Thanks for the advice. I think the climate west of the 405 is the same as east of the 405 (both are valley). The difference is when you go south to the westside (which is cooler in the summer and doesn't get as cold in the winter). Of the two you suggested, I prefer the look of the Tif419. What type of maintenance does it require?

Tifway 419 , Tifgreen, Tifsport, GN-1 , are all popular bermuda types for your area. The biggest mistake most people make with these grasses , is letting them build up too much thatch. These grasses are extremely dense with stems and runners, which become so thick, that it cuts off air , light and water to the soil surface. The remedy is to scalp them down once a year, which seems like over kill, but this type grass really needs it. The turf regenerates very well after scalping! I like to scalp at the beginning of fall, because the renewed turf stays greener longer into the fall and winter. Also use a fertilizer high in iron in November , which also improves late season color. ( I use-' Ironite' liquid ) If you have a rotary mower, GN-1 might be a better choice. Its not quite as thatchy as some of the others. I think its available from Pacific sod in Camarillo. ......they deliver all over Southern Cal...... Bermuda sod this time of year, is often overseeded with ryegrass for improved winter color. The rye burns out in summer and the Bermuda takes over. I think Home Depot carries WIFI controllers now.

I've only had 419 & Bermuda triangle, but yeah... What Tom & DC said!

So, would you recommend a Bermuda over Marathon 1 sod?

Absolutely recommend bermuda over Marathon. Marathon is a water hog and will die back if your water restrictions get too bad. Bermuda will not die from lack of water. It might look dead, but it isn't.

If you really want bermuda to look great it needs to be mulch mowed low (1/2 to 1.5 inches) 2x per week (3x in the early spring when it comes out of dormancy), watered deeply once every 2 weeks in your area, and fertilized once per month with a high N fertilizer. Putting greens are made from a very similar variety of bermuda. If you mow yours lower than 1/2 inch it will begin to look that good. But that will require more frequent mowing to keep it really nice. When you let bermuda get upwards of 2 inches it thins out and allows weeds to get in.

About watering. The general consensus from all the lawn forums over the past decade is to water deeply and infrequently. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Measure that with your watch and some cat food or tuna cans placed around the yard. Time how long it takes to fill the cans with YOUR sprinkler system. Mine takes 8 full hours to fill. My neighbor's high flow system takes 20 minutes. Yours will be between those two. Infrequently means once per week when the temps get into the 90s, once every 2 weeks with temps in the 80s, once every 3 weeks with temps in the 70s, and once a month the rest of the year. This works in Phoenix so it will work in Studio City.

Marathon is good for just about everything except high traffic and dog yards.

Again I don't have a problem with well cared for Marathon, but in California, with their drought, I think it's inappropriate.

Now I understand what you mean when you say Bermuda is high-maintenance. My lawn is not going to be mowed 2-3x/week -- just once a week. Can, St. Augustine thrive with once/week mowing? Also, I don't want to use fertilizer, just organic lawncare.

It depends on the type of bermuda, and also the cutting height desired. Twice a week mowing is for lower cut hybrid bermuda , but a bigger leaf bermuda cut a bit higher, will be good at once a week. 'Bullseye' bermuda (west coast turf sod farms) would be such a bermuda. It stays nice and leafy green with mowing every 7 to 10 days.

Thanks for all the advice. Is Bermuda something that would be available now and could be planted now (December) or do I need to wait until Spring? How long do I need to keep my dogs off the lawn when it is first planted?

Yes, you can order it any time of year in So. Cal. .......colder areas of the country would have to wait till spring , but since you rarely get frost, the bermuda will root , even in the winter. ......and yes, the dogs can play immediately :-) Home delivery can only be done with 500 sq ft. or more. Less amounts must be picked up at a retail site. You will have to ask West coast turf where a pick up point is- near your neck in the woods.

West Coast Turf has three Bermudas in stock -- Bandera Bermuda, Tifway 419 OS, and Tifsport OS. Which is the least "high maintenance"? Can these be put in now? Will they be dormant during the winter?

