Aphids.

Yep. Aphids. Blast them off with water and yes, 50/50 alcohol will hit what you miss.

They grow up to be really creepy looking!

I look forward to seeing your Black Prince bloom. They are stunning! BTW - I started a bunch of new plants from the leaves from the inflo after blooming was done. They rooted better than leaves from the plant. And now I have a bunch of little plants.

Really gross. Thanks for the advice. This is my only Echeveria and I have it because I just absolutely love the look of them. I will take your suggestion on propagation!

-Erica

You may have to repeat the treatment about a week later, I try to do it every 3 days for two weeks....but that doesn't always get strictly followed.

Thanks. I'm also dealing with a significant mealy infestation of one of my Semp pots. It has my favorite, S. 'Oddity', which poses a significant challenge when dealing with mealy's. The plant is not taking it well!

-Erica

That's where the half alcohol/half water spray comes in. Wait til the plant has dried out a bit and just drench all of those little nooks and crannies. You could probably unpot it and keep it bare rooted for treatment. You could do the swish with insecticidal soap that way. Just throwing a bunch of ideas out there.

I got irritated last week and dumped straight 70% IPA all over them... Then I rinsed with a bit of water. It's hard to tell if I got them all and I may have to unpot it if that didn't do the trick. I was thinking about soap too but I've never used it that way before.

-Erica

Erica- Will you consider using a systemic in the future? for preventative measures of course; these also have a tendency to return.

Well I usually do not. I am however concerned about bringing these inside for the winter and had considered treating all of my plants to ensure nothing gets in the house. Level of care goes down because they don't require it and they are crammed into close quarters.

What would you recommend, Neil?

-Erica

I'm not as afraid of bugs, I guess....maybe I just haven't been taught a lesson yet.

I'm not afraid of bugs, I don't want them destroying my plants.

-Erica

Erica- Andy had recommended "bayer tree and shrub" for me. $19 for a small bottle at HD. Mix 2 tablespoons with a gallon of water. Use that to water your plants as you normally would. Recommended use is twice a year. Because of the infestation that has seemed to plague California with Scale, Mealy and Aphids, i will do a third application.

The first treatment I applied was in April. I am about to do another this weekend. Before January I will do another if i have to.

Doing this has given me a lot of peace of mind. I have done everything I could think of to get rid of these pests to no avail. This treatment has been the only one that has worked because of the active ingredient " imidacloprid" that Howard mentioned.

Must mention this: imidacloprid and other Neonictionoid pesticides are also harmful to beneficial insects such as bees which is why many people are reluctant to use them. So, it comes down to personal choice.

Also** If you decide to use it..make sure you're not expecting rain as it would get washed away or diluted. The plants need a few days to take in the pesticide into its cells for it to be effective.

During this past year..I have traveled throughout Mexico, all the way up to Washington State, taken side trips to Arizona and Nevada and everywhere I stopped to look at succulents I saw scale, mealy bugs and aphids. I just posted a bunch of pics from my Labor Day outing and if you look closely at all the plants i snapped pictures of, they all have it. All of my neighbors plants have them too; if not one or the other, all three! That is why i call this a "plague."

Prevention is key.

Thanks, Neil. I personally do try to avoid neons. I know that using on my succulents will not kill a bee, but I am against the fact that the product exists.

I think mealy bugs are worse here than last sunmer, but not as bad as you are describing. Could it be the weather?

-Erica

Erica- It probably is the CHANGE in weather patterns. I don't ever recall it being this humid in San Diego before. We used to experience heat..yes, but a DRY heat. I notice the winter time too is a bit cooler. For the first time..the past 2 winters, I actually put the heat on.

Hold on a sec. I want to snap a quick pic of what I feel this humidity has done to my coprosma (mirror plant).

this is the 4th year with the mirror plants. i have 4 other varieties and they all look like this.

They are heat and drought tolerant. They look like i haven't watered them in months. The coprosma are usually vibrant and alive looking all year long. My succulents have been looking a bit dull too.

Here's another pic that I took monday in a public park.

This was one of the worse ones. The scale is so bad on this you soon won't see a plant!

All the succulents in the park have this or mealies or aphids or all three! I walk around the neighborhood a lot as i've been told it's good for me. I always bring a camera and when i get home and look at the pics on my monitor, there they are.

Also for the first time my friend in Manhattan who has a rooftop garden has been affected by them too. I wish it were just paranoia on my part but, the pictures say differently.

I know you'll take care of your situation. I just don't want for you to keep HAVING to take care of it. I mean this is supposed to be 'fun' and an enjoyable thing and I don't want these bugs to take that away from us. See ya later, i'm off to make my phony philly cheeze's again!

