I am a current owner of a Wolf DF 36" range. You did not mention if you were looking at AG or DF. We were interested in both the BS and Wolf DF when I got mine. We eventually chose the Wolf primarily because of the oven and Wolf's supposed great service. I needed the wide broiler and liked the range of choices when baking. The convection fan speed is variable vs on/ off on the RNB and the different modes allow more heat from the bottom or top while baking or roasting. It has worked very well in that respect. The range top has been great for me in that it has adequate BTUs for everything I cook. Some want high BTUs so if that is the case, go with BS. I never have mine turned up all the way even if searing steaks with a cast iron skillet and it gets hot enough to vaporize oil. The capped burners have worked well with my cookware. I do especially like the low range of heat available and control of the burner. I haven't had to use a double boiler since I got thus range. The new DF burners do have a higher BTU rating but not sure how much flare they have as they are capped. The AG range, as someone else on this forum put, is sort of the red headed step child. It used to have a semi sealed burner tray that broke down for cleaning. It now has burners like mine. Unfortunately it is the oven in my range that has become unusable in most circumstances. Their reputation for "great service" has not been so great.

I now find myself considering BS again to replace it. If I can, I would like to get the BS range top only and put in an additional wall oven. That way I can pick the best of each. Not sure if I would ever use the high heat but I liked the star shaped burners with CI skillets. I most likely will have to replace the range though as my cabinets would require reworking and I am not sure I can match the wood. The I think the RNB is probably a better fit for me over the platinum. I prefer the conventional placement of the element on the bottom rather than the back wall and with the platinum, the convection fan is on every time the oven burner comes on so you do not have any standard bake mode. Many recipes need the heat from the bottom. A gas oven is more drying to what you are baking anyway so to not have the option of turning the fan completely off would not work for me.

As far as a griddle, I prefer an overlay so that I can use different kinds for different applications. I have had for years an uncoated thick aluminum griddle that had become well seasoned. When I bought the bigger range, I gave it to my sister but replaced it with one from Royal Industries. The aluminum is far superior to steel or cast iron for heat transfer so heats very evenly even though you are using ring burners. It can also be bigger(15x23=340sq inches vs 11.5x23=264.5) but is much lighter in weight. It responds much more quickly to turning the heat up or down. You can also get them with nonstick coating. The bare ones season but take longer than CI or steel. Sometimes though you might like the zones of heat with CI or steel so you have that option. Chef King is popular on this forum for something like that. There are also overlays that are more fitted which might give a little more stability. I did intend to buy a Chef King but when I was at the store to buy it, I could hardly pick it up. An overlay would also allow much more heat as you can place it over 2 burners. Both Wolf and BS built in griddles have only 15K BTUs on the 2 burner size. An overlay would allow 30K BTUs at the least.

Two things to consider:

You mention you are concerned with ease of cleaning. I have the 6" ss backsplash and that is the only part of the BS that is sometimes a pain to clean - if I don't wipe splatters down after cooking and they get heated on, it becomes a baked-on scrubbing chore. If you note willtv and tamaranc's photos both show the island trim and glass tile - far easier to clean and it will actually provide a little better depth for, say, a 12-13" fry pan to clear. It's probably the way I would go on a do-over (with proper fire retardant backing) making sure I stuck with a grout color that wouldn't show discoloring.

I also have a VAH and went with the dual heat lamps. I don't see many folks opting for these but they constantly come in handy - from the standard holding food temp during prep to getting butter soft to keeping your takeout bag warm for a few minutes. I mounted fold-down wire shelves (Viking SS backsplash shelves and clips) under each so that air flow to the hood wasn't impeded as would be by a fixed solid shelf. The wire shelves when folded down stick out further than the standard solid backsplash shelf and work great as an ingredient staging area or a quick cooling rack.

Stevep .. do you have a photo of your shelf set up? I have the VAH with heat lamps and a Wolf 48" and need to come up with something for shelving.

