No comment on the perlite and water, as I've never started leaves any other way than in my regular potting mix. I read lots about water roots not being the same as soil roots and that it sets the little plants back when they are transferred to soil - but I don't know anything first hand, so if that method works for you - that's just terrific.
But, holy cow, Rosie! What will you do if ALL those leaves have babies, LOL!!

Yeah, I was hoping for input about the perlite method I used. But Anne,,,would they really be strictly "water roots"? After all they are in a sort of medium, aren't they? Don't know. But I have a feeling we are going to find out.

And I can thank YOU for my beautiful plant Myakka Trail. I got her from you! She is blooming but only from the tips of the stems, which is why I got the brainiac idea to try to get more light into the center stems. I am just in love with the dark leaves and those single purple flowers. She has really adapted to my wick system!

Ha Ha! What will I do with all those babies???? Trade them for other violet starts I don't have of course!!!!!!! lol but serious!!!!!

But I will make sure I keep one started very well for my daughter. Did you see the thread about her babies???? She is just getting started in violets and is thrilled with each new thing that happens!

You can start leaves in just perlite. I always use vermiculite and perlite mixed (or almost always). I like Myakka Trail too.

Oh quimoi, do you have one? Aren't her leaves just the darkest color? And I love the red reverse on them. I just love this plant!

What ratio do you use when you mix the perlite with vermiculite? By starting them in perlite OR perlite with vermiculite would that give something other than "water roots"???? Thanks Rosie

Yes. I do have one but it is small now. I had it before and I liked it but then I tried to kill everything and I succeeded with that one :). Somewhere I saw a hybridizer but I don't know if it was right or not. I liked it too and really did want to replace it. The color combination is very nice. As to how it grows as a proper trailer, I wouldn't know since I don't grow proper trailers. I never seem to see anything about it. (I almost think the hybridizer was Bryant but maybe I am wrong.)

I don't know how I mix it. I think I tried half and half and that wasn't quite right. I believe some of the problem is that it depends somewhat on the size of everything. If you're vermiculite is too fine, then it cakes or your perlite is bigger then that is too loose. Mostly I just kind of try to mix up so it seems right. If the leaves are flipping out, I probably didn't get enough vermiculite in it. I suppose maybe you could try 1 perlite to 2 vermiculite and see what it looks like and if it looks like the vermiculite is going to hold too much water, put like another 1/2 part perlite in. I have done it that way always and it generally works fine. I have wondered if there a few plants that might prefer one or another but really most are fine that way. If it didn't work, I wouldn't have such a mess. I have never started them in water.

Diana

I am not sure but I think Joanne told me the hybridizer is someone named Ulery. I am glad you have one. Don't cha just love her??? If you didn't and wanted leaves I would send a couple to you. The only thing about her is the description says bell flowers and mine are "flat" open like normal singles. Wonder why. But I just love her.

You mix up medium like I do. Kinda go by "feel and look" instead of measurements. Yep, you and I have the same "mess"!!!!! hahaha

Well I don't think my perlite only is a good thing for her leaves. Checked them today and they are wilting. Good Grief! They should not wilt, they are in water for goodness sake! Ok, water with perlite, but water nontheless!!!!!

Tomorrow I will recut stems and amend the perlite with some vermiculite. I seem to do better with that. I never had luck nor did I have faith in just perlite alone, I hope the leaves don't die. Hope I can save them. Rosie

That's a good question, Rosie - mine, too, had flat blooms with nothing bell shaped about them and I hadn't even thought about it til I read your latest post. I have a bad habit of not going back to the written description and checking when things bloom for the first time. I got the leaf I started from a GW round robin last year (May of 2014) but don't know who contributed it. Photos in a search did turn up several showing flat flowers, but as they say you can't go by photos but only by what the written description is. So, I guess you and I would not be "showing" our lovely 'imposter' Myakka Trails.

That's ok with me. I just fell in love with her, don't know why. Her little flowers are just so dainty. She has a forever home (along with sooooooo many other plants, 2 dogs, garden flowers etc. lol !!!!!!!!!!!!) Rosie

Where did you get your description? It is not in FC2; not registered. Okay, I did get C. Ulery somewhere but the rest is from Bloomlovers. Who said it was a bell?
Myakka Trail (C. Ulery) Dark blue single blossoms. Pointed dark green. Semiminiature trailer (User Database)

If that C. Ulery is right, it is the person who hybridized White Pride, the mother of Tommie Lou. I do not know where I found that though or if it is correct for sure.

Diana

Thank you for interjecting that info, Diana - I don't have access to FC2 and didn't know that Myakka Trail was not registered - nor do I pay attention to that kind of thing ordinarily! I usually do a search on line for the description and at least a half dozen sites all have the same: " Myakka Trail Dark blue bell, dark green foliage, red back, semi-miniature trailer." So someone somewhere started the rumor about the bell shape and it has spread across the Iweb? Does anyone here grow a MT that IS bell shaped? Hmmm, perhaps our two plants are true to variety -?

