Thanks very much Todd, I will certainly look into those and pass along the details. Are the prices comparable?

Somewhat. I'd go ultaweld 1st, Pro second then Simonton

You will not find soft lite or okna for 350 per window, that would not happen; same with the sunrise.

If its a rental use something cheap like alside, thats the only way i can see someone using that. 350-400 is a rental window price from my experience same with a house flip window.

+1 to Todd's advice. Those brands he threw out there as suggestions are far better than the two in your original comparison.

Thanks guys. The contractor says he's never heard of Polaris Ultraweld or Simonton but I will forward their websites, maybe that will help. He says he's also used a local Boston manufacturer, "Diamond Windows". In my limited research they seem no better than the Mezzos, maybe worse? It's definitely a pricing issue as the city sets the limits and I think that price includes installation. The entire budget for the de-leading of both units is not cheap though, 35-40k.

Soft-lite should be available through ABC.

Thanks, Todd. Making some progress with ABC... Simonton 5050s any good?

Simonton's 5050 is their lower end offering. I'd stick with the 5500, Prism Platinum, or 9800.

Visited ABC for a windows education... they gave me a price of 240 per window on the 5500s, also recommended Ellison 1800s for the same price. Project budget is 350 per window including installation.

Is 110 per window for installation (around 40 windows total) good for the contractor? ABC said anything in the 50-100-125 range for installation was good.

What type of install is it again?

Wow, these double-hung 5500s are intended to replace original old wood frame windows in an early 1900s multi-family, all 40.

I really have to thank you guys for the advice and leading me to ABC, seems like a great group over there. I was dreading "the Mezzos". Hopefully this project will work out.

Labor rates can vary by location and market. Ask the ABC guys for their best installer and be sure to specify the coil you want as well as low expansion foam for air sealing around the insert.

I would do that but unfortunately I can't for this project. The contractor is chosen by the city along with the overall budget and cap of 350 per window. The ABC window guy said he would install the 5500s for around 50 per window/45 mins, maybe I can get the contractor to use him.

Coil balance or wrap?

Don't forget to look at the Soft-lite pro classic or even Barrington. They don't push them at ABC but should be available. Wow meant coil/ aluminum for the exterior window wrap. I'd assume they are not capping windows even at $350 for a mezzo.forget the pricing the ABC guy gave it is irrelevant and would not even address the type of work your contractor is doing. Talk nice to your contractor and see what kind of deal you can make. Soft-lite lead times are not as fast or reliable as Simonton which are quite excellent. Keep the updates and questions coming as this is my main source of entertainment.

"...this is my main source of entertainment."

We need to talk Todd.

My local ABC says they don't carry Soft-lite but I put a call into a nearby Soft-lite distributor and I'm waiting to hear back. I'm pretty happy with what I saw at ABC and the Simonton 5500s over the Alside Mezzos... if 110 labor per window is acceptable and they can have them ready in a week, I'd say we're on a good track.

ABC was highly recommending Ellison 1800s for the same price as the Simonton 5500s. Any thoughts on those?

Not familiar with Ellison windows and their website doesn't offer much info on them. ABC may carry Kensington which I have heard good things about.

Hi Devan, our Mezzo® Windows feature a thermally optimized narrowline frame and sash with a dual-pane insulated glass solution designed to meet stringent ENERGY STAR® requirements. We would be happy to send you more information and answer any questions you may have. You can email us at alsidesocialmedia@gmail.com.

Daily Entertainment Update for Todd & WOW...

I spoke with the city-assigned contractor and he says he hates Simonton (not necessarily the 5500s) and that he installed them once and had a huge problem and that his supplier stopped carrying them and switched over to Alside Excaliburs/Mezzos, which he likes. He didn't get into specifics on what the problem was with Simonton but said I would have to sign some disclosure waiving his liability if I continue to want to install them. He also said the material budget per window is 200 max, leaving 150 for labor per window, which seems on the higher side but perhaps not out of the question in a deleading job.

I kind of feel bad for this contractor; he's probably never encountered anyone like me before on one of these city-awarded projects. I'm sure that most people just gladly take the Alside Mezzos no questions asked. At this point, I'm set to proceed with the city paperwork this evening and have directed him to check with ABC on the 5500s.

That's all for now, next comes paperwork. Glad to hear any further advice.

If nothing else, Simonton's history of warranty service is well regarded as nearly stellar so his complaint holds no water on that issue.

I'm with WOW on the Simontons. If the contractor has been around I'm sure he has ran into your type before so think nothing of it, its part of the job. Alside is usually always the supplier of its product's and Simonton is not . can't see having 1 problem and switching, I think he's just trying to sway you to Alside, signing a waiver sounds lame.

Does the pricing of windows include wrapping exterior trim in coil? If not how do they address the area that is unfinished behind the storm window.

I would be tempted to use Alside if he'll sign a waiver, releasing you from any issues that arise with the product or the manufacturer and agreeing to pay you an additional charge for any problems that arise from the use of Alside products.

Todd, I don't know about the wrapping plan, if any. I'll mention it. I tend to think the install will be as bare-bones as possible but I hopefully wouldn't expect to see exposed wood or unfinished areas. The current storm windows are wrapped nicely.