I think we have pesticides to thank for the out of control pest problems. But, that's just my opinion.

Neil, for some reason scale absolutely disgusts me. Thankfully I haven't had that issue yet and have never seen it out and about.

We also have pesticides to thank for destroying our ecosystems.

Laticauda, are you saying we have an out of control pest problem because we, as a society, rely so heavily on them and use them in everything? Just to clarify what you mean.

I agree with Christopher in that I will not use some chemical that has been proven to kill beneficial insects or animals. I don't care if using it specifically on my plants will kill a bee or not. I care that these products exist, people know they are harmful but still use them, and no one seems to care. Did we learn absolutely nothing about the use of DDT?

-Erica

Yes, Erica, that's kind of what I'm saying. The ripple effect. Pesticides don't check ID to make sure they are killing the right thing.

Similar to the reason I don't use sterilized, soilless substrate in my potted plants. I used to think I had a black thumb because I did everything "right" by nuking all ingredients but fungus always took over. It wasn't until I understood that beneficial microbes keep the fungus at bay and your plant roots healthier.

Just killing everything with no prejudice? I'm pretty sure that could account for most of the problems the world has today. One way or another.

And that's not including the unseen adverse effects on people who have genetically been exposed to these poisons for generations. Don't be surprised when kids start coming out with gills en masse. God forbid.

Erica- I still have the same sentiment that you do with the pesticides. When others ask for advice about these top 3 insects in particular and I mention my own regimen, I always inform them that it is harmful to beneficial insects especially to bees and ultimately the ecosystem.

I held off using it for quite a while until the third time my plants were hit with the infestation.

I rationalized it for my situation:

#1 my plants are all on a 3rd story balcony. Meaning, I don't get many bees.

# 2 my plants are all grown in containers. The soil/medium used would not be mixed with ground soil.

I also remove any blooms as soon as they've opened especially from echeveria and similar plants. I don't want to risk hummingbirds being harmed even though others have told me that they would not.

Hopefully my use of the pesticide is as responsible as it can be. I would definitely not use one for plants that are planted in ground.

I still search for alternatives though. What could i do that would not involve constantly checking each and every plant, every leaf every day? I need a solution as I will be moving into a new property soon.

laticauda, I do agree that pesticides are being used indiscriminately regardless of what it kills, so you're idea that it is causing more harm than good - more harmful pest infestations - would make sense. A pesticide that also kills spiders and ladybugs depletes natures insecticide. Not as many ladybugs, spiders, or praying mantis to eat the insects that we do not want harming our plants. This is a much more grander issue than just harmful versus beneficial insects for our plants; but something that we are seeing more widespread with invasive species and pollution.

Neil, I understand the thinking behind, "well if it doesn't do any harm when I apply it to my plants, than I am not doing any harm at all." That is not really something I agree with. Personally, I feel like we can all do our part to do what is right. These chemicals are being used knowing the effects they have. It's not just about how it is being used, it's about the fact that it is used at all, that it's available on the market, that no one cares if it is killing our major pollinators because they aren't the ones directly killing them. Does one person make a difference when they say, "I will not buy this product because I know what it is doing on a larger scale," maybe, maybe not. I understand the desire to protect what you love at all costs but for me, I would rather use any other means necessary to control an infestation, including discarding the plant, than to use something that goes against what I believe in. I am sure it is much different for those living in your area dealing with such widespread infestations; I can't even imagine what it is like. I am picturing in my mind those old videos of DDT sprayers with children running behind the spray in a cloud of death.

-Erica

Erica.

Chills, sister...chills.

While it's frustrating to not have access to highly effective and recommended systemics, it makes me happier that they are restricted in Canada.

The way garden center 'experts' recommend pesticide use on garden and even house plants is horrifying here.

Maybe it'll encourage companies and people to come up with better solutions?

Everything leeches into the ground water eventually anyway. Responsible use is important and helpful, but definitely no use is better.

Erica - my neighbor (the botanist) does not use insecticides. He told me to use Dawn and water to spray for mealies. He said to add a few drops of vegetable oil, too, so it will stick to eggs and adults long enough to smother and kill them.

He was specific about Dawn, but I find the oil curious. Don't they use Dawn to clean oil off of animals caught in oil spills? Anyway - it works pretty well. Just don't forget to rinse it off. I've fried a few crotons by forgetting!

Erica- This is what you said:

"Neil, I understand the thinking behind, "well if it doesn't do any harm
when I apply it to my plants, than I am not doing any harm at all." That
is not really something I agree with."

I don't agree with it either even though my reaction is contrary. I also wish certain things didn't have to exist either, not just pesticides. I think we (humans) have damaged our eco-system and that's why things have become "unbalanced."

