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monicabf

Rookie mistake (maybe)

I made the mistake of repotting my new citrus trees (about one year old) directly into a 20 inch pot. After reading lots of threads on this web site I realize I should have increased the pot size slowly.

my question is should I repot into smaller pots using the 5-1-1 mix or just leave well enough alone and gradually adjust the soil into the 5-1-1 mix? Thanks for all the help. There is such a plethora of knowledge on this site I wish I would have found it sooner

:-)

Comments (7)

  • 11 years ago

    Hi, Monica, Sorry about the mess that was made of the thread you previously posted. To a very large degree, your choice of medium/soil determines what size pot is appropriate. The more water-retentive a soil is, the more critical pot size is. When using soils like the gritty mix or a well-made 5:1:1 mix, you can grow very small plants in very large pots. There would be no concern about the plant being over-potted in the gritty mix, and minimal concern in the 5:1:1 mix as long as you're somewhat mindful of any heavy-handedness on the watering can.

    This is a copy/paste of something that outlines the reasoning:

    Choosing
    an Appropriate Size Container

    How large a container ‘can’ or ‘should’ be, depends on the
    relationship between the mass of the plant material you are working with and
    your choice of soil. We often concern ourselves with "over-potting"
    (using a container that is too large), but "over-potting" is a term
    that arises from a lack of a basic understanding about the relationship we will
    look at, which logically determines appropriate container size.

    It's often parroted that you should only move up one
    container size when "potting-up". The reasoning is, that when potting
    up to a container more than one size larger, the soil will remain wet too long
    and cause root rot issues, but it is the size/mass of the plant material you
    are working with, and the physical properties of the soil you choose that
    determines both the upper & lower limits of appropriate container size -
    not a formulaic upward progression of container sizes. In many cases, after
    root pruning a plant, it may even be appropriate to step down a container size
    or two, but as you will see, that also depends on the physical properties of
    the soil you choose. It's not uncommon for me, after a repot/root-pruning to
    pot in containers as small as 1/5 the size as that which the plant had been
    growing in prior to the work.

    Plants grown in ‘slow’ (slow-draining/water-retentive) soils
    need to be grown in containers with smaller soil volumes so that the plant can
    use water quickly, allowing air to return to the soil before root issues beyond
    impaired root function/metabolism become a limiting factor. We know that the anaerobic
    (airless) conditions that accompany soggy soils quickly kill fine roots and
    impair root function/metabolism. We also know smaller soil volumes and the root
    constriction that accompany them cause plants to both extend branches and gain
    o/a mass much more slowly - a bane if rapid growth is the goal - a boon if
    growth restriction and a compact plant are what you have your sights set on.

    Conversely, rampant growth can be had by growing in very
    large containers and in very fast soils where frequent watering and fertilizing
    is required - so it's not that plants rebel at being potted into very large
    containers per se, but rather, they rebel at being potted into very large
    containers with a soil that is too slow and water-retentive. This is a key
    point.

    We know that there is an inverse relationship between soil
    particle size and the height of the perched water table (PWT) in containers. As
    particle size increases, the height of the PWT decreases, until at about a
    particle size of just under 1/8 inch, soils will no longer hold perched water.
    If there is no perched water, the soil is ALWAYS well aerated, even when the
    soil is at container capacity (fully saturated).

    So, if you aim for a soil (like the gritty mix) composed
    primarily of particles larger than 1/16", there is no upper limit to
    container size, other than what you can practically manage. The lower size
    limit will be determined by the soil volume's ability to allow room for roots
    to ’run’ and to furnish water enough to sustain the plant between irrigations.
    Bearing heavily on this ability is the ratio of fine roots to coarse roots. It
    takes a minimum amount of fine rootage to support the canopy under high water
    demand. If the container is full of large roots, there may not be room for a
    sufficient volume of the fine roots that do all the water/nutrient delivery
    work and the coarse roots, too. You can grow a very large plant in a very small
    container if the roots have been well managed and the lion's share of the
    rootage is fine. You can also grow very small plants, even seedlings, in very
    large containers if the soil is fast (free-draining and well-aerated) enough
    that the soil holds no, or very little perched water.

    I have just offered clear illustration why the oft repeated
    advice to ‘resist pottting up more than one pot size at a time’, only
    applies when using heavy, water-retentive soils. Those using well-aerated soils
    are not bound by the same restrictions. As the ht and volume of the perched
    water table are reduced, the potential for negative effects associated with
    over-potting are diminished in a direct relationship with the reduction - up to
    the point at which the soil holds no (or an insignificant amount) of perched
    water and over-potting pretty much becomes a non-issue.

    *******************************************************************

    Rather than repot at this late date, it would probably be better (if you're worried about excess water retention) to employ some strategies that will help reduce water retention for now and then address the repotting issue at a more appropriate time.

    Al

    Monica bf N. Carolina zone 7B thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Al - I was actually a little hesitant to post again.....lol (just kidding)

    Boy I really wish I had found this site before ever starting my container gardening. The information on this site is amazing and SO VERY helpful. As I said rookie mistake. I thought I was doing the right thing by using MG cactus, citrus and palm potting soil. It obviously is more water retentive than I knew.

    our weather will be getting better this week, back up to 75 and sunny. I'll move them back outside and it should help dry up the soil. I did repot (in a 5-1-1 mix) my Meyer as that one was in a 14 inch pot my Eureka's are in 20 inch pots which are all elevated and have about a dozen holes drilled out of the bottoms.

    i guess I should leave well enough alone at this point but do you think adding a little turface would help dry things out a bit? I currently have them on my enclosed porch with 2 ceiling fans on low and 2 windows open.

    I can't thank you and everyone else on this site that has given me so much GREAT advice (even when it's controversial :-)

  • 11 years ago

    I wouldn't use Turface as way to reduce water retention - grit or perlite would do a better job as a temporary measure. Ideally, you'll soon be building whatever amount of water retention you think you'll need into your soils and won't have to worry so much about that property.

    I'm glad the strife didn't dampen your enthusiasm. As the thread progressed and other voices joined, I hope you were left feeling the real issue wasn't that the advice I gave was controversial. There is another set of dynamics in play that sometimes makes it difficult to get information that isn't unnecessarily limiting into the hands of growers needing or wanting that kind of info. Even if you decide not to press the info you get into immediate service, if something does go wrong with a root system in the future, you'll already have a good idea about where to focus corrections. No one is interested in twisting arms to get you going down a particular path, but most of us do have a keen interest in helping you gather reliable info that at least has the potential to elevate the plane on which you get to interact with your plants. If you haven't already, you'll soon learn that the more you learn and come to understand, the more potential reward in terms of personal satisfaction you'll find to tap into.

    Al

  • 11 years ago

    Im enthusiastic as ever :-)

    actually I did go ahead and add perlite I'm so glad that's what you recommended. I wasn't sure if adding turface would be beneficial as well.

    i guess I'm already learning something!

    Thanks again.


  • 11 years ago

    There's been so much activity around here lately that I don't remember if I suggested some reading for you. Did you read the thread about Water Movement & Retention in Container Media? I say it all the time, but I think it represents the biggest step forward you can take at any one time as a container gardener.

    Lol - if you're anxious to learn, there's no shortage of opportunities around here.

    Al

    Monica bf N. Carolina zone 7B thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
  • 11 years ago

    You'll trees will be fine. Just don't overwater and make sure they are getting good light. I would not repot now.

    Jane