raised panel or flat?

13 years ago

Attached is present kitchen and design for new kitchen and image of (overlay) cabinet front with molding and color that we are using. I am trying to decide 1)if I should add a raised panel to the doors and 2)If I can put the molding along the edge of the 36" drawers which will be stacked: 5", 10", 10". (i.e. molding would be around edges of drawers with nothing in center if we go with flat panel), or try something like attached photo of stacked drawers.
Thanks for ideas!

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PRO

Linda Mayo

13 years ago

last modified: 13 years ago

Did you do the rendering? Great job!
This kitchens has so many wonderful possibilities in detail. I love it.

I'll try to answer your questions. First I'd like to clarify some terms. Molding is applied to the outside of the door or drawer or the inside of the stile and rails. Stiles and rails are not applied to the door in most cases but are the door along with the inside panel which is either raised or flat. (See image) (image credit www.waltzcraft.com)

Door and drawer styles (as opposed to 'stiles') can be mixed in a kitchen but there should be some coherence between them. In the end, if it is done right, unless a person is really looking at the finer details, he/she won't even notice those differences. The whole kitchen will FEEL comfortable and right. Those differences though have a huge impact on that FEEL by giving it texture, depth and visual interest and harmony and will produce a flush of feeling. The average person won't know where that feeling comes from. They might interpret it as layout or color or 'taste' but it's much more than that. It's lies in bringing all different elements together and making them fit together like they belong together.

Now to address your question about drawers 5", 10" and 10". Whether you CAN use a raised panel or flat panel or whether you can use molding outside or inside the stiles and rails depends on the widths of the stiles rails. If the style you choose uses 2 1/4" stiles and rails, which is typical--one on the top and one on the bottom, that totals 4 1/2" inches, leaving only 1/2" for a flat panel. Obviously that would look ridiculous and be a catchall for dirt. So there are two ways to address this. If these cabinets are custom made (and I hope they are) you can have a solid blank on the 5" drawer or you can request that the rails be made thinner than the 10" drawer stiles and rails. If you were to go with 1 1/4" rails, that would add up to 2 1/2", leaving you 2 1/2" for a flat panel. A raised panel will not fit in 2 1/2". Your 10" drawers could have the normal 2 1/4" stile and rails and that would leave you with 5 1/2" for a flat or a raised panel. The 'raise' of the panel differs in different door styles. Between the stile and rail and the raised part of the door might be 1", 1 1/4", 2" etc. If you were to go with a 1" space to the raised part of the panel all around, the flat part of the raised panel would be 3 1/2" and perfectly acceptable. (10"-2 1/4"-2 1/4"-1"-1"). Notice that in the picture, the rail is smaller than on the door.

If you have a full overlay door, which means no part of the cabinet frame is showing, you will have more room to express the door style (The top drawer would be more than 5"). The more cabinet frame that is showing the smaller the drawers and doors. That would give you more options to use use the molding on the inside of the stiles and rails.

Do I understand correctly that the color of the whole kitchen is the silver distressed door? It looks silver on my screen. Is that actually the color?

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Comments (77)

PRO
Urbana Kitchens ~ Ellen Crystal ~ Designer
13 years ago
Sonoma tiles have the most exquisite medallions & inlaid textural patterns suitable for this kitchen ... this link to brochure is just a start.
http://www.sonomatilemakers.com/brochures/STM_9.pdf
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
One more fabulous company is White River Inc.
www.whiteriverinc.com
The rest of the pictures are from White River Inc.

Pic 1: appliques are used over the sink and refrigerator
White River Hardwoods 800-558-0119 | Kitchen Gallery | Hardwood Mouldings & Arch · More Info

Pic 2: over the sink. Also, carved legs are used on either side of the sink cabinet. They can also be used on either side of the stovetop cabinet, or on the island.
White River Hardwoods 800-558-0119 | Kitchen Gallery | Hardwood Mouldings & Arch · More Info

Pic 3: on either side of the open cabinet (in your kitchen, they could be used on either side of the island drawer cabinets.
White River Hardwoods 800-558-0119 | Kitchen Gallery | Hardwood Mouldings & Arch · More Info

Pic 4: Corbells (the carved braces on the left) and heavy legs on the left (Corbells could be used under the range hood while the heavy legs could be used on the island)
White River Hardwoods 800-558-0119 | Kitchen Gallery | Hardwood Mouldings & Arch · More Info