Here's a quick snapshot. Back then, I had a heck of a time finding the wire shelves not attached to a full SS backsplash. From the depths of my 2006 archives, it looks like Viking CS finally lead me to the following:

Distributor: Faxon Sales @ 800-995-5056
Warming shelf rack - #10028, MSRP = $36.40 ea
Upper clip - #10089 (one per shelf), MSRP=$5.80 ea
Lower clip - #10089 (two per shelf), MSRP= $5.80 ea
Shipping cost is additional
Wind Crest
CNP Industries, Inc.

Excellent. And, as a follow up - are you happy with the strength of the attachment? did you do anything special to reinforce under the tile (very pretty btw.)

Thanks nightowl. I've been using those for nine or so years without issues. And I've had some decent weight on them. Sometimes I bridge the gap with a small cooling rack if I need a wider surface.

There's no way I can remember the installation details nine years back... but through the magic of Yahoo mail, I found a piece of an old GardenWeb post on how we pulled it together:

"Because the odds were against hitting studs at all

three screw/clip points, we added plywood in the

drywall to catch the screws.

We marked out the shelf and clip locations. Measured

down an inch from the underside of the hood and an

inch and a half (or so) in from the side. I basically

looked at how the integrated shelves are positioned

from photos, and did the same. My tile guys installed

the shelves by first mounting the shelves where they

belong, removing the shelves and clips, and partially

screwing the screws back in. They then tiled as

normal and hand cut & shaped the tiles around the

screws. Did a great job. Once grouted (epoxy) and

cured, I removed the screws and mounted the shelves.

Tip - be sure to tape the screw heads during tiling.

I added little clear rubber/plastic dots to the bottom

contact points to protect between the SS and glass

(when folded open) but they don’t stick to the SS

well. I need to find clear rubber tubing to serve the

same function but haven’t gotten around to it."

jerry4139:

Had an AG Wolf for over 10 years and have cooked on Bluestar; currently have Capital (DF). You don't say if you have any specific types of cooking you do, but concur fully with above comments about differences in burner power. BS wins hands down, especially for high heat stuff like stirfry and panbroiliing. Don't know if you meant a riser or backsplash, we had high (21") SS riser with shelf on the Wolf. Does shield the tile, but the rear burners scorched the riser's base (common occurrence I've seen). I liked the look and the shelf for warming lights in our VH but opted for more open look on the next kitchen.

nightowl

Here's another shelf config for warming lights. I wanted more of a landing area than the two shelf arrangement than stevep2005's setup (which I really liked) so put in a commercial SS shelf with adjustable height, lifts off for cleaning and holds a lot of weight. Concur with Stevep2005 on uses of warming lights and he's right about the airflow to the hood. The wire shelves allow for more air movement than did my shelf on the Wolf.

Thank you both. Definitely the direction I want to go in. Thank you so much for the help. We have the wall exposed so no problem reinforceing behind before we install the shelving. The VP does not want a SS backsplash. Does anyone know where I might be able to find something like the up and down shelves below?

The shelves I posted above are fold up/down like you have pictured (I just have them both down in my photo) - you can try that distributor -Faxon, they still appear to exist when I google them.

Broan sold theirs separately for a time (too late for me) but I couldn't find it today on a quick search. Maybe a parts place can get those. VAH has a partial top-down unit that would allow you to have tile from the stove up to the bottom of the shelves, then SS and the wire shelves north up to the hood. And again, maybe VAH would parts just the shelves and clips out to you.

For some reason, while tile back splashes have become popular, functional shelve solutions have not - even after all this time. You re going to have to work at it a little, but I'd start with Faxon since that worked for me.

Thank you again. On tomorrow's task list.

Another vote for the BS. I've had a 36" RCS Costco version for over a year now and no problems other than finding the broiler small. I had a Wolf cooktop previously and keeping that matte stainless bottom clean was killing me. Wolf does win for very low simmering but I rotate the grates on the BS so they sit a bit higher and it works out fine. The oven does take some time to heat up but since I use it nearly every second day I guess it doesn't bother me. I will be installing electric wall ovens so I'm sure I'll be using the big oven less.

I'm planning to replace the 6" trim with the island trim for a cleaner look plus I've already scorched the trim and it's a pain to clean that. Good luck with your pick!

Hey fabbric. Have you adjusted your burners to get a really low simmer on them? I did that to all of mine and even the 22k burners simmer low enough to cook a half cup of rice. The 15k burners go even lower.

