Yes you can do that with these - anything you see used as a street tree that has grown out over the street has to be branching high enough for trucks to pass beneath.

You might think about Freeman maples since cultivars of these sold have tended to be ones with upright branching, which could make it easier to get clearance.

http://www.chicagolandgrows.org/trees/marmomaple.php

if you mean.. can you 'limb it up' .... making a bare trunk .... yes... as tall as you want ... with the proper pruning techniques ... and that pruning could start a year or two after planting ... there is never really any hurry with trees.. you can always do it next year... but you cant glue them back on ...a new transplant.. needs all its leaves for 2 years.. to grow a root mass ...

i would go no bigger than a 4 to 6 foot transplant ... they simply grow too fast ... to mess around with anything larger ... as larger transplants .. will take longer to get back to a good growth rate ...

will you be doing this yourself.. or hire out the job.. if you .. new post about how to plant a tree ...

fall is a great time.. to choose a fall leaf colored tree... because you can see the color it will be ... do not get worried about planting a tree .. and then all its leaves falling off ... fall is one of the best times to plant ... when the trees are dormant above ... but still able to grow roots

i dont think you told us where you are ... nor what your soil is ... and how far you plan on planting.. from the house... not many of us.. are happy about planting real close to the house ... stuff happens ...

more facts please

ken

Thanks for the responses, I am in western PA as mentioned above and I believe that puts me in zone 6a. I would probably be planting about 15-20' from my deck which would be about 30-35' from my house. Doe this seem like a good distance to give me the shade I want w/o being too close?

The place I will get the tree from still has them in the ground and will not dig them out until they go dormant in the last week of October I believe and then would be planted early November. I think all of the trees that the plan to pull are 2-2.5" caliper.

The place I will get the tree from still has them in the ground and will
not dig them out until they go dormant in the last week of October

==>>> fantastic.. a man who knows his business ... knows his trees ...

personally.. i wouldnt go that big ... there is little instant gratification in trees... but you do what ever you want ...

and do what i said above... make an appointment to go 'tag' the tree you want ... when it is in full color ... then have it delivered and installed.. at the proper PLANTING TIME ...

i presume this will be hired out to many men with the proper tools to install this monster .. insure a warranty ...

if not.. dont hurt yourself.... and let us know.. we have a handy planting guide ...

proper water for up to 3 years .. is imperative ... and it has nothing to do with lawn sprinklers ...

ken

Js, I would add that "raising up"-style pruning is very doable, but please do resist the urge to take off too many tiers of branches at any one time. Far better to just gradually raise the crown-I'm talking years here-so that the tree does not develop goofy structure, does not unnecessarily have too much foliage taken away before it's necessary to do so (Leaves produce the food that the plant lives and grows on) and to avoid sunscald and other anomalies that can develop on shade-tolerant species like all maples are. IOW's take a go-slow approach. Those little wispy branches down low on the trunk are not really in your way as they are flexible, but they are also temporary. Finally, do yourself and your tree a favor and look up subordination pruning, a la Ed Gilman et al. An absolute necessity if one would have a fast-grower like say, 'Autumn Blaze' maple not only develop quickly but also with a strong structure. Many oaks on the other hand almost need none of this practice, but going back to AB maple, an absolute must. Lots of competing leaders, codominant stems, crossing branches, v-crotches, etc. would be the result if a variety like AB is planted and then neglected.

+oM

I believe your distances are good for the larger maples.

Hi jsbeckton,

A picture speaks a thousand words. Here is a sugar maple planted about 1860. This is the habit that I would expect from a sugar maple. Based on your comments in your OP I would steer you away from maples. Consider instead either 'Princeton' Elm or 'Green Vase' Zelkova both of which will have the habit you want. Unfortunately if your local grower only carries "product line" he is not likely to have these and you will have to look elsewhere.

That's why I was leaning towards a red maple cultivar that won't take a century to mature!

I have been very pleased with Redpointe Maple across various sites. We do not plant Autumn Blaze any more as so many have 1/2 of the tree fall off with a wind storm unless corrective measures are taken throughout the life of the tree. The branch structure of Redpointe is much improved over A. Blaze and you still achieve a fast growth rate and good fall color.

You would also be surprised at how quickly some of the sugar maple cultivars grow such as 'Fall Fiesta' and have fantastic fall color.

I agree with Sam, though, that if you have to limb it up that far I'm not sure I would go with the maple but rather something that has a growth habit more akin to what you are after. Other ideas would be Tulip Tree, Exclamation Planetree/Sycamore, and Triumph Elm. These will all grow quickly and are quite amenable to higher canopies.

Ok, think I am going to get both and AB and a Red Sunset. I can either get a big 2" caliper from the nursery for $170 or a small 3/4" from my local Lowes. Would a 2" tree be a better bet because I can see more of its branching pattern? Also would the 2" tree be noticibly larger in say 10 years than the smaller tree?

Lowes is selling them for about $45

All depends on quality of stock. The thing with any plant is that you really don't know the quality unless you have been with it through the growing cycle. Sometimes major problems only show themselves several years down the road.

Both types of maples can easily have stem gridling roots in either growing system unless care was taken to prevent these. Or they can be planted too deep, have been grown in the container too long, poor initial stock, etc....

$170 is pretty decent for a 2" tree, particularly if they have both received good pruning/care throughout their production cycle. Here in Iowa I've never been impressed with Red Sunset Maples but they are extremely popular in many parts of the U.S. so maybe that is just here. Personally I like the fall color of the October Glory Maple better and also the fact that it holds its leaves longer in the fall is a bonus.