Not all of these components go together. But if a person likes one or two, other components can be picked out to match and bring everything together.
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PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
Vertical appliques would also fit on the doors on the island.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
I'm reinserting that last picture of the island because the heavy wooden leg on the other side didn't come through on the last try.
PRO
Keystone Cabinetry Inc. Since 1984
13 years ago
I will do a flat shaker style and slab drawer fronts.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
A hand painted range hood cabinet would also look good. This one is shaped different but a painting designed to fit the shape of yours would be nice.
Habersham Home / As fabulous as it is functional, this Habersham kitchen offers · More Info
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
Since you said you've decided to paint, I'm not sure if you're looking for suggestions about the backsplash. I think so. If not, please ignore this comment. I would look for a 4x4 tumbled marble, either in the marble you will be using or in a blue similar to the last picture I posted.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
My goodness, thank you so much for all of this!! So much to consider... The had painted range hood is really pretty. Maybe the painting is done after installation? (we're so pressured for decisions now so anything that can be done later is especially appealing!)
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Your welcome. The painting is done AFTER the cabinets are built and finished. This would be done by a professional in your area. Someone who does faux finish or Trompe-l'œil. You might be able to find one through the Chamber of Commerce in your areas or calling art associations on line. I believe the painting on the on above is done by the cabinet company itself. They are noted for their finishes and this particular style. The name of the company is Habersham and they are in South Carolina.
PRO
CMR Interiors & Design Consultations Inc.
13 years ago
I like the idea of a island that has less depth 3 doors instead of b, cuts off straight across with a banquet at the end and then a table and chairs....do you have room for this?
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
If you decide to put carved legs on either side of the cabinets under the stove, they can be made useful as pullouts, not just decorative elements.

I made the first one, but they can be purchased. Rev-A-Shelf makes the one in the second picture. Probably other companies do as well.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
You can find faux finishers in your area by clicking on "Find Local Pros" in the black bar above.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
The pullouts are brilliant. Thank you so much. Yours is gorgeous and looks more sturdy. I don't like spice racks on the inside of a cabinet door as currently planned. The problem is, I am working with a kitchen company, not directly with the cabinet maker. As you certainly know, even though they are paid handsomely, kitchen companies don't like going out of their way... I am going to try to face them down!!
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Thank you. There are two Rev-A-Shelf products for the pullout. They look the same. One fits a 3" space and one fits a 6" space. Hope that helps.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
The original flat vs. raised panel issue is still nagging me a bit, and I also have a new important question about the molding on the drawers of the island. The island question first: If you look again at the molding in the photo above for the island, please notice how thick it is. I've been planning on doing the INSET doors exactly as per the photos, and I also have been planning to put the molding around the edges of all the drawers. I like the heavy "furniture" feel of this for this island, but I'd like reassurance that the molding on the drawers that way isn't overkill.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Forgot to mention that the side of the island by the table will be bead board, as per the rendering submitted at the beginning of the discussion.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Here is a photo of the drawer suggested for this door design
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
So if I understand correctly, the manufacturer is suggesting this. Drawer on top, door on bottom. (enlarge picture by moving mouse over it) Please excuse the cut up look--I was trying to manipulate it with Windows Paint.

If that is the case, you have a flat panel on the top and a raised panel on the bottom. The moldings appear to be quite different. Are you saying this is the drawer that the manufacturer suggests with that door?

Cost might be an issue, but if the manufacturer is willing to do it, do you think you would prefer to have the drawer look the same as the door (turned sideways) except with a flat panel? so that the moldings would look the same? The 'meat' around the outside of the drawer should be thinner than the door, so there would be enough flat panel on the inside.

This drawer is different than the blue doors at the top. Is the picture of the blue drawers at the top just to show that the cabinet style is 'inset'? or do you actually prefer the way the drawer front looks?
PRO
Pyramid Design Group Architects
13 years ago
Those are all personal preferences-- so I won't advise here--But one observation ! you have choosen white marble for countertops--looks great in the showroom and in magazines--HOWEVER MARBLE STAINS--IF YOU SPILL RED WINE...THAT IS WHY GRANITE IS A MORE PRACTICAL CHOICE.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
I haven't tried it on marble but white wine takes the red stain out of carpet. It would be interesting to try this on a piece of marble.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Sorry this is confusing. Please let me start all over again. Please imagine a drawer above the door in the island. The door is the same as the photo I submitted again here. The molding on this door is fairly heavy. Do you think its ok to put the molding on the edges, or the perimeter of the drawers? Thanks so much, in advance, for your opinion.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Sorry again. I just re-read your comments and you said the molding on the door does work on the drawer, but it should be "scaled down" a bit. Here's the problem: I'm not working with the actual cabinet maker (unfortunately! if I were able to start all over again with what I know now, I would be!). I am working with a kitchen company that makes quality cabinets (actually the line is called "Quality"... similar to a line like "Rutt"). They make some custom adjustments but not every adjustment. The door they normally sell with this particular door style is the one I submitted two posts ago. I asked if they could put the same molding around the perimeter of the drawer that is on the door and they will. I doubt they will be scaling it down though. That's why I'm asking if you think it will be too big.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
I just saw a typo: I meant the drawer they normally sell with the door style...
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
And now I think I understand what you are saying and the image you made with "paint". You are suggesting to put the molding toward the center, leaving enough room in the center for the raised panel. I guess the molding on the drawer doesn't have to line up with the molding on the door exactly. So you don't mean to scale down the molding, but just move it in away from the edges.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Actually, I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly. You were using the blue top drawers just to show that the drawers would be on the inside the cabinet, not on top of it.