Unfortunately you cannot compare the simmers between Wolf, BS and the CC, as BS and CC rate theirs in the ambiguous temperature. You only have the anecdotal comments that the summer is low. I wish the manufacturers would publish the low end of the BTU rating as they do the top end.

@george1498 I haven't adjusted the simmer. Is that when you take the knob off and adjust the screw? I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it and will fix that tomorrow.

Jerry-- Is there a reason you're not considering Capital? I currently have a Wolf AG , circa 2009, and am planning a renovation in a newly purchased home. I have really enjoyed the Wolf, but dislike the small, central flame on the low and simmer settings. This is moot for you since they are no longer selling those semi-open burners. Perhaps more significantly, because I want to go to true open burners and their higher btu output, I'm currently trying to decide between BS and Capital (not yet sure if rangetop or full range). Any particular reason Capital isn't on your shortlist?

@fabbric. Yea, that's what I was talking about. Really makes a big difference on the simmer and doesn't affect the high heat at all. You won't have to rotate the grates anymore.

Stevep - thank you again. As an update for anyone who stumbles onto this information. Faxon no longer sells these parts. But, they kindly provided me with the CNP sales number. Amazingly, the prices are the same as 10 years ago. Great service.

Warming shelf rack - #10028, MSRP = $36.40 ea
Upper clip - #10089 (one per shelf), MSRP=$5.80 ea
Lower clip - #10089 (two per shelf), MSRP= $5.80 ea
Shipping cost is additional (was around $11 for me)
Wind Crest
CNP Industries, Inc. - 1-877-387-6721

Question - I have a 54" space. Should I have ordered 3 shelves?

"Should I have ordered 3 shelves" - well, you have only two heat lamps, so you're looking more for holding space rather than warming. For the extra $50, if you can get it in this same order, and don't mind NOT installing the 3rd (and eating the $50) once you see how it looks, then I'd say go for it because once you install the tile it will be too late.

Go ahead and mount two on the bare plywood (if thats how you are doing it), and then add the third and get a feel for both configurations. There aren't many opportunities in the kitchen remodeling game where testing out your options in your actual home will come so cheap.

And like I mentioned, I sometimes bridge my two shelves with a half cooling rack so I do find use of the extra space. Bridging 54" with dishes or what-have-you might be adding too much weight on two shelves however.

Thanks. I went ahead and ordered a third. We blocked between the studs with plywood. There is a pipe back there we will have to work around, but it should be fine. TY again.

OP - I apologize for not being responsive to your question. We installed a Wolf 48" DF with charbroiler a few weeks ago. We haven't had a chance to do much due to ongoing kitchen work and real life, pay for this kitchen, work. The original plan was a BS with griddle, but the Wolf presented itself at a great discount and that made it too hard to pass up. We have no regrets at this point. That said -

I made chocolate chip cookies tonight and they cooked evenly at 375 in the large oven, middle shelf. The oven fan is audible, but not too loud.

We've tested all the burners and are happy with the results. No woking yet on the 20K, but we've boiled water and it was fine. I put butter on the 9.2 low; it softened nicely and never burned.

We had a party for 40 a few days ago and BBQ'd, so that was outside low and slow. However, I put a pork butt in the oven to keep warm and tested the oven probe vs. our BBQ probe and they agreed. We made baked beans and potato salad. The hamburger and onions fried up fine. The potatoes boiled fine. We like the knobs; they are intuitive. We kept some of the BBQ warming in the large oven and some drippings got on the oven floor - cleaned up just fine.

In a few days, we are entertaining a few folks and will consider that meal its maiden voyage - Nothing fancy pants though. Simple, winter stuff. Menu is Thomas Keller's last supper chicken; smashed lemon, garlic, rosemary potatoes; arugula, strawberry, and feta with lemon poppy seed dressing; and- tah dah - flourless, chocolate cake. I will also use the charbroiler to grill some corn and jalapeno for hummus.

I will report back if you would like.

I will report back if you would like.