Too bad about 'Bullseye' not being available, I really like that one! There are other options available- albeit more expensive. West coast turf also carries 'De anza' Zoysia grass , which is similar to bermuda in heat, drought tolerance , and over all toughness, but it needs far less mowing than bermuda, and some people even leave it un- mown for months at a time. They also carry 'Platinum' Paspalum , which has a lot of the traits of bermuda and zoysia, and can also handle periods of no mowing. If money is not an issue, I would choose Zoysia first. I didn't mention it before because the topic started off- Marathon vs Bermuda , and usually people choose between these two because of cost considerations. If you must go bermuda, Tifsport stays low to the ground better than the other two , but you must scalp once a year ( like i was describing in a earlier post) .

........also , the- "OS" after the bermuda name, means 'overseeded'. They overseed the bermuda with ryegrass in the fall, to make it more attractive over the winter months. Bermuda sometimes never loses its color in your zip code, but there are areas in So, Cal ( more inland areas) where it will turn completely brown in the winter.

Tif 419 is the standard, "contractor grade" bermuda that once was the premium grade grass. It still makes a great lawn. If you mow it once a week at about 1.5 to 2 inches, it will not be as dense as it would be if mowed twice at 1 or .75 inches. It will be very nice, but it might get a few more weeds.

Looking at the West Coast Turf website, it looks like they have renamed some of the standard turf varieties for their own use. Wonder why they would do that?

Overseeding for winter green is something the sports complexes can get away with fairly easily, because they are allowed to use different weed control chemicals. The problem with overseeding, especially in relatively cool climates, is the rye grass used to overseed will persist well into April and sometimes May. The shade cast by the rye onto the lower dormant bermuda keeps the bermuda from coming out of dormancy until later in the spring. That is a problem. I've seen overseeded lawns remain very thin throughout the summer when the rye was not killed out. It is much better if you can stand to let the bermuda go dormant. As Tom mentioned, it might not go dormant every year in your zip code.

I wouldn't say money is not an issue, but I only need 850 square feet. I could pick Zoysia if that would be the best option for me. If it gets patches that die out, is there a seed that I would use to fill in?

Some zoysias come as either seed or sod. You would have to check with West Coast Turf about what they carry. Not every sod farm grows every type of grass.

I would not use zoysia with dogs. Zoysia is very slow to repair itself it/when it gets damaged. The variety I have tried (Shadow Turf) would take until next April to repair itself no matter when in the growing season it was damaged. Any path the dogs wear into it will be apparent in just a few days and will persist a long time. With bermuda they may wear a path, but not nearly so permanent.

Something I have not mentioned is that bermuda loves the type of hot soil you would get if you were much further east or even north in the warmer part of the valley. Have you looked at St Augustine? St Augustine thrives best with temps in the 70s and 80s. It's a coarser type of blade, but it is much less work than bermuda. You can easily get away with mowing every other week (except for early in the spring flush of new growth), and it is mowed at the mower's highest setting. St Aug needs fertilizer 3x per year, although I have found for me (organic) it likes it 5x per year starting on Washington's Birthday (about 3 weeks before our 'last freeze' date).

Yep , St Augustine would be good for that area..........but reading the description of De anza, it looks like a very dense, hard wearing zoysia , so the wear trails would probably do like hybrid bermuda does when it gets walked on a lot- it gets even more dense, and tends to "hug" the ground closer. It gets kinda a putting green type look.

Just wanted to clarify the temperatures where I live. I am in the San Fernando Valley. Although there are parts of the valley that are hotter, it does get hot here in the summer (90-100) and the lows in the winter get cold (30-40).

St Augustine, bermuda,& zoysia are all naitive to hot parts of the planet , so no worries there! You don't get cold enough to permanently damage any grass type, so that's not a concern. Warm season grasses usually hold their color better in the winter if they are fertilized in fall. However even if not fertilized, they will not winter kill in your zone. Un-fertilized warm season grasses, simply lose their color sooner, or keep some color, but kind of drab and dull looking.

For my dog's domain, we used cheap Kentucky 31.

It will be the only thing living (besides cockroaches) in the aftermath of nuclear war.

Some in this forum will probably try to tell you that this is a poor choice for a lawn because its color is a tad lighter than other varieties.

This lawn is for your dogs, not a turf competition. Who cares if it isn't technically the best variety? Unless you want to spend x3 as much for seed every time you need to repair a patch or thin area, this is your best bet. Kentucky 31 is cheap and readily available at anynstorr near you that sells grass seed

Others might will stick their nose up at it because it's a "pasture grass." pasture grass survives being trampled beyond belief by cattle, horses, etc. while simultaneously being scalped with each bite they animals take. It will be more than enough to handle your dogs activities.