Here is a diagram showing what I see in my mind when you speak of molding on the drawer.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
the door model is Venice BI. The perimeter door model is Newbury FO. I can't thank you enough for your help. They will put the molding on the perimeter of the door of the Venice even though they don't show it that way.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Sorry to make things difficult by my lack of true understanding of cabinets. I showed the blue drawers above as examples I'd like to consider. I didn't understand that one molding was on top and one was "part of the door". However, the drawer style I like a lot is the one with molding on top as per your explanation. My concern is that the venice molding is very heavy to be on top around the edges, but I think I will go with it anyway. I'd love your opinion.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
My understanding is they can make the drawers in the "door style" or put the molding "on top". I hope that makes sense.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
The first picture is a drawer where the molding was put on top. It is applied like a border around a flat drawer front. It is the same as the TOP drawer in the blue picture you posted.

The other two drawers are just regular drawers except the same piece of molding was put on on the top of the drawer is now the inside of a part of a drawer.They are like the SECOND and THIRD drawers in the blue picture you posted on top. The second picture shows you how they did this.

Do I understand correctly that the look you want is like the second and third drawer down on the blue picture you posted? So that it looks thicker around the edge of the drawer?
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Tech problems also!!! The drawer in your photo above and the top drawer in the photo of blue drawers that I sent is the look I hoped would look ok even though the Venice molding is rather thick. Do you think it would work? Just as a reminder: the doors and drawers in the island are inset (with a beaded edge). Thank you so much, again, for your patience and great ideas even though I am having trouble conveying the information clearly.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
If this is the drawer that goes with the door that you are purchasing, I would NOT put another piece of molding around the edge. It would look very busy.

If you wanted it to look thicker around the edge like in the blue picture you posted, I would suggest that you:

1). Ask them if they can make a 10" door in the style you have chosen. If they can do that, then you should be able to get a 10" drawer that looks just like the door with either a raised or flat panel.

2) The top drawer is too small to do that. Just as in the blue picture you have posted. If you look close you will see that it is different. That's because it's too small to do what they did on the bottom two drawers. You can get a 'flat panel' drawer front, just like the top drawer in the blue picture--where molding was applied around the outside (and if they do that, it should look like the same molding they used on the doors you have picked).

If they can't do those things, I would stick with what they have recommended to go together.

Hope that helps.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Yes, I think the Venice molding would work as far as looks go. It would look GREAT! except-the Venice molding is not flat on the bottom so unless they have a molding like the Venice that is flat on the bottom they won't be able to do it--never hurts to ask!!

As far as the cabinets being inset in design, they would have to hold back the drawer front a little bit from the front of the cabinets if the molding was too deep so that the molding was what was flat or nearly flat against the edge of the cabinet.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Just to be SURE I'm understanding correctly could. We just talk about the "brown" door I put up that has molding and a raised panel (Venice ). I think you just said in your last comment that the Venice molding would look great on top of the perimeter of the drawer just like the brown drawer in the photo you showed me? They said they can definitely do that. They will also put a raised panel on the drawers big enough for it. Your word of approval? :-)
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
Oops sorry, I was looking at your perimeter doors.
We're making progress though.

On the brown drawers. is this what you would like the bottom two drawers to look like?
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Is this what you had in mind?
Fabulous. Very unique. I love it! I compliment you for your vision and Quality for offering this style.

The top drawer looks squashed--that is why the trim looks narrower on the top and bottom--but I think this is enough to get the idea.