What is FC2? I have just spent the better part of 2 hours researching this lovely violet of mine! (with FLAT blue flowers)

Have found both descriptions with the "bell flower" one more prominant. How can this happen??? And I also found 2 photos. One with bell flowers and one with flat flowers. I can see changing words, but how do you change flowers in a pix???

There is one lady (shanti) on ETSY that sells the bell flower version.

I will post the two photos I have in the next post. Apparently the forum says my post is too long. Rosie

Won't let me post pix. I don't know how to make them smaller. Rosie

I really don't know about this one. I never saw much about it. First Class is a computer program put out by the AVSA. It lists all the registered AVs and quite a lot of the unregistered ones as well. There are quite a few photos, but not everything has a photo.

I am not claiming to be any authority. I ordered from Bloomlovers in July of 2010 and she had and still has no hybridizer listed. It seems to me I found that somewhere recently. Bloomlovers has a photo. After I killed it, I reordered it this year.

That photo on Shanti's site does not show a bell although it says bell.

I think it is Pixie Runaround Sport that is described as a bell but I never saw one that was. Still people who you would think should know keep listing that same description with their non-ringing plants :) It is not registered either and I see it is only in FC2 because I put it there.

Maybe there is somebody loose who does not know a bell when they see one? Now there are some of Rob's that do look like bells to me but are not listed as such and I am not arguing with him. They are not flat though but quite cupped.

I am more curious about whether the C. Ulery is correct. Tina does not have it but then last I saw, she did not have a hybridizer for Meek's Little Ellie which is pretty obviously Meek. (Kind of like Lyon's whatever.) I should have noted the details on that C. Ulery as to where I found it. I was pleased because that meant it was vintage though.

For whatever reason, there seem to be massive numbers of unregistered trailers, generally pink though. I would think the Myakka might be a clue - maybe.

I can ask on Brats although I have been far too wordy there lately. I'm not sure who would know. The trailer list seems to stick to just a few.

(I wonder if it was Ruth Wheeler Trail that I saw listed as Bryant? That is another mystery one for me.)

Diana

Here is the description from shantis site:

Myakka Trail
Dark blue bell, dark green foliage, red back, semi-miniature trailer. This is one of my favorite violets. It has deep blue flowers that are held against dark green foliage. A truly stunning combination.

I saw later that Shanti had 2 photos; one is not a bell and the other is cupped. We established that I cannot be sure what is a bell or not so I won't say it is for sure. One was not. It is Rob's Chilly Willy that has been looking like bells. It needs attention anyway.

She has 3 pix on her site and it is bell shaped on two of them. AND now that makes me wonder,,,,,what is she showing pix of ?????? If she is selling these the pix should be consistant,,,,right?

davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/192861/African Violet Saintpaulia 'Myakka Trail' ... (saint-PAWL-ee-a) (Info). Cultivar: Myakka Trail. Hybridized, by C. Ulery.

**********************************************************************************

https://babyviolets.wordpress.com/.../myakka-trail-semi-miniature-africa...

Feb 12, 2014 - Myakka Trail: This is a semi-miniature African violet trailer variety known as Myakka Trail. The flowers are Dark blue in color and bell shaped.

**********************************************************************************

AVSCanada also shows a pix of a flat flower.

**********************************************************************************

There are a few more info sites, but I guess the question becomes,,,,who is correct about the flower?????? Rosie

I saw her description and two photos but only one was cupped. The one was not cupped, Rosie. I am not going to argue "bell" or not on the other. Like I said, I have seen some I would call bell that are not listed as a bell so I figure I don't know. This one is not a bell:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/76077668/african-violet-live-plant-myakka-blue
I like the thing - wouldn't have replaced it if I didn't.

I had some notion this year that I needed bells so I bought bells and then I discovered that I didn't like little bitty bells all that much anyway. :) I have a couple that are okay.

(The flowers in that photo look about as much like Pixie Blue as anything but it doesn't really look like Pixie Blue.)

Diana

Does anyone but me belong to the Facebook trailer group? I am a member but have not really been active. I could ask but would rather someone else do it.

I did ask on AV Brats. It appears that the C. Ulery as hybridizer is a mistake unless someone has some very good evidence for it. This is what Cy Yee said: "Ulery Greenhouses in Springfield, OH never introduced any trailers! They
were in the greenhouse business, including the creations of many of
their own standard AV releases, from the 1940s (?) to about the
mid-1960s and then they probably switched greenhouse crops and decided
to grow and sell other houseplants. Surprisingly, UG is still operating
today in the same location, but they grow and sell large-size
houseplants on a wholesale basis."

