This is probably not the right forum. Try the vegetable garden forum, or perhaps the fruit forum.

I don't imagine many people grow varieties "for leaf harvest". The leaves are just a by-product. Plus, as with most fermented foods, cooking them tends to destroy much of the antioxidant compounds like resveratrol which is why the primary source of the compound is in the grapes, the wine, not the leaves.

But check out

Fruit & Orchards forum: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/fruit

Dave

You can use any leaves for stuffed grape leaves. My grandparents used to pick them off the wild grapes on the side of the road. They were awesome! Just get them tender.

digdirt, stuffed grape leaves are a middle eastern staple known to us as Lebanese hor dourves. Most Americans are introduced to these as a pricey appetizer in steak houses along side tabbouleh, hummus or stuffed cabbage rolls. Entire continents consume stuffed grape leaves as a staple. Some countries like Egypt consider it a matter of national pride. Americans refer to it as "Lebanese" denoting middle eastern origins. There are variances in cooking techniques that require very little heat allowing more of the benefit of resveratol. Indeed, they are common served cold. The amount of resveratol contained within the leaves is dependent upon the variety. It is noted that there is a difference.

My chore is to find a variety that is higher in resveratol in the leaves that will survive in my climate. No grape vines worthy of even canning truly last in my area. They grow, but the grapes are of little significance except for the birds.

In the end, I wonder if there is a difference in taste.

So, thanks for sharing that experience, Peter. It's something that I really love. I also stuff cabbage, zucchini, peppers and eggplant. Did your grandparents live in NY? I'm making an assumption that it was a colder climate. If they harvested wild grape leaves in such a climate, that is extremely hopeful for that is the biggest downfall of my own climate.

I understand the role grape leaves play in various cuisines and they are a regular part of our diet as well as wild grape vines are quite common here. But that wasn't my point.

<I'm looking for someone who might have extensive knowledge of some understanding or some experience growing varieties of grape vines for grape leave harvest.>

My point was that most grow grape vines for first, the grapes, and only secondarily for the leaves. Given the ready availability of leaves in stores it would be much less expensive to just buy them as needed than to grow grape vines expressly for the leaves.

And that still leaves the problem that exposure to heat destroys the resveratrol so in the end the variety of leaves used would seem to make little difference unless they are consumed without cooking in any fashion.

Dave

Expensive? I have a Concord grape, it doesn't cost anything to grow -- the grapes are terrible though. It is not easy to grow grapes for fruit, IME. My parents and my uncle had grape vines and never got any edible grapes, but grew for the leaves.

Dave, I do appreciate your desire to be helpful and your knowledge on resveratol. I get the financial desparagement a lot. People don't undestand, really. It's easy to make assumptions based upon one's own financial accessibility. It is required of me to drive 1-1/2 hr round trip to buy the store-bought canned grape leaves. Also add that I am very poor. Most of the time I cannot even afford the gas (but lately the low gas prices have been great!) and when I lived in Tulsa, it was easy peasy to acquire even though the price is around $5 -$10 a jar. I do find the topic of resveratrol interesting because all the food items in which it is contained, I crave. It might also be the ingredients within the brine that I'm craving. At this point I am only guessing, but it's most likely something within the fermentation process that I need. I don't like most fermented foods, so I'm focusing on stuffed grape leaves.

I practice permaculture more than ordinary organic vegetable gardening. The intent is a self-sustaining vine and - as for grape varieties - that's not an easy task in Oklahoma.

Nancy, that sounds wonderful. I know I've seen grapevines on a distant neighbor's fence. I noticed its base was about 3" wide. I'll stop by and chat with its owner to find out details. Heck, they probably don't know the variety and that's okay if it'll survive here. I only just started out on this adventure and ya'll have been very helpful. At least I have a direction.

I have good soil in most places, so a plug and go will probably work! I bet I end up planting multiple varieties to see how it goes.

Chickencoupe, I became interested in growing grapevines and watched many videos on Youtube on how to train and prune them. I eventually visited a local vineyard and learned a lot. The owner was very nice and gave me a rooted cutting when it came time for him to order from his wholesale supplier. I now have a Cabernet Sauvignon grapevine in my backyard. I grow it mostly for the beauty in my garden and use the leaves to make stuffed grape leaves. It took 3 years to bear fruit, which I used to make grape juice. Visiting a vineyard was a great experience. There is one near Tulsa called Whispering Vines Vineyard. I bet if you give them a call or pay them a visit, they would be happy to share their knowledge with you.

We did actually buy a variety just for the leaves. Apparently someone's ancestor brought the vine with them from Lebanon. I just checked on the website of the place we bought it from and unfortunately don't see it now.

I use grape leaves in my dill pickles when I can them. The recipe calls for it so I use them.

@chickencoupe, I am finding myself in the same dilemma (but in Kansas). wondering what was the outcome of your search? did you indeed chat with your neighbor? I grew up in a Middle Eastern family in Canada, where the riverbank variety grows freely everywhere, is tender, is not ravaged by pest or disease, and requires zero maintenance. I recently purchased riverbank grapevine seeds, and will let you know how they grow…below is a picture from my grandmother’s garden.

Hey, Samuella I gave up on the endeavor until recently when some old seeds in ground volunteered a couple of vines. After identification, I see they are for a red wine version. I thought they would be killed with last winter's 10- day freeze, but nope.

Otherwise, I have a friend in tahlequah that grows muskadine varieties successfully. This encourages me, but I"m still not in a position to maintain a grape vine other than watching this volunteer grow in.

I think my volunteers are there because of a micro climate they are in. Somewhat sheltered. Curious stuff.

It certainly is! Best wishes with these volunteers; will also keep you posted on how my seeds do this year...