It does bother me to think that I have become in some way part of the problem not only with this but with everything: The clothes i wear..made by slave labor, the foods i eat all treated with pesticides of some type whether it's canned, frozen or fresh. Even organic food is a risk as we really don't "know" how it's grown. (only what they choose to disclose) Not even growing food ourselves is optimal as the very water we drink is of poor quality and even the air we breathe.

It's overwhelming when you really think about how everything is inter-connected and how we've messed things up. I do get where you're coming from.

When I finally move into my new property. I will try to have my succulents that I love and hopefully i will find a way to maintain them without pesticides. I will not have my 2 "rationalizations" to lean on then. If the bugs overtake them then they win. I would not knowingly put chemicals into the earth just because i want to have certain plants.

Crenda- I have tried that approach and it does work, for about a week anyway. And then, they're back again and again. It's maddening.

I have much better luck with alcohol. And I think it depends on the plant, too. My Dracena plants respond well to either spray, but any of my rosettes are harder to treat. And controlling ants helps, but that is a losing battle for me, too.

I agree that this has been a tough year for pests! And I see it all over town. I've never had scale before this year, but I've hit the trifecta of aphids, mealies and scale.

One of my peppers has scale but I think that's due to inadequate light.

Re: having to retreat. You have to be thorough and know thine enemy! Finding out the hatch time from when the egg is laid and time it takes a hatched egg to become a breeding adult. Once you understand those two concepts, eradication should be within reach.

just like lice. *shudder* or scabies.

I'm itching just thinking about it.

Like Howard, I treat with systemic a while before bringing plants in for the winter. When outside, if I have to treat I try to avoid things that would kill pest eaters. Ok my secret phobia is spiders, but even they have free rein in my garden, though they still get terminated if found inside(I used to try to move them alive outside to the garden, but they would invariably scramble up my arm and I would do 'the dance'). Speaking of all this, I know you can buy ladybugs to eat pests- anyone done this and care to share?

ez

I am enjoying this discussion :)

Crenda, I have heard of people who put a little bit of Dawn into their alcohol spray and I have considered doing this as well but never got around to it. I am not sure about the oil either because doesn't soap break down oil? That's why you use it on greasy pots and pans and... ducks and penguins. I really hope scale is not in my near future, I am sorry you've had such a struggle with pests this year. Seems we are all fighting the same battle no matter where we are.

I think the difficult thing about it is, as Neil mentioned, these natural insecticides do work for getting rid of unwanted pests, but they are just not the same as using a systemic that protects the plant. That is why it is hard to resist resorting to them and giving yourself justifications for doing so.

I think it is our responsibility as growers to really know what we are using to protect and feed our plants. A lot of the members here that stick around have more than just a couple plants to care for. This increases their risk of dangerous pest infestation and responsibility for the use of the insecticides they use.

Neil, will your plants be outside most of the year? I think it is harder to control pests in an environment that caters to them for much of the year, as opposed to those of us that have to bring our plants in to a controlled environment for half of the year. I hope you are able to find a suitable balance for pest control!

-Erica

Erica- Yes, Now they are. I say now because I still have some of my original plants from when I left New York. I used a shipping company to move my junk as i call it and whatever plants I could bring went into my car. (They are still with me).

I have had the good fortune of living a bi-coastal lifestyle since i was a child. Not rich or privelged, my Dad was military. Homebase was always New York or San Diego.

In between and all on my own I tried living in other cities: Miami, Austin, Lawton, oklahoma, and Seattle. All nice places to visit but, i didn't want to stay.

As I was getting more into cactus and succulents I decided to move back to San Diego and leave New York. I came out here for a semi-retirement : )

I could no longer stand the commute from suburbia into Manhattan. I had enough of that.

I had enough of moving the car at 6am because of alternate side of the street parking.

I could no longer stand the humidity..even in winter it could be humid too.

I could not stand my $500+ electric bill every month either.

So i decided to move to my 2nd home ..San Diego.

I think this is year 5 .that i'm here and I hate to disillusion you and any others who may feel this is a paradise because, it's not. At one time it was, but not now.

The weather is not what it used to be. I just shut off the AC about 20 minutes ago and i am just sweating to death. My main concern is that this cannot be good for my plants!

This was one of the main reasons I left New York and Miami- **(*) humidity!

A few weeks ago i started house hunting. Being the weather has now changed here and I may not be able to have succulents anyway (not the way I would like to have them because of these bug infestations), I am considering doing my house hunting somewhere else. If I were younger (and braver) i would consider Korea! All my military friends say it's a happening place. And, they have some awesome succulents! lol.

For some reason...Colorado seems to be calling out to me : )

Can you recommend a place?