It is anyone's guess which will be larger in the long-run. I've seen AB never miss a bit after being installed from a B&B and in five years it is well on its way to being a shade tree, growing 3'+ a year. Other times they don't. Wish there were a simple answer but the truth is......it depends.

I would recommend the smaller one from Lowe's. Just be careful about planting at proper depth and correct any circling roots, but my small container AB purchase about 10 years ago (same small size you are looking at) has outperformed the larger B&B counterpart that I also purchased around the same time. Definitely read up on proper pruning techniques as AB will develop multiple leaders very fast if you don't stay on top of it.

If you scroll down towards the end of this post you can see how my Lowe's container tree performed over 10 yrs...

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3194970/whats-the-biggest-thing-have-you-have-grown-this-last-decade

Man, the more I read the less sure I am what I should do!

I am now thinking that one tree will not really be enough as I have about 60' of my house to try to shade. I am currently thinking that I may need to place 2 trees about 25' apart to get the coverage I need. would 2 large cultivar red maples suffer with a bit of overlap? I should also note that I am 36 and expect to be here for another 30-35 years but not much longer (dead or on a beach somewhere). Therefore, I am looking for something that works years 10-30 rather than years 30-50. Maybe one bigger maple and one smaller? or have the second tree be something else that complements the maple?

Glad I haven't puled the trigger yet as I seem to change my mind every other day!

Thanks for the advice.

JS, not sure if this has been asked-I hate going back through whole threads-but do you know the general pH range of your soil? If it turns out that you are in an area of alkaline soils, or even just neutral, that may dictate to a certain extent what will work for you. Additionally, I would not be afraid of the Freeman maples, things like 'Autumn Blaze' and other more recent introductions. They handle most any soil type with aplomb, and get up and grow with what almost amounts to too much rapidity, that in terms of keeping up with the necessary structural pruning these things will need. They sure do grow though, and that appears to be one of your key criteria.

+oM

I am waiting for a soil test kit to check the pH.

JS,

Does your nursery have Redpointe Maples? I've had one large tree from Schmidt I planted 5 years ago and it easily grows 2-3' a year and has fantastic fall color every year. You get the vigor of Freeman Maples (maybe a tad slower than Autumn Blaze overall), high pH tolerance, and much better branching structure.

If you are going for something incredibly fast growing (even faster than Autumn Blaze) Autumn Fantasy Freeman Maple is a good choice. Those we've planted grow 3-5' every year. Only downside we've seen is fall color can be more variable compared to Autumn Blaze. In good years it is fantastic, in not so good years not so much.

Good luck!

Bruce

No redpointe, here is the list http://www.eislernurseries.com/store/index.php?target=categories&category_id=157

With any of these you are talking about many years before a significant area of shade is produced. Do you want to wait that long, or should you be looking at architectural solutions? Maybe in combination with smaller, less overwhelming trees being planted - instead of trying to create a large area of shade with trees alone. Trees that may eventually become out of scale, not match the size of the house, fill the gutters with leaves and so on.

Think I am set with shade tree options and understand it's not going to be instant. They will be planted on the southwest/west side of my house so I will get shade on my west deck after they are 12-15' tall. I already have a roof so mid day is not a big deal, it's later afternoon and early evening when the sun gets lower and shines under the roof that gets me. It also heats the brick on the west side of my house to 95-100 degrees and that heat radiates long after sunset.

Did some measuring and think I can get away with planting two trees with the following minimum spacings:

25' from house
40' from neighbors house
40' between trees
13' from paver patio

That would allow me to plant both trees side by side off the southwest and west side of my house.

Assuming my soil conditions check out, I would also like to plant a sugar maple about another 50-60' further west. This way if the closer trees get to big and have to come out in 30-40 years (not that they should) there will still be a well established sugar maple out on the west side of my house to give that much needed afternoon/evening shade.

Here in east-central Wisconsin, the growth rate of Freeman cultivars is such that they are hard to keep up with in terms of structural pruning. Totally disagree with Embo's comments in that direction-these things will be shading the yard much sooner than you might be thinking. Of course, along with that you get lots of V-crotches and codominant leaders up the wazoo if you don't have the ability or wallet to keep them pruned. These are not plant-it-and-forget-it trees by any means, but if it's quick shade (and other attributes) you're after, Freeman maples, at least the ultra-common 'Autumn blaze', will be shading your yard much sooner than may be implied in some of these posts, that depending, of course, on your growing conditions.

And in that regard, I don't think there's anything special about our conditions here. We can get too dry, we sometimes seem to get too much rain, we're in a cussedly cold part of the world...etc. But grow they do!

+oM

Understood that I will need to watch for issues with the Autumn blaze.

Did a soil drain test today and I am getting about 2"/hr. Does that work for the AB, Red Sunset or October Glory?

Also looking to plant a sugar maple if the conditions turn out right. Sending in my soil sample tomorrow to find out for sure but my soil doesn't seem to react at all to vinegar. Also, baking soda added to a soil/distilled water sample didn't seem to do much either so I think I may be close to a neutral pH.

More than likely, good to go. I applaud your attention to this sometimes-overlooked detail-soil pH-but I agree with your assessment. And one final word about soil pH and plant growth: It is indeed a crucial aspect of arboriculture to know of these matters. But sometimes, I think we tend to make it seem as if trees exist on some knife-edge of suitable conditions. I say that a quick glance at the world, at least where it hasn't been paved over yet, shows us a planet teaming with green growth in almost every nook and cranny. Circum-neutral is great for a lot of species.

+oM

for a nice shade tree I reccomend sugar maple (away from power lines) for ornamenta/landscaping purposes you may want a japanese maple