You're a little warmer than I expected, but not much. Are you quoting the high temps when the few days that the Santa Ana winds blow? Or will it get into the high 90s for weeks at a time? On a summer evening do you need a sweater? I lived much closer to the beach and needed a sweater every day of the year (except Santa Ana wind days). The cool evenings keep the soil cooler even with warm days. Bermuda likes it HOT. Even here in Texas I would not seed bermuda until June to ensure timely germination. Phoenix was 115+ every day for about a month this past August. Still in the evenings it cooled right down to about 95 or lower. Bermuda loves that. And with your relatively warm cool temps a St Augustine or bermuda may never go dormant.

Tom had a good point about the trafficked area of zoysia and bermuda forming a dense low turf. It's a clear path, but is not bare dirt.

owlnsr had a good point about the K31. K31 is a fescue called Kentucky 31. It was about the only fescue you could get in the 1940s. The newer hybrids were developed because people did not like some of its characteristics. He did a good job describing it. It's such a small portion of the discussion on this forum, I'm not sure how much water it takes - would it be good for California?

Thats a big yard where traffic is spread out over a large area. The yard in question, is less than 1,000 sq ft where the traffic will be concentrated in a confined space. Tall fescue will handle a lot of foot traffic, but not the heavy beat down of contant wear in the same spot......and also there is the issue of dead urine spots that cause problems for people with female dogs. There are new types of tall fescue that have lateral spread, but i have not seen any sold as sod in So. Cal...... Some sod farms here use KBG and Tall fescue mixed- as an alternative , because the kentucky blue will fill in dead spots.......albeit slowly.

Ky31 doesn't spread by rhizomes or stolons, but it does spread by tillars. The tillars will eventually become independent of the main grass plant and then produce tillars of their own. I just think of tillars as short rhizomes.

Again, KY31 will handle your dogs abuse. My female dog does urinate in the grass and it does damage it as expected, but it recovers quite well.

in fact, it's proving almost impossible for me to kill. When I first planted KY31, I didn't know anything about lawn care. It was my first home and when I moved in, the back yard was basically all mud. I picked Ky31 because it was the cheapest. After having such great success, and learning more about lawn care and turf, I've become somewhat of a lawn care nut.

I renovated my front lawn (that was mostly ryegrass and weeds) with Kentucky Bluegrass and Turf Type Tall Fescue. That looks amazing in comparison to my backyard KY31.

Late summer and early fall, I tried torturing the KY31 backyard. Repeated scalping during the heat, not watering in the heat of summer, rough rough raking with a detaching rake and shovel, etc. this was in preparation to overseed Titan RX, an improved variety of tall fescue.

after the overseeding on top of the overly abused KY31... The KY31 has survived. Hardly any of the Titan RX is present in the lawn. the seedlings were all choked out of existence.

im serious, I think KY31 will survive a nuclear apocalypse.

...which is why K31 is out of favor with the lawn care nut community.

It still wouldn't be able to handle certain types of abuse- such as high traffic in concentrated areas - on compacted soil. It would survive some what , but it would be quite ugly. I have seen the original Marathon ( which is a pretty big leafed tall fescue) in high traffic situations , and it doesn't do very well. Usually the heavy wear spots end up filling in with crabgrass, common bermuda, poa, and other assorted volunteers.

dschles what did you end up putting and how did it go? I live near Studio City, have 2 dogs and am having the same dilemma. Wondering what you chose...I'm considering St. Augustine

Thanks in advance

Has anyone considered native grass options for Los Angeles? I found this sod supplier http://www.deltabluegrass.com/sod-products/california-native-sod who creates mixes that look pretty but I'm wondering how they actually hold up in comparison to some of these non-native varieties

indigovivs, your question is going to be lost at the bottom of someone else's ancient and very long topic. For better attention you should start a new topic about growing native grasses in the Los Angeles area. But for YOU, it would really help to know what part of Los Angeles you live in, because Los Angeles county includes Pomona and Malibu. There's a lot of variation in microclimate all over the county.

Generally, though, non traditional, native grass lawns can be very successful when they are in exactly the right spot. For the grasses in the linked website, I would suggest that west of the 110 freeway would be much better than, say, east of 605.