Well, it's just my personal opinion, but I'm not a fan of either method of containment for a dog. I firmly believe that if someone can't afford to provide for a dog in a manner that is 100% humane they shouldn't take on the responsibility of having one. And IMHO, crates and chains are not humane. If you plan on adopting a dog so you can chain it up, than please reconsider and get a cat or some other animal instead.

Yes, I agree. A fenced in yard is what is best IMHO. I'm just not understanding some of these agencies/organizations that think it's better to keep a dog inside in a crate instead of being outside. It makes no sense to me.

I don't know what kind of neighborhood you live in, but I live out in the country and none of those things you mentioned would happen to a dog I had in the area where I live, except possibly the weird weather. (I'd never let my dog out if I thought strong weather was coming.) And please.....I'm not against crating a dog. We actually crate our dogs when we're gone for long periods of time. I just don't understand why hooking a dog outside in the fresh air and where they're able to move around more (as long as all the dog's needs are met) is so "horrible". I admit that we hook our dogs outside (only when we're home though), and they LOVE it, as they're outside with us while we're doing yardwork, etc. They both have trees for shade (that are far enough away that they can't get wrapped around them), doghouses to go into in case it starts to rain and plenty of water accessible to them. So what's the big deal? I'm feeling a bit like people's wild imaginations (someone poisoning your dog?!) play a part in this way of thinking. I'm not saying those things probably don't ever happen, but not where I live.

Theft is not a concern in my area, but house fires certainly are. When I need to be away from home for an afternoon, and cannot bring my dogs with me, they stay in my roomy fenced yard. They have shade, water, and shelter and are certainly better off than indoors, even with the run of the house. But most of all, if the house should burn up, my dogs would not burn with it.

If I lived in an urban or suburban area, the risk factors might be shifted.

As far as crates, my feeling is that if you want an animal who lives in a cage, even part of the time, get a bird or a small rodent.

syd1155, i live in the country. on a dead end lane. a mile away from any road that is even remotely busy so no, it's highly unlikely that any of those things would happen to either of my dogs. i would venture to guess that more people than not who frequent this forum are city dwellers or at the very least, have neighbors fairly close and those are the folks my post was directed at. i am blessed in that my dogs are trained to underground fence (they have 7 acres) and are 100% reliable so i leave the dog door open for them to go in and out at will when i am gone a couple of days a week.

i always have to laugh when i hear the word "cage" used with regard to dog crates. they aren't circus animals, they are family members who knowledgeable people and people who understand dog behavior will occasionally (sometimes every day) crate their dogs for periods of time. dogs that are trained to use a crate most likely have no objection to it and dare i say, even tend to think of their crate as their very own happy place/den. now, punishing a dog by crating it is against everything a good owner would do. a crate should never be used as punishment. you wouldn't tie your child up in a corner. would you?

"I admit that we hook our dogs outside (only when we're home though),
and they LOVE it, as they're outside with us while we're doing yardwork,
etc." you, yourself, admit that you do this when you are there. i have NO problem with that. it is the dog that is chained to a tree or a post all. day. long. i can't imagine a worse life for a dog. i have seen dogs become so neurotic being chained all day that there is not a blade of grass to be seen in the entire circular area they have access to because all they do is pace. it's really very sad to think so many dogs live this way.

Yes, you are correct about dogs and being crated. We crate both of our dogs (we rescued two beautiful dogs that are my fur-babies!) at night and when we're gone and they both go running into their crates when we say, "we're going bye-byes" or "time to go nighty-night". I think they both look at their crates as a safe haven and they willingly and happily go into them when called to do so. We do like the idea of them being crated while we're away, as this way we know they are safe and that they will not get into anything harmful while we're away. I do think that spedigrees has a good point, however. Should a fire occur in your home, your dogs would be sitting ducks (or should I say 'sitting dogs'?). I suppose it's hard to know exactly what is best sometimes, however, I'm of the opinion that every dog owner should be permitted to figure out for themselves what is best for each specific dog they own. This makes screening people before any adoption is done of utter importance. That way you know the people who you are giving the dog to, are going to make wise decisions about what is best for their dog. To charge someone with "dog abuse" simply because they choose to keep their dog outside in a fenced in area or hooked up just isn't proper either IMHO. We need to look at this realistically and hit a good balance here and not go too far either way IMHO. We need to always keep in mind what is best for that specific dog. I say this because I've had many dogs over the years and some seemed to prefer being outside (our husky mix LOVED being outside, even in the coldest weather) and some preferred to be inside (a short-haired lab mix we had). The dog owner should be the one to determine what is best for their dog. Naturally though, if a dog isn't being fed, doesn't have water or is left outside or even inside for hours on end with no human contact, THIS is what constitutes abuse and these people should and MUST be charged.

Need to add here that it seems that keeping dogs in a fenced-in area outside is probably the best alternative. Anybody else have different thoughts about that?

spedigrees----I feel I must share this with you. I was always of the same mindset as you regarding crates (thought they were cruel and inhumane) , until we got a puppy and we were told that housebreaking this puppy would go much easier if we purchased a crate. We were EXTREMELY reluctant to purchase a crate, however, many nights of waking up at 3AM to clean up a "mess" convinced us to finally do so! Well.....both of our dogs absolutely LOVE their crates. They look at their individual crates as being their own special little place just for them. They go into them quickly when scared and need no coaxing whatsoever when called to go into them by either my husband or me. Crating a dog is also an individual decision that each dog owner should make for themselves IMHO, depending on what they think is best for each dog they own and care for. Our husky mix we had maybe wouldn't have done very well with a crate, as huskies supposedly don't like being confined at all, however, our lab mix most likely would've loved to have a crate; a place that was just for her. So you see.....it just depends on the dog IMHO. Each dog should be given whatever care its owner feels is best for him/her, just as parents do with each individual child they have. In some cases, crating a dog might be inhumane, but in other instances, it might be the best thing you can do for that dog.

Preferences aside (although I am on the side of crate training), I did want to mention that many places have very clear laws against chaining or tying dogs outside for any amount of time without human supervision. You may want to check your City Ordinance before doing so.

many areas are passing such laws, and it's great! however, i wonder how many calls a police department/animal control department gets about a chained dog that they actually respond to and/or DO something about.

I would not leave our pets outside in our fenced yard when we are not home. I would definitely not chain them ever anywhere. If you are living in a rural area, all the more reason not to leave them chained outdoors-we are in a suburban/urban area and have foxes, raccoons, a coyote, and other wildlife in our neighborhood. I would imagine that you would not want an animal (rabid or not) attacking your pet when it is chained and cannot escape.

We never have crated ours, but a lot of dogs seem to see crates as their safe place, so I can't speak to that.

..and don't forget the skunks!!

here is a good example of why i would never do it out here. i live on a 20 acre farm, way up in the hills, off the beaten path, on a 1/4 mile private lane that dead ends at my place. i'm about as isolated as you can get. a couple of years ago, i was working on some fencing and my 2 danes were outside with me, just hanging out, wandering around. it isn't at all unusual for them to be out of my sight. i have 7 acres of underground fencing.

suddenly, i hear screaming. i mean screaming! i had no idea a dog could make this sound but it instantly got my attention. i dropped my tools and ran to the back yard where i found my male dane on the ground...under a 400+ pound sow. she was ramming her snout into him with a vengeance. i pounded on her as hard as i could and could not get her off. i turned to see a tiny piglet in the yard. all i could think to do was pick up the piglet, move away and squeeze it a little to make it squeal. when i did that, the sow turned her attention to me and gave my dog enough time to get up and run. i put the piglet back down, ran up onto my deck where i knew she probably wouldn't follow me (up steps) and called the dogs, no sign of either one. in the fiasco, they had run inside through the dog door so they were safe.

come to find out, this sow had escaped a pig enclosure the night before and at some point during the night hours, had her litter. only one survived what was most likely coyotes. how this sow found her way to my back yard will always be a mystery. she would have had to travel one mile, down an embankment, through a running creek, up the other side, across dense timber and up into my yard. the farmer came and got her and her baby.

had my dog been chained up and i would have been gone, i would have come home to a dead, mangled dog.