He wasn't familiar with Myakka Trail but felt it was more likely from the 90's. For anyone who does not know (and I did not until I looked) Myakka Trail is in Florida in case there is a clue there. I, for example, would never have named anything that.

I don't know. They keep selling Pixie Runaround Sport with that description that says "bell" and I've never seen one that's a bell. These aren't registered so maybe anything goes. I am not sure what mine is going to do. Teeny Bopper is not called a bell but it doesn't open up either. Barely visible little pointed posies. (I wonder if Lyon's would like me to rewrite the description for them?)

I would like to say that there is some merit to belonging to groups, even with Facebook and venues like this. They may not be very active but you do find people who know different things and may share them. Facebook isn't a very good place to learn anything. Many of the growers there are new and while there is nothing wrong with that, the depth of knowledge may be somewhat lacking at times. (I am about ready to charge for finding names and descriptions :) People are sloppy with them and then someone is looking for what they have. Then I am the psychic hotline (or someone else I suppose).

Diana in PA

Well, thank you Diana for all your research - and for getting more info from the redoubtable Cy on the Brats forum. Seems like almost everything circulated about this little plant is in doubt, from description to hybridizer. I don't do Facebook at all, at all, so I can't check there. I'm going to continue to call my plant MT, but if I share it again I will also share this conundrum.

I don't think the descriptions for unregistered varieties are written in stone. I have seen them vary somewhat. Now when it is a registered variety, there is an official one even if the plant doesn't match it any more. OTOH, if they aren't bells, it seems like we shouldn't be calling them bells. Bloomlovers doesn't call it a bell. Apparently the Master Variety Lists have some unregistered ones in them but I am not very familiar with those. i would think you could call it Myakka Trail if it seems to fit though just scratch Ulery and perhaps not lead people to expect a bell. I am anxious to see what this one does.

I should have done more research before attributing it to C. Ulery I suppose. I'm not sure where I saw that and now I wonder how that happened. I used to have my old AVSA magazines but no one cared about the info anyway and I got rid of them so I'm not going to buy someone else's. You pretty much have to go through them page by page too.

Diana

Wow, this is quite an issue with MK! I think I will just enjoy her as MK with flat flowers in a beautiful blue color that I love,,,,,and I am not really a fan of blue much of anything!

I also have been trolling the internet for resolution to this (thanks for the right word Anne!!!!!) "conundrum" and I just don't know what to say. Rosie

Well, at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. My experiment with perlite only was a flop and I lost the leaves! Oh don't worry,,,,,my adult plant is still growing well!!! Rosie

I did ask on the trailer list and got no response. However I found a mention of it misspelled but it really said nothing although it was not a bell. I am sorry about your leaves. I am fairly sure it is not Ulery anyway. I cannot find where Ruth Wheeler trail may have come from either.

Dancin' Trail has dark leaves but has not bloomed yet. It is "red" which is not a favorite of mine generally.

Diana

Sometimes (although not always) we can avoid some of this confusion with registered ones. It is a point in favor of registration. You should know the hybridizer and what they are supposed to look like. (I said supposed.) There are 3 unregistered Santa Fe Trails, for example so if two were still around you might get innocent confusion.

Well, that is just as bad as Pip Squeek. There are 2 but they are spelled differently. But if you are using the spoken word, not the written one there is confusion there and you may end up getting something different than you think. I think the other one is spelled Pip Squeak.

I have Pip Squeek a micro mini I believe. I can't reference anything I am not on my own computer so I have none of my saved files. Hopefully mine will be fixed within a couple days. This just makes me aware of how much I don't have committed to my memory and store on my computer instead! Sorry for that little "off Topic" journey!

Is Dancin' Trail a vintage trailer???? I love red. By now everyone knows I love ALL the violets! lol Rosie

Dancin' Trail (5565) 09/30/1983 (S. Sorano) Double red star. Dark green, pointed, glossy/red back. Semiminiature trailer
See? I told you having them registered was of some use, sometimes :) I don't know how it's going to turn out for sure yet. Yes, I guess it is vintage.

I find it very hard to figure out how these things grow until I try to grow them. Looking at someone's photo who grows them into a show plant doesn't tell me much. Even the sizes seem to wander all over.

Diana

I thought it was. I was looking through my AVSA registration list that they used to send with the mag. The name just stuck with me. And then you posted it!

I am all for registered NAMED varieties but I also have to settle for unregistered as well. I usually don't know if something is registered or not only because I see, I want, I obtain (hopefully ! lol) and THEN I sit back and look for info on it. I also have to settle for the Optimara no name but maybe sometime game. Oh my it is a wonder we can have a name for anything at all!

