to lose your privacy because you don't need to cut the whole thing down in one go. You can take out as little as one stem per year and eventually renew the whole plant.

I'm harvesting most berries this year in preparation for not getting any next year after I cut it back. I really don't think I could cut it back gradually with much success as it is so huge. Best to do away with all of it. When would you say is the best time to do this with an elderberry? I'm having trouble figuring out the right timing from the sources I read on rejuvenation pruning.

1) The upper portions of any plant in any condition protect portions below,
including the roots.
2) You do not want to subject your newest regrowth immediately to winter.
3) If it is the case that the current mass affords you any privacy in winter,
then there's that consideration.

You could take a double-barreled approach in spring
by propagating now in pots,
If you can heat and light the potted plants this winter.

in preparation for not getting any next year after I cut it back. I
really don't think I could cut it back gradually with much success as
it is so huge.

==>> nonsense .. read some of the links below

if it were mine.. i would take 3 of the 5 large trunks out.. and watch a bunch of new ones grow ... and this time next year.. harvest whateveer you get from the old ones left ...

and after harvest.. or spring.. whichever is proper.. i would take the remaining large branches ...

ken

https://www.google.com/search?q=rejuvenation+pruing+of+elderberry&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Just to be clear folks... Four, you would then suggest that I wait until spring to rejuvenate? If so, when exactly? Before first growth? After last frost date? After blooming?

Ken, did I understand correctly that you would suggest a modified version of renewal pruning instead (faster paced), and to remove 3/5 trunks right now, the rest next year? And how to I determine which is proper (after harvest or in spring)?

Sorry to be so precise, but I'm really having a hard time figuring this out in spite of reading all sources that have been suggested as well as others that I dug up. From what I gather, it appears that most sources, if they bother to say anything about timing, suggest "late winter or early spring" for renewal pruning anyways. I don't recall anything ever being specified about the timing of rejuvenation pruning.

foreignlady, Elder is a very tough plant and really doesn't care about precise timing. If you have very cold winters it's probably best to prune it in the early spring. Cut all stems or a portion of the stems down to the base - it isn't critical which technique you choose.

Elder is generally a hedgerow shrub here and farmers regularly unceremoniously rip it down with a tractor-mounted flail in the winter. That's how robust it is. It bounces back without a problem.

Thanks for the reassurances. I've grown fond on those little berries and do want the bush to recover!

It will. Now, if you were trying to kill it that would be a challenge.

Listen to (read) the lady, everybody. She wants berries. Next year. Many.

Therefore timing does matter, as does amount cut.
Spring, as early as is likely to be safe.
Remove all that you expect to be unproductive or too little productive.
Given that the post-winter appearance will thwart such assessment,
mark now what you will cut then.

I've been listening.

"I'm harvesting most berries this year in preparation for not getting any next year after I cut it back."

Foreignlady seems reconciled to not having any or many berries next year. Assuming, four, you have read from the beginning you'll know this is not an ordinary maintenance pruning job for fruit. The bush is dense and overgrown with large bare areas on one side. The bullet has to be bitten and some fruit sacrificed to get it back in shape. After rejuvenation or renovation pruning to maximise fruit will again be in order.

You'll see that some way back I suggested doing it in sections. I also recommended Spring. But I'm also trying to allay the OP's fears that this is mimsy plant that can be killed off by a bit of heavy pruning at a suboptimal time of year.

Yes, from the beginning. Early we are told :
"My concern is always that I want to maintain as much berry production
as possible"

You are right; over the process, indeed she has evolved away from
that requirement. Thanks.

Thanks to all for trying to meet my ever-changing needs and wants! It has become clear that you can't always get what you want right away in gardening... but it doesn't have to hurt!

Hey, you read, you listened, you considered. So you adjusted your expectations. As far as I'm concerned, you're a winner!

Hi folks, it's me again, and I haven't followed through on proper pruning of my elderberry bush. To be fair, when spring came last year, I was on strict bed rest while pregnant with twins, and quite frankly there were other things on my mind through all of spring, summer and fall 2016.

As a result, I am still faced with a pathetic bush. Earlier this spring, I tried to remove all the "bramble". There were TONS of dead branches in the bush. I waited for the branches to show their first sign of growth and removed most of the branches that did not show growth. A few weeks later, I am seeing that there are still a vast number of branches that have no growth on them and are also dead.

True to form, my needs are ever changing and at the moment, my house is on the market. I am weighing the pros and cons of different approaches:

1) Just get rid of it, uproot it. It's obviously very drastic, but it would add a lot of open space in the yard. Yes, it would open up the private side yard to view from the street from certain angles, but I think it easily adds 12'x12' of open space.

2) Extreme rejuvenation, cutting it all back down to the "core" of the plant. There are a couple of new growth branches emerging from the center of the bush that might have a chance to grow if the entire top of this thing were cut back. I realize that doing this now would mean no flowers and no berries. Question is, would it be too late for new growth? The little flower clusters are just emerging on the healthy portions of this bush at this time. I don't think a bunch of bare trunks would look all that great, but if there can be some green growth on it, I'd be happy with this scenario. Plus, it would still open up some space in the yard.

3) Just remove more of the dead stuff and have a very misshapen, but flowering and fruit bearing, bush left behind.

I am no longer concerned with getting berries since this won't be my bush anymore. I guess I am looking for the most "attractive" option, but not sure whether all these options are actually open to me given my timing. Being very hesitant and indecisive, I've returned to you for more advice! Thanks!!

Foreignlady

Assuming all went well you have 1 year old twins and are in the throes of moving house. Under the circumstances I'd be strongly inclined to leave the Elderberry to look after itself. I doubt one slightly scruffy shrub will affect the house sale.

Prospective buyers who want starkness know that they will
agent-orange a theirs-to-be property. Prospective buyers who want
mature plants won't recognize the potential of yours if you flatten it.
So, I would aim for keeping plenty of the abundantly green parts;
reducing their heights, or not, to suit your eye.

A now photo would help. At your pace.

I think both of your advice makes sense. Here are current pics after more dead stuff was removed.

Which, if any, is a view from
- the house
- the road
- the driveway
?

#1 can be seen from the street a bit.
#2 faces toward the house but it's off to the side so the angle of view is different.
#3 is what you see when you are in the side yard of the house, which is the largest yard section and the one that would be used the most.

Just some shortening of branches.
For example :

Maybe not the most helpful pic (from today) but you get the idea. This is a wild common elder growing in a local swamp. It is easily 10' high and 15' across. Notably it is in full sun. If it were mine perhaps I would remove the deadwood here and there otherwise leave it to its own devices.

After considering all the advice, we ended up removing some big trunks. A day of strong winds broke another big branch that no longer benefited from the support of the other branches. What we are now left with is a sort of canopy of leaves with long bare, crooked trunks. There is one low lying branch that my husband refuses to part with because he likes the privacy it gives us and he also wants to pick berries with the kids (the other branches are too high). We also cleared the garden waste that I had been dumping underneath, and trimmed the hedge that grows behind it. The result is one very ugly tree, but probably not worse than it previously was. Plus, my thinking is that the core of the tree might get enough sun now so it will sprout new branches, and next year the future owners could remove the old branches, or the whole tree, or just let it be. It will give them options, I guess.

I'll try adding some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks for your help again,

foreignlady

pics

You justifiably can feel pleased with yourselves.

UPDATE... here's what it looks like after a summer of growth. We will probably trim more big branches next spring and let it regrow.

Looking healthy.

Suggestion: a pole to support.