I would definitely ask for a mock up though to make sure it is exactly what you are looking for and that the trim is handled the way you envision it. The mock up should include the cabinet front and three drawer fronts. It will cost something for the mock up but would definitely be worth it. If you are paying for the mock up, tell them you want to keep it. That way you will have it to compare other purchases with for color and style.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
To answer your question about the cabinet being inset. Yes, this will work. The outside of the trim should be level (in my opinion) with the front of the cabinets. They may think differently about that and you may like their interpretation (good reason for a mock up). The only drawback with trim on inset drawers is that the drawer box itself will have to set back into the cabinet, making it a tad shorter. I would ask them for full extension slides. If they don't come with the drawer anyway. There is also a full extension slide that has a soft close feature. I believe Accuride makes it.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
YAY now we have it!!! You are wonderful for sticking with me given my weakness in terminology! I am so happy, I can't tell you... I really wanted this molding on ALL the drawers in the kitchen, but they seem to work best with inset cabinets.

So now, if we go back to talking about the perimeter doors and drawers again, the drawers are designed like the door fronts: molding "centered" with flat panel. I considered putting the molding on the perimeter of the drawer (like the island drawers) ONLY on the TOP drawers along the perimeter EXCEPT the three drawers under the cooktop. After drawing them both ways (which I kept erasing unfortunately), I thought the drawers looked best all the same, like the door fronts. You're great at mixing styles. What do you think?
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
I'm thrilled! It's a pleasure to work out a challenge and to be of help. When you get the mock-up, it might be a good idea to try some pulls/knobs on them just to make sure you are comfortable with the space. No need to buy them or screw them in. Just take the mock up in the store and hold one up to it (If it's not in a package) Just to get an idea of what it will feel like space-wise. Most are around 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" between the surface of the drawer and the outside of the knob/pull but can vary considerably.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Now I have another idea for the perimeter. I'll draw it and put it up tonight, but if you look at the first rendering I put up, I'm considering putting a raised panel on all drawers except the top row, of course.
So that means the 4 drawers on the left of the sink, the same 4 drawers that will be put on the dishwasher which is to the left of the sink, and the 2 bigger drawers below the cooktop. What do you think? :-)
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
I would be pretty but you would have to ask Quality if they were able to do that. Each drawer style requires a different amount of height in a drawer front to be able to fit the raised panel in it. I love the idea of covering the dishwasher with a cabinet front. I was actually going to suggest that to you.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
I would use a hand blown antique glass for this kitchen. It is a clear glass but has clear lines in it from being hand rolled and give it a slight clear texture or a modern manufactured glass lookalike.
lc29
13 years ago
Just my 2 cents here, your kitchen doesn't appear to be all that large, beware of using really thick moldings as they will make the the space seem "closer".
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Along with putting the false drawer fronts on the dishwasher it would also look so nice to put cabinet doors on your refrigerator. That would help offset the detailed molding making the space seem closed in. The more elements you can harmonize, the better. There is another place, along with the hood that a handpainting or faux finish could be used. I'd suggest though that if you did that, to use something that doesn't stand out to the eye but adds to the overall feel. If you decide to go there I have some inspiration pictures for you.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
to help unify and offset space issue, covering brushed stainless refrigerator makes sense, though I always resisted this due to expense and... "a kitchen is a kitchen... why pretend its not a refrigerator" but also truth is, brushed stainless is a pain to keep clean. BUT now what do I do with molding on this? The company probably has a standard way of handling this... but your way is probably better :-)
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Yes, it does cost more and the refrigerator has to be one manufactured to be able to accept the door. Were you going to replace the refrigerator anyway or use one you have?

Quality's way of handling it has probably been designed to fit the product line they have designed and may be a great one. Before deciding though, you'd have to nail down the perimeter design. If you decide to put the cabinet door on one, I would suggest thinking about matching it with the perimeter cabinets. Just a suggestion.
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
I definitely will match with perimeter cabinets (flat panel) and find out how quality handles this. My guess is they would make adjustments, but I'll check it out next week and get back... :-)
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
eagledzines (and others!): Here is the NEW color for the perimeter cabinets/drawers. I'm also sending a photo of the new color/cabinet next to the island cabinet door to see if you still think these work together well.
PRO
Linda Mayo
13 years ago
Gorgeous!
wowww
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks! The "new blue" is so elegant I worried that the wood on the island is too "heavy". Now I'm going to take a leap and go for it. Please stay tuned. I have no idea what to do about lighting and I'm not ready to tackle it yet, but will be soon...
fiskelove
11 years ago
That blue color is sooooo beautiful!!!! What is it? I'm getting new cabinets and would love to use this color!