I will put Dancin' Trail on my list! For some reason I am really into trailers. Still looking for my Sweetheart Trail! Had her when she first came out years ago, Violet Trail also! Along with all the other vintage I used to have that I still love and would love to have again!!!!! I am on a mission!!!!! Rosie

For some reason there are just a great many unregistered trailers. Candy Fountain is not registered either. It does make it hard to trace some of them though. I would not deprive myself of Candy Fountain because it isn't registered.

I suppose it's also possible that some of them are running around under two different names and are the same. There are sure a lot of pink trailers. (I don't know this but I don't know why it couldn't happen either.) We seem to have found some confusion in other varieties. I finally decided to just live with it and grow one and stick 3 names on it - space saver (Neptune, Woodland Sprite, etc.)

I don't have Sweetheart Trail and somebody gave me a yen for Violet Trail too so let me know if you find it. It's most likely gone since that seems to be the way with everything that is mentioned like that. (I don't really know though and don't mean to discourage you.) I will run a search on that group when I think of it. I hope it looks for the phrase and not "violet" and "trail" or everything will come up. (I see those are both real old Lyons)

Yes a lot of Lyons were available back in the day. Seemed as though they were cranking them out at a pretty good rate! AND of course, I bought as many as I could afford. And propagated every leaf that even thought of breaking off!. To me that was the golden era of violets! lol

I will have to look up Candy Fountain. Have not seen her yet.

Yep if I find either one I will let you know. Rosie

I seem to be caught in a time warp, too, noticing that I am buying plants I had before instead of amazing new ones. The thing is I do not see "'amazing new ones." I know - Russians. But so often we see just a blossom and they are hard to find and write on the pot :)

Candy Fountain is an old, unregistered Fredette. I think I like those old standard trailers that I don't have to mess with much like Cherokee Trail and Glitter Fountain. Rob's can be pretty but they are always doing that trailer thing they do and demanding something.

It seemed like I gathered up every trailer imaginable but I still keep finding many others. I cannot keep them all nor will I want them all.

Diana

Yep same here,,,I tend to be a creature of habit. Ohhhhhh don't get me wrong, I see the new and oh heck yeah I want "one of everything and 3 of each"!!!!! lol

Actually I would like to get both of the ones you mentioned.

What do you mean by "Rob's can be pretty but they are always doing that trailer thing they do and demanding something." Aren't trailers supposed to trail? And what do his plants demand?

I have one Rob's that I know of. Rob's Loose Noodle. So far so good. Not knowing anything could be a good thing, no preconceived notions! But really,,,,,what do they do? Rosie

Yes they are supposed to trail but his grow so much that you have to repot and prune and mess with them which is fine except I really don't want to do all that. I pot them in a pot and maybe take something off once in awhile so I really don't grow them as trailers. Some are semi-trailers I think. At any rate, Rob's do not act like the others. I am not saying Rob's are bad - they are probably good if you want to keep filling up pots. I have Rob's Boolaroo and Rob's Vanilla Trail (pink) and one more which is still small and another which may not be coming true.

I had two Boolaroo in a pan pot and redid it and just put one back. Vanilla Trail isn't quite as big but it grows large enough too. I would say Boolaroo takes up every bit as much room as Cherokee Trail and has far more leaves to mess with. (I don't show so don't care about that stuff.) It might well be hard to fill a pan pot with Candy Fountain. I never tried.

My Myakka Trail's blossoms do look like a bell (I guess anyway). They are small but then it was kind of neglected for awhile. They might be bigger if it's taken care of. This one came from a Bloomlover's leaf last year.

There should be some other little ones around because I got a new leaf this spring since this plant had looked kind of iffy. It was my fault. I had so many leaves going that I had let it go dry. However it did make it. It will be interesting to see if the other batch looks the same.

This is strange that we have different blossoms.

Diana

very pretty plant, do like the dk green

Well, since I lost all of the leaves in my "perlite" experiment, I will thin out a couple more just to hedge my bet. I will go back to my regular rooting mix. I am thinking I will fertilize this week and maybe that is what "Miss" Myakka Trail needs to make a bell flower! I'll let you know! Rosie

I don't know. Maybe some day we can figure this out. Whether they are sporting or we have two varieties here. I really don't know much about bells. Are they prone to going flat? :) I guess these are from different sources. Assuming I have not killed this year's batch, I should have more eventually.

I don't recall hearing about any issues but then my bell experience is pretty limited too.Dancin' Trail is dark green too. I don't know that either one behaves. The one post seemed to suggest that Myakka did not particularly. Maybe Dancin' does. Dancin' Trail is that kind of burgundy pinkish that they try to tell us is red. The FC2 photo of Dancin' Trail looks pretty wild to me. I assume she knew how to grow it. Heaven knows I don't.

Diana

I don't know either. I do know that for some reason I just fell in love with her as soon as she peeked out of the wrapping! Kinda silly isn't it? Just something about her,,,,,,, Rosie