After meeting with the city I will not need to be signing any additional liability waivers with the contractor and he now seems to be ok with installing the Simonton 5500s within the set per window budget.

Is there anything else that I should be asking about that is good practice, like non-expanding foam?

Oh, and the reason given for accepting the Simonton 5500s price was that the lower unit is vacant and it will be much easier to work, install and savings will come from the fact that expensive poly will not be needed since the unit will be empty. I don't know if that makes sense but that's how it was explained.

Sounds like the house is wrapped in coil now. In that case they should be wrapping the blind stop between the storm and the existing window. Sometimes the wrapping on the will does not come in far enough and should be covered with a will extension. I would not let them work without poly working with lead paint. There are no provisions in EPA rule, state rule or HUD guidelines that would allow this. Glad to see you making progress in the right direction.

I'll mention about coil, Todd. The way I understood it, they'll still use poly on the floors but a lot less of it as there will be no furniture to cover.

Sound like a win win then, nice gesture on their part. All contractors love vacant houses.

Todd, Wow, just an update, downstairs is over half done, just waiting for the windows to arrive. I noticed that they're using fiberglass as insulation in the pockets, etc. as opposed to non-expanding foam.

They snuck in a Jeld-Wen "9-lite" exterior door for the downstairs back door. Not too concerned. I think I already have a pretty good feel for them but what's the consensus on these Jeld-Wen doors? Looks ok but builder-grade, I think.

They didn't have the correct width casing for a handful of the common side window belly casings in series (originals casings are wider), so they wound up cutting the standard width belly casings and joined them. Just wondering if this is a common/good solution? Downstairs, these franken-casings will be painted, but the equivalent ones upstairs will be stained.

Turns out they are removing the existing storm windows, which is a surprise as I figured it would just add to the efficiency, like a triple-pane. They say it could cause overheating and window damage. Is this typical?

How can it be verified that the new windows are indeed Simonton Reflections 5500s, rather than lower-end 5050s or even another brand? Is there a tag or something to look for on the new windows?

Thanks again!

The storm removal is appropriate and standard procedure.

The "two-pieced" casing is not-so-much, but that is something that you may need to hash out with them based on what was agreed to.

Not going to get too many positive comments on that door option. "Builder grade" as you characterized it is about right.

Fiberglass in the pockets is generally adequate, unless it was specifically stated to be foam. It would take hundreds of dollars of foam to fill weight pockets on a house full of window replacements. For the opening where the new frame sits inside the opening however, that should be foamed. I like to see the openings between the weight pockets into the window openings sealed with foam as well.

On the windows, there should be some identifier on the window somewhere. The NFRC stickers should be on there upon installation and will show the series of window, as would a warranty sticker typically that is hidden in the head jamb.

You should be able to get the right moldings @ Next Day Moulding in Braintree. They carry most profiles and can get others pretty quickly.

http://www.ndmoulding.com/PDF/NDMoulding_Interior_Moulding.pdf

They snuck a jeldwen in? What was it suppose to be? Send some pics of the windows. X2 on everything Home sealed said. Not sure on your casing comments, are the going to wrap the trim? I thought they were doing inserts , typically the casings remain. They have me a little worried.

It wasn't specified and I wasn't asked about brands, although I did get a choice of a few window styles. I studied it and the door seems ok, installation looks quite good.

Some casings were painted and they contained lead, so they had to be replaced.

Here's a collage of the work in progress as of today:

1. After removing the storms some exterior areas are now exposed. Looks like these open edges may need to be wrapped?

2. Sticker confirms Reflections 5500, noticeable 1/4" gap above this center window, slightly damaged corners on this window (see #9) and it's missing the top plastic rail that all the other windows have. Frankencasing on left. All windows are in place but seem loose (wobble when pushed), so I think there is more installation to do.

3. Another window, noticeable gap on top and left, wobbly, not finished.

4. 2-piece center Frankencasing (centers only, others are 1-piece). Also note missing top plastic rail on right vs left.

5. Original center belly casing.

6. Top plastic rail, missing on center window in #2.

7. Replacement apron from molding cut on angle.

8. Original apron, showing craftsmanship.

9. One set of triple windows in context. You can currently see light through the upper gap in center window, not noticeable so much in this photo. Also note damage on right corner (and to a lesser extent left corner) on the center window. Possibly dropped and the plastic railing shattered off. Looks relatively minor, but I think that rail plays a part in filling these gaps?

Amazing how much glass you lose with replacement windows, especially so with thick frames like on the Reflections 5500.

Your aluminum will looks pieced together if they don't replace it. Sometimes you can wrap the exposed wood part only and have it look seamless, but not in your case. Make sure there are no cracks in the window frame otherwise the small chips should be okay. Doesn't look like the windows are set so the gaps may change once they level and set them. It looks like they are using head expanders on some windows and not others? I would prefer none be used at all. Hard to say from. The pics about the trim. Typically existing trim on inserts is reused on interior. If something was not going work or be replaced they should have noticed this before work started and brought it to attention. Same goes for the exterior aluminum.