SC , wow , really ?

perfect pic ,,,just what I was looking for

I presume other species are different

thanks , ron

Different yes, but more alike than different. That is, little winged seeds are what you'll find, be it pine, spruce, fir, even Cupressaceae like Thuja have little winged appendages around the actual seeds. And as SC did such a good job of explaining, if you're handling cones that are already opened, you've missed the seeds.

+oM

I just plant em , don't dissect em ,,but have always wondered

AND WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH CONIFERS PRODUCING CONES WITH NO SEEDS

seems if a plant produces fruit , it should contain seeds

my neighbor gave me cones from an abies koreana ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know , the one the needles curl under to reveal white undersides,,,,,,,,any way we just crumbled cones and spread in bright shade ,,,probably not even viable

also had a Zundert with cones,,,didn't know if viable,,,should have lifted skirt , and looked for dangley things

ron

Inadequate pollination. I once gathered many cones of Abies concolor-from a particularly nice tree-but since there were no other Abies concolors around, lots of duds. Looked like viable seeds, but they were empty, devoid of contents.

+om

Sometimes with native conifers, you can get away with just throwing seeds around an lightly covering, allowing nature to do it's thing... but even then, conifers seeds are programmed to germinate at staggered rates in order to ensure the species lives on in the event of natural disaster event.

Best bet is to ensure you extract the seeds, cold stratify as needed, and then plant in a well drained 50/50 peat/perlite mix. Picea abies is a nice one to grow, because they are fool proof. I must have had 95% germination last spring and probably about 80% made it through the summer as well, and I really didn't babysit them. I would water *When I remembered* and whatnot... kinda lazy. Chinese hemlock I had good germination rates, but my lack of focus on aftercare caused me to lose all but 3 of them. Japanese hemlock did well. Lower germination rates (maybe 60%) but about 30% made it through the summer... I am surprised at how slow they grow though...wow. The seedlings are less than 1 inch tall, compared to 2-3 inches for the Chinese hemlock and Picea abies.

Growing from seed if fun, but does take patience. My long term focus is on building an inventory of understock for grafting, which is why I'm focused on Picea abies and Abies koreana... the ones I need the most of

sc77's Norway Spruce cone looks to me like it is riddled with cone worms, so I'd be surprised if there's much viable seed left, if any.

Resin

Resin, what specifically do you see that indicates that? Cone looked perfect. Collected in late September while still green and fully sealed. Same grove of Norway's that I collected from last year with 95% germination.

I got about 50-70 healthy looking seeds from the cone in the above pic. No indication of infestation that I could see. Guess I'll have to wait until spring to find out... Will update then

Sorry, been forgetting to look in!

"Resin, what specifically do you see that indicates that?"

It's the way the cone scales look - well, literally - moth-eaten. Holes through the scales, bits of frass (caterpillar turds!), and generally 'messy'.

Resin

Interesting, thanks for the follow up.

Two questions:

1. The seeds inside looked physically intact/undamaged. If there had been worms, would the seeds have also been damages (I.e. been chewed on)

2. If comes are collected while still sealed/green can they still have worms somehow?

I'm hoping I don't go through the effort of sowing these seeds and get no yeilds.

Thanks,

Shawn

With regards to "wild-sowing" of conifer seeds, I'd like to relate a little story. so, up at my land is a large area of what's known colloquially as a "cedar swamp", that is, a more or less monoculture of straight species Thuja occidentalis. This green, green tree, always associated with moisture, is perhaps somewhat ironically thought to have arisen at this site following forest fires in the "dustbowl" 1930s. So, what is it about a forest fire that leads to such exuberant colonization by this species? In short, the ground-clearing effects of the burn, the ridding of the duff layer and the subsequent exposure of bare mineral soil, combined with the charred black landscape are considered ideal circumstances for this, and I suspect, many other conifer species to take a site. So what's the pertinence to this discussion? It suggests that flinging seed randomly, in leafy areas, perhaps into grassy or forb-laden ground, is almost certain to fail. The seeds need seed-to-soil contact, plain and simple. Then of course, it gets tricky. So one might get lots of germination, but those same characteristics of the site now leave it open to desiccation. So you have to have some luck. A fire-charred landscape followed by, at a minimum, at least one consistently moist and not too hot growing season just about has to unfold. The landscape there and across many parts of NE Wisconsin suggests that just this did occur.

+oM

Looks like the seeds were good! Also got excellent germination on Abies Koreana

Nice! Are the parent trees some especially nice specimens?

It looks like those seedlings need more light and cooler temperatures. They are growing too tall and skinny.

Nice germination rate though!

Mike

@Tom, nope just regular Picea abies. I will monitor them for a few years and see if anything unique appears, and put those aside, the rest will be used for grafting. This is my second year growing my own understock, so I have two trays of 1yr old seedlings overwintering in my garage as well... eventually they will be big enough to graft onto.

@Mike, Interestingly, last year I did not have any supplemental light, other than the natural light that shines in through the windows of my sun room and the seedlings were shorter & stockier. This year, I added 4, 2ft long T5 bulbs, and they are shooting for the moon! I keep the temp @ 55-60, with bottom heat @ 70.

I was thinking that maybe they are getting too much light! During the day they get natural light until 5PM, when I get home from work I put them under the T5 lights for about 5 to 6 more hours.

sc , nice ! thanks for adding to post

ron

Very nice. I'd turn off the bottom heat and get them within 2-4 inches of the lights.

And thanks for the update.

tj