Pics or we won't believe you :-)

BBQ

Breakfast this morning - banana's and oatmeal

I made the cake tonight. I think I beat it too much, but it should deflate a bit as it cools.

Charbroiler'd corn and jalapeno for hummus. This was FUN. I had planned to get a griddle, but fate intervened. I must say, I can always pull out a griddle, but firing up the grill takes time and running back and forth isn't the best when 100 things are happening at once. We won't do burgers on this, but I already have the next grilled veggie course planned. And, I found a recipe for grilled pizza that looks amazing.

Hummus, poppy seed salad dressing, herb/butter for roast chicken.

Wow, Nightowl. Wow. I think I speak for all of us reading this thread: we want to come to your house. Love seeing the charbroiler in use.

Just got 36" bluestar platinum rangetop & I'm LOVING it. Cooks so quickly & evenly in the pan- no hot spots. My sis has a 48״ wolf that cooks nicely too, but there is something so beautiful about that blue ״star". I've used the griddle & really liked it too.

Jealous of the charbroiler Nightowl - that's the only (appliance) choice I would change with my kitchen 10 years later - go with a 48" 6 burner charbroiler range top BS instead of the 36" 6 burner - cabinet space be dammed. One tip (or not) on the grilled pizza, especially if you want to have a few doughs stretched out and ready to go in advance. I prep and start it on parchment on the grill for a minute or two till the dough firms up enough to get a peel or large turner under to slide out. Makes it much easier to pre prep and handle and, on the grill at least, the parchment has never torched on me.

Thanks Stevep - re parchment. I didn't take a picture of the salad or potatoes, but here is the herb/butter/lemon chicken. Last supper chicken is a winter regular around here. Tonight - roast chicken leftover and rice soup. (not the best glamour shot!)

...and chicken tacos on the Bluestar

stevep2005 - SOS - Three shelves arrived and are perfect for the space. Thank you! Can you please take a close up of the top clip? Do we position it so the shelf goes over it, or under it to secure in place?

Glad they are working out. It clips under.

Thank you !

Hey Stevep2005 -- THANK YOU !!!

Yum, nightowl! This thread is making me seriously hungry.....as well as wanting a BS 48 range

Here is my BS 36" Platinum with my old, recycled Vent-A-Hood 36" with heat lamps and drop down shelves. I really like the heat lamps and drop down shelves. The stainless drop down unit is a separate option. They take the place of a warming drawer and free up my ovens for cooking. It's a professional application. I don't know why this isn't seen in more residential kitchens.

I know that by this time the original poster has made his decision. While I haven't had both ranges, I've had both range tops. I have a professional background, too. I've cooked on everything.

I selected the Bluestar. Three reasons, open burners, more powerful burners and the shape of the burner. I much prefer the star-shaped burner to the double ring. I think it provides a better, more even and efficient cooking surface.

There was a time when Wolf could compete with anyone on the market. Since the merger with Sub-Zero and the decision to migrate to closed burners, they no longer produce the best residential unit.

Good thread.

I hope you guys can help me with my decision. I am trying to decide between a 48" Wolf w/ grill and a 48" Bluestar w/ grill.

Many issues here. I am coming from a 7yr old Bluestar 30" RNB that has had two door replacements and has charred my cabinets which has resulted in our redoing the kitchen.

I love the open burners and the oven size of the Bluestar, I hate the problems we have had and think the oven doors are still poorly designed and light (compared to the Wolf).

My wife likes the Wolf all gas (for simplicity and price) but I worry about the relatively low powered sealed burners and the smallish oven.

I like the Wolf dual fuel for the higher powered burners, the heated dual convection and the various oven cooking modes but am scared of the blue porcelain, the sealed burners and the possibility of electronics failure.

We don't have room for a range top and wall ovens so a range it has to be.

Thanks

Loving my open burners on the bluestar- I only have rangetop so can't help you on the ovens... BUT I would definitely prefer dual fuel if I had your situation. I have cooked on my sister's new wolf cooktop and it was great, almost as good as the bluestar. I say go for wolf because I hate gas ovens.

We have cooked on coils, glass tops, induction, open and closed gas, outdoor grills, camp fires, Coleman camp stoves, etc. IMHO -- we can cook on anything and people walk away happy. the big question is our enjoyment doing it.

