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cyschad

2nd year slump

11 years ago

I have a small 6 x 8 raised bed in my back yard in the Los Angeles area. The first year I would count as successful. Other than a powdery mildew problem I had a decent crop of cukes, zucchini, tomatoes, greens, and chard in the summer and then peas, beets, celery and carrots in the fall/winter.

Since I was growing almost year round I didn't do much to the garden to prep it for spring than take out the winter plants, and add a mix of soil, compost, and chicken manure on top of the old soil.

The 2nd year has been pretty much a disaster with nothing but the chard still producing, an artichoke growing large but never flowering, and everything else either looking very puny and not taking off or producing only a meager crop.

For next year I am not sure whether I should abandon the location (I think one of the problems is a neighbors tree has grown much larger and the garden gets about 6 hours of sun per day only now) or whether I need to be doing something else to prep it for the new season.

Thanks in advance for any insight






Comments (19)

  • 11 years ago

    6 hours of sun is limiting factor. you listed a lot of crops for a 6 x 8 area. May want to consider container gardening for crops that need more sun. I have grown a lot of tomatoes in 5 gallon root pouch grow bags over the years.

  • 11 years ago

    It's hard to make judgements about this without more details about what your plants were actually doing this year. Actually, 6 hours of sun isn't going to result in what you're seeing. Not by a long shot. In fact, I get six hours of sun routinely for many of my beds and they do great. That is kind of odd that a productive bed from a year ago suddenly becomes unproductive, and argues against some unusual nutritional deficiency. Was the chicken manure composted? Just throwing amendments on top of the old soil isn't the best strategy. You really should be digging it in. Of course, airborne herbicide from a neighbor can make life rough as well. Anyone near you doing any such spraying?

    Not knowing anything else, I'd suggest doing a good winter till/dig-in and try again in the spring.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yeah, like Dan says, without further information it could be many things. Off the top of my head... drainage issues resulting in salt build-up, too much manure, pH problems, soil pests.... the list, unfortunately, goes on...

    You can try providing more specific details on the problems, but the first step in fixing the issue... get a soil test.

  • 11 years ago

    Yes, I would have recommended a soil test, but I was thinking that at least mineral deficiencies would not appear within one year. That is, if you have enough magnesium one year, it's not going to disappear the next year. Ph is not likely to change violently in the course of a year either. Still a good idea to do a soil test.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I suspect there were more differences between year one and year two then you have listed. Different weather, different moisture levels, different planting times, different levels of care, etc.?

    But since at least 80% of success or failure boils down to the soil and its level of nutrients that is usually a good place to start. No/low nutrients = poorly performing plants. So what was the bed soil nutrient level originally compared to a bed that has now had year round crop production in it? Sure you added compost and chicken manure on top but is there the necessary micro-herd to turn those into nutrients for the plants?

    Doing consults I can't count the number of gardens I have seen that failed drastically simply due to the addition of overly ripe chicken manure way to close to planting in it. Then there are the gardens that have no developed soil micro-herd because they are too new so no nutrients are available from the compost or manure for the plants to use. Then there are the soil compaction issues that develop over time. Top layering amendments works but takes TIME. If that time isn't allowed then they have to be mixed in to eliminate the soil compaction.

    Just some possible issues to consider.

    Dave

    Edited to add that rgreen and dan's latest posts cam up while I was typing and I agree with their comments.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I wonder if it's not the weird (for us - San Diego county checking in) weather more than anything this year. I've also had a somewhat mediocre summer growing season, and have been fighting with more than my normal share of gray mold, powdery mildew and early blight. I'm even fighting PM on chard, beans and kale, which I've never had problems with before. Nothing impressed me at all compared to last year, and some are just complete flops. Here's to hoping El Nino brings some rain and more normal weather next summer...and doesn't make winter gardening terrible...

  • 11 years ago

    Thanks everyone. I had a tomato plant grow to 2' tall only and a zucchini that has given 4 fruits. None of the beans I started made it past the 2nd set of leaves. Root veggies only grew pencil wide. A lot of seeds would sprout and never grow past an inch tall and some snails and pill bugs ate a lot of sprouts. do agree weather has probably been a factor and am wondering whether the compost or manure wasn't really finished. Will get a soil test. Another problem is I'm assuming with the small size I'm often going with one plant of any given crop so if there are any problems there is no back up.