Our original plan was a 48" BS with griddle. Fate intervened and we now have a shiny new 48" wolf dual fuel with grill. super happy and 5K saved. No complaints. The Wolf front burners are just fine -- 1 20K and 2 18K in front. The simmers on each is great!

We are not bakers, but so far cookies are just fine and other stuff roasts and bakes just fine. The probe seems accurate.

The grill has been a fun surprise. We really wanted the 48" for the real estate to move pots around, so the griddle seemed like a good idea as we could have used it as a bit of a french top. But, we have used the grill a few times for corn, jalapeno, other peppers, and salmon and had a good time and it sure saved us from running out to the patio to check on the outdoor grill.

I can't say anything negative about a BS as I don't have one, but I can't say anything negative to date about the Wolf.

Thanks dietitian and nightowl, both helpful comments. Now if I could only save $5K off the range....

I know this is an old thread, but can someone show a picture of how the bottom clips attach? @stevep2005 @nightowl? TIA!

I am going back and forth with my cook top and wall oven decision and cant make up my mind. My plan as of now is a Bluestar 36 Platinum range top and Wolf E series double wall oven. I really want to go with the Bluestar gas, electric combo but I have read so many non positive things I'm shying away from that decision. Anyone have an updated opinion on this matter? Thank you in advance,

I would avoid Wolf electric ovens. They continue to have problems with the blue enamel chipping. It has been going on for over 10+ years.

I’ve been assured this problem has been corrected on any currently production models. Let me know if you have heard anything different. Ty.

Representatives from the company have been saying for years-

“It is cosmetic”. Shards of glass coming off the liner mixed with a convection fan, is not cosmetic.

”I have never heard of it happening.”

http://www.wolfblueovenchipping.com/case-information/

”It only has affected a very small number of appliances” and yet some here have had three or more in a row that failed.

“It was fixed years ago.” Last case in this forum was reported this year on an induction range. Previously Wolf has brought oven after oven during the full warranty time. They gave this person a hard time. The “M” oven was designed to make it easier to repair. It has been affected too. One tactic Wolf has used in the past is to upsell if possible when people have issues with something like the “E” oven. They get them to pay the difference to buy an M knowing it has the same issues and these fail too..

Even if they had the fix tomorrow, it would take several years to know if it really worked because some go bad after the warranty is out. This happened to me and they would not give me an estimate to repair, only that it would start at $800. I have read of repairs costing $2500.

I personally have had issues with blue enamel in Dacor, Electrolux and Wolf so I would not buy blue in anything except Gaggenau.

Thank you for the response, do you have a recommendation for a double wall oven in the same class as the Wolf E series, thankful in advance.

The million dollar question. Other than the chipping, I love my Electrolux. I can’t really recommend it though because they have changed quite a bit since I bought mine. It was acting up and I was thinking of replacing it with a Bosch, 800 series.

I cant really recommend because I haven’t used these yet but I would look at these.

GE/Monogram has a new feature in some its ovens which is “direct air”. This is a convection fan that brings air from the top in some settings. I think that is interesting because that would be helpful in roasting, where a chicken or something is in a high sided toaster that blocks airflow in a lot of convection ovens.

Consider also ovens that give more control. Miele and Gaggenau both have modes to control direction of heat and airflow. The most control would be a combi oven that also controls humidity. For instance, if you are baking bread, it might inject steam for 20 min and then very low humidity for the rest of the baking time to encourage browning. These used to be much smaller but some come in larger sizes and have broilers. You might consider stacking one of these with a regular oven instead of a double oven.

@stevep2005 @teachmkt1

I'm stealing your idea for my kitchen remodel. Thank you for the pictures and details!

I looked at BS, CC and thermador and ultimately decided on a AG Wolf 48inch range top with 24inch griddle with separate wall oven. Excellent customer service in my area, cast iron griddle and great simmer. Blue Star and CC are both nice but, are much too powerful for my house. I'm not running a restaurant or a catering biz. I'm cooking for 2-8 people. Also, I live in hot and humid city and having all those BTUs letting off all that heat in my kitchen was a no go!