    Will try some container gardening in sunnier spots but have no experience so it's even more of a mystery!


  • 11 years ago

    I'm guessing it's our 4 year drought. I'm on a well and can water as much as I want (I get my well monitored every 3 months due to a casino going in a couple years ago).Water levels are actually pretty good!

    The last couple of years have been the pits for almost everything! Others I've talked to in the neighborhood are in agreement!

    I get enough to feed us and freeze/dehydrate a little, but not a lot!

    I have also noticed a lot of trees losing branches for no apparent reason (except for the drought)

  • 11 years ago

    With seedlings that don't get larger than a few inches, and beans not making it past the second set of leaves, I'd be worried about something serious. Do your trust who you got your compost from? Did you apply new compost the second year from someone who might not know what they're doing? Persistant herbicide-laced compost is becoming an issue in many parts of the country. It's sprayed on grasses that cows eat. So it's not a matter of compost being "finished", but polluted. There was some discussion here about that a few weeks ago. A bioassay is the right way to test for it. Just plunk some big seeds (pea, bean) in a moist bowl of your compost and see what happens to them.

  • 11 years ago

    @dan no I do not trust the source of the compost. the vermicompost was good I made it myself; the rest came from a big box store. I think I have found a better source now.

    When did everything get so complicated... I've taken a long break from gardening but it seems like it was simpler back in the day!

    will try the seed test!

    Thanks


  • 11 years ago

    You know, everyone I know out there is having a bad time gardening this year. Virus outbreaks have been bad, looks like it is curly-top virus. But, that's not the only factor--something else is going on. It's like there's something in the water (lack thereof?), but who knows why it has been a bad year. I just know that if my parents and grandparents are having a bad year, it must be bad for everyone.


    Hope next season is better--starting with really good compost won't hurt. Post if you figure out what went wrong.

  • 11 years ago

    So I was digging in the garden in order to get my soil samples for soil test and bioassay.. And I found what I think could be the culprit -- tree roots!

    so much information out there and not sure what to do. When I was a kid gardening involved the backbreaking work of turning about 2 feet of soil in our beds every spring. I didn't really know why I was doing it other than Dad told me to. Some say now that that is bad for the soil so I didn't do it with this bed but I think I'd be in a lot better shape had I done it.

    Still going to do the tests though.

  • 11 years ago

    Well, tree roots will compete for nutrients with surface plants, but they won't keep seedlings from growing ... unless the tree is a black walnut. I have to assume those tree roots were there in your first (reasonably successful) year as well. You're looking for something that happened in the last year.

  • 11 years ago

    So many factors at play.. So I did the test with the beans. Everything germinated, then a bunch of damn pill bugs found all the seed pots and ate all but one of the plants. I know it's been kind of controversial on this board but add me to the camp of firm believers that pill bugs eat live plants as I saw them doing it.

    I've pretty much been live and let live with them, but I think they are out of control at this point and I need to go to war with them.

  • 11 years ago

    OK, it sounds like you can be confident about your compost now. I'm still very puzzled about seedlings that never got larger than a few inches. Can weird weather really do that? Maybe over-application of poorly composted manure? Again, I tend to think that nutrients are NOT an issue, since this was once a successful bed. It's hard to remove nutrients from a bed. A soil test is still a good idea, as pH problems or salt could hamper growth.

  • 11 years ago

    Yes, I am interested to see the results of the soil test as well! I'll let y'all know what I find out.

  • 11 years ago

    The results of my soil test are in and...

    i still can't get them bc the place I went won't email me the results! Haha (I'm pretty sure they just want me to come in so they can sell me some stuff). In the meantime I've started a little container garden (3 of those tarp fabric pots) and am enjoying it so thinking I may just go that direction.

    Someday I'll have a day off work when the garden center is open and I'll get my test results and see what's going on :). The raised bed for now has turned into a convenient spot for a compost heap...

  • 11 years ago

    Wow, you pay for a test and they won't send you the result? They also sell amendments to fix soil problems? You might be careful about those results. I'd rather have an independent tester that isn't out to make money on problems